Tongan Language Course

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Postby ego » 2005-04-13, 18:45

Welcome then, nice having you here. Are you new in UniLang? Tell me some things about you if you like. Do you already speak any Tongan?

DONT HAVE ONE

FAKA TONGA

Postby DONT HAVE ONE » 2005-06-22, 22:59

I THINK THAT ITS COOL WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE TEACHING THE TONGAN LANGUAGE!! I KNOW A LOT OF TONGAN PEOPLE I EVEN DANCE WITH SOME. THEY ARE VERY INTERESTING PEOPLE WITH A UNIQUE CULTURE. I READ A LOT OF YOUR LESSONS AND WERE HELPFULL FOR ME I KNOW SOME WORDS ALREADY BUT WITH YOUR TRANSLATIONS I WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MORE OF WHAT THEY ARE SAYING!!! AND NOT HAVE TO ASK WHAT THAT WORD MEANS


ERICA IN CALIFORNIA

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Postby ego » 2005-06-24, 7:45

Thanks for your kind words :D . I am jealous that you have Tongan friends. I never met any Tongans in my life :( . I'll be glad to help you any time. Cheers

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Postby ego » 2005-09-02, 14:35


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Postby Ariki » 2005-10-06, 11:18

I'm sorry I didn't read this earlier, wonderful!

I already recognise some of the words :D
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby Ariki » 2005-10-07, 23:45

After my long hiatus from studying this language, I'm back now, and I want to take full advantage of this course that you have crafted carefully my friend.

I have a few questions relating to grammar however, and I hope these won't be too hard for you.

‘Oku mohe ‘a e tamasi‘í


You've mentioned that (I can't type stress on my keyboard unfortunately) with `a being focussed.

Now, if the boy is being 'focussed', does that mean it would be more correct to say in English (for translation means) the boy is sleeping there?

I'm just trying to augment the explanation that you have of the Tongan language in to what I know is applicable for Māori (NZ and CI).

Btw about 'fonua' taking the article.

All the nouns which have been described as 'self defining', come under the 'locatives' category for NZ Māori and CI Māori. Locatives do not take articles, and if they do, it alters the meaning of the locative base. For example -

Mai runga (NZ Māori) and Mei runga (CI Māori) which translate as 'from above'. It could be explained, that you don't say in English 'from the above' and hence there are no articles used with locative bases (this would only apply to NZ Māori and CI Māori).

But to say 'from the land' (in terms of direction) it would have to be said - mai te whenua / mei te `enua. This is because the base word 'whenua/`enua' is not a locative base.

Is it also, obligatory to have to`o prefixed to hema and mata`u for left and right? I have heard a case of an eldery Tongan man saying 'vahe hema!' (left foot).

Sorry for these questions...I pray that you may be able to point me in the right direction.

aroha nui!
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby ego » 2005-10-12, 21:56

Wow, now these are questions! Although my confidence with Tongan is much lower than 6 months ago, since I once more forgot many things having no one to practice, I'll try to respond.

riki wrote:Now, if the boy is being 'focussed', does that mean it would be more correct to say in English (for translation means) the boy is sleeping there?


Where is this "there" coming from? The focus marker here just denotes what would be the subject in an equivalent English construction. In other paradigms it could denote the object. But still I don't understand why you put that "there".

riki wrote:I'm just trying to augment the explanation that you have of the Tongan language in to what I know is applicable for Māori (NZ and CI).


I wouldn't do that if I was you. Tongan seems much more distinctive than Eastern Polynesian languages and such comparisons could confuse you rather than help you

riki wrote:Btw about 'fonua' taking the article.

All the nouns which have been described as 'self defining', come under the 'locatives' category for NZ Māori and CI Māori. Locatives do not take articles, and if they do, it alters the meaning of the locative base. For example -

Mai runga (NZ Māori) and Mei runga (CI Māori) which translate as 'from above'. It could be explained, that you don't say in English 'from the above' and hence there are no articles used with locative bases (this would only apply to NZ Māori and CI Māori).

But to say 'from the land' (in terms of direction) it would have to be said - mai te whenua / mei te `enua. This is because the base word 'whenua/`enua' is not a locative base


I am not quite sure if I understood this question. :?

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Postby Ariki » 2005-10-15, 4:56

Where is this "there" coming from? The focus marker here just denotes what would be the subject in an equivalent English construction. In other paradigms it could denote the object. But still I don't understand why you put that "there".


ok, here is an example from NZ Māori -

Ka haere atu au ki te whare wānanga ako ai

This translates to -

I go to the university to learn there

Where I've bolded the words, these correspond to the anaphoric particle 'ai'. In this sentence construction (Māori), we have location emphasis, as the original underlying unfocussed statement is -

Ka haere atu au ki te ako i te whare wānanga

with 'i' being the location case marker.

I wouldn't do that if I was you. Tongan seems much more distinctive than Eastern Polynesian languages and such comparisons could confuse you rather than help you


After going through the lessons again, I've been paying more attention to word placement rather than lexical similarities in word meanings.

I am not quite sure if I understood this question.


