Warlpiri

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Struthiomimus
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Struthiomimus » 2012-07-04, 16:54

księżycowy wrote:I might try that. Thanks.


Cool. Are you going to try for Arrernte materials? or Pitjantjatjara? Or something else?

Also, I came across this blog post talking about data from the Australian census:

"It’s difficult to find data for indigenous languages from what’s been released so far, and it’s difficult to judge the reliability of the census data (for a number of reasons), but there are some heartening reported numbers of indigenous language being spoken in the home, for Warlpiri (2500 dwellings across Australia), Djambarrpuyngu (3000 dwellings) and Pitjantjatjara (4000 dwellings). Kriol (6800 dwellings) and Yumplatok a.k.a. Torres Strait Creole (5300 dwellings) are English-based creoles spoken in a number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities across Australia."

I also had a hard time trying to find info while navigating the census site. I'm kind of surprised the numbers for Pitjantjatjara are so high...but hopefully, they just reflect good news. :)
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księżycowy
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby księżycowy » 2012-07-05, 0:26

Struthiomimus wrote:Cool. Are you going to try for Arrernte materials? or Pitjantjatjara? Or something else?

Well, I'd probably try for Pitjantjatjara for sure. Maybe some Arrernte too. Time will tell. :wink:

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby sasquatch » 2012-07-05, 8:52

Struthiomimus wrote:Holy crap! That's so awesome! You should also get Prof. Simpson to teach a Warlpiri course...and allow students to matriculate through distance-learning :twisted:


Haha I need to discuss things more with them. Next time I see her I'll ask why there isn't one, in fact our student newspaper ran an article that the university should run indigenous languages courses, and it's hard to argue why we should not (assuming you ignore financial concerns of our austere VC). We certainly have a very active academic community for linguistics but much less for students so it's all up to me to push for it XD they are more than enthusiastic to help...

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Struthiomimus » 2012-07-17, 2:02

sasquatch wrote:We certainly have a very active academic community for linguistics but much less for students so it's all up to me to push for it XD they are more than enthusiastic to help...


Cool. Rock on! :partyhat: Also, I'm heartened in general after reading this.
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"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Imyirtseshem » 2012-07-18, 2:20

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Last edited by Imyirtseshem on 2012-09-25, 3:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Saim
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Saim » 2012-07-29, 16:59

Phew, thank god. Now when Europeans ask me how the Aboriginal situation I can at least say that there are bilingual programmes.

I remember reading in a David Crystal book (or in the translated version I was reading Dejvid Kristal :lol: ) that NT had dropped bilingual education as of the time of publishing, and then I was shocked to see that the book was published in 2000, 2002 or something like that. :shock:

I don't understand how Anglo-Australians expect Aborigines (or "Aboriginals", on in [1] colloquial Australian English :P ) not to live on poverty when they after genocide in the 19th century, having their kids stolen in the 20th century, and even today the removal of bilingual programs.

"They're bludgers, we shouldn't have to pay for them, they're too lazy to lift themselves out of poverty, blah blah blah". And yet, our education policy up till this month of this year discriminated against them, how can people be so stupid and short-sighted?

EDIT: [1] Is it possible for living in a foreign country to take a toll on your native language? :S
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby sasquatch » 2012-07-30, 0:29

Saim wrote: how can people be so stupid and short-sighted?


racism, pure and simple.

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Imyirtseshem » 2012-07-30, 11:36

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby sasquatch » 2012-08-03, 2:10

Imyirtseshem wrote:Others might not agree with this distinction but I do think that there's some truth to it.


Yeah, I think that's pretty correct and reasonable, but regardless I think poor social values are poor social values regardless of one's reasoning for holding those values they should be crushed. In a very big way this sort of "groupthink" is far more dangerous than what you might call "real racism" and really just as hard to break down. It's not easy to smash an entire ideological hegemony which is reinforced by every social institution in society.

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Imyirtseshem » 2012-08-04, 12:29

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Quabazaa » 2012-08-28, 16:30

Hi everyone! Really cool to find a thread about Warlpiri. I am a New Zealander who moved to Aus not too long ago, and of course I always have to investigate the local languages. Feels wrong not to at least understand place names in my local area. So here in Melbourne I have been having a wee look into Woiwurrung. I've ordered some resources from the library so I hope to let you know more about the language than is currently available online.

Thought you all might be interested to see these cool videos in Woiwurrung with a few myths and stories (with subtitles).

My favourite is the creation of the platypus I think :D

Warlpiri seems very interesting too, I may just learn some. This thread is definitely tempting. I would love to go out there and hear it spoken IRL. The best thing I've read so far is that women refer to their brothers as "the sweaty" (yakuri). It's so fitting! :rotfl:
Native: [flag]en-nz[/flag] | C2: [flag]sp-ar[/flag] | B2-C1: [flag]fr[