Wasn't a question, more of a statement ;)
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby ego » 2005-10-15, 12:14

Ok, this example made things quite clearer. It seems that the "locative" emphasis works in the same way for Maori and Tongan. Tongan also uses that "ai". But this is a totally different topic. There are many kinds of emphasis in every language. The focus markers I was talking about don't denote locative emphasis. They are the equivalent of the subject-object sense in IE languages. Don't mix things.
By the way, with the revival of the discussion here, my desire to study Tongan has also revived which is exactly what should not happen to me right now. I have to study Turkish, Hebrew, ancient Greek already, I have to be concentrated on them :(

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Postby Ariki » 2005-10-16, 6:03

Don't mix things.


Wasn't the intention.

But it is strongly recommended to do comparative analysis in learning another Polynesian language by a lot of people here.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby Aleco » 2006-10-18, 15:32

I am waiting for more, Ego :lol: :P
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Postby ego » 2006-10-19, 5:25

Aleco wrote:I am waiting for more, Ego :lol: :P


Hmm?

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Postby Aleco » 2006-10-19, 13:11

ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:I am waiting for more, Ego :lol: :P


Hmm?


Still waiting...
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Postby ego » 2006-10-19, 14:33

Aleco wrote:
ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:I am waiting for more, Ego :lol: :P


Hmm?


Still waiting...


Waiting? Have you been studying Tongan? Have you studied everything already? How come you haven't told me? I want proofs :twisted:

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Postby Aleco » 2006-10-19, 19:39

ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:
ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:I am waiting for more, Ego :lol: :P


Hmm?


Still waiting...


Waiting? Have you been studying Tongan? Have you studied everything already? How come you haven't told me? I want proofs :twisted:


I am trying to learn the grammar and sentence building the most :wink: So, I can use my Niuean dictionary too :wink:
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Postby ego » 2006-10-20, 10:10

Aleco wrote:
ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:
ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:I am waiting for more, Ego :lol: :P


Hmm?


Still waiting...


Waiting? Have you been studying Tongan? Have you studied everything already? How come you haven't told me? I want proofs :twisted:


I am trying to learn the grammar and sentence building the most :wink: So, I can use my Niuean dictionary too :wink:


OK, then I'll wait for your first sentences. You have a Niuean dictionary? :shock: Where did you find it? Niuean is 80% identical to Tongan but remember that it's not totally same and there's a caracteristic difference: Niuean does not use the glottal stop, while Tongan uses it more than any other Polynesian language

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Postby Aleco » 2006-10-20, 13:25

Yeah, I know :wink: There is some grammar at the front, but some of that advanced English is Greek to me (ironic :roll: )

Tongan: ‘Oku ou inu
Niuean: Kua au inu
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Postby ego » 2006-10-21, 17:40

Aleco wrote:Yeah, I know :wink: There is some grammar at the front, but some of that advanced English is Greek to me (ironic :roll: )

Tongan: ‘Oku ou inu
Niuean: Kua au inu


Aha.. well, seems quite different, more than I thought :?

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Postby Aleco » 2006-10-22, 7:32

ego wrote:
Aleco wrote:Yeah, I know :wink: There is some grammar at the front, but some of that advanced English is Greek to me (ironic :roll: )

Tongan: ‘Oku ou inu
Niuean: Kua au inu


Aha.. well, seems quite different, more than I thought :?


Yes, particulary this sentence... But I am a bit confused about this present tense marker... Idon't know if it is the present tense it stands for :S I Hav seen it for bort past and present tense... :( Let me find another example ;) Without tense marker ... (Even though the sentence would be wrong ;) )

Tongan: Ke folau ki Tonga
Niuean: Koe folau ki Toga

I am not sure about "Toga" But I know that ng sounds in other polynesian languages is written g in Niuean, so I imagine it is so ;)
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Postby Mamo » 2006-10-22, 15:30

Yes, particulary this sentence... But I am a bit confused about this present tense marker... Idon't know if it is the present tense it stands for :S I Hav seen it for bort past and present tense... Let me find another example Without tense marker ... (Even though the sentence would be wrong )

Tongan: Ke folau ki Tonga
Niuean: Koe folau ki Toga


Are you sure that you are placing the correct pronouns in the right position in the Niuean sentences? So far, the pronouns you've placed before verbs in the Niuean sentences are postposed pronouns in the Tongan language, where they would follow the verb. To illustrate, these are some pronouns in Tongan:

ou (preposed 1st pers. sing. with 'oku)
ku (preposed 1st pers. sing. with na'a)
u (preposed 1st pers. sing. with kuo and te)
au (postposed 1st pers. sing.)

ke (preposed 2nd pers. sing.)
koe (postposed 2nd pers. sing.)

ne
(preposed 3rd pers. sing.)
ia (postposed 3rd pers. sing.)

ta (preposed 1st pers. dual inclusive)
kitaua (postposed 1st pers. dual inclusive)

ma (preposed 1st pers. dual exclusive)
kimaua (postposed 1st pers. dual exclusive)

mo (preposed 2nd pers. dual)
kimoua (postposed 2nd pers. dual)

na (preposed 3rd pers. dual)
kinaua (postposed 3rd pers. dual)

tau (preposed 1st pers. plural inclusive)
kitautolu (postposed 1st pers. plural inclusive)

mau (preposed 1st pers. plural exclusive)
kimautolu (postposed 1st pers. plural exclusive)

mou (preposed 2nd pers. plural)
kimoutolu (postposed 2nd pers. plural)

nau (preposed 3rd pers. plural)
kinautolu (postposed 3rd pers. plural)
Last edited by Mamo on 2006-10-23, 5:39, edited 1 time in total.


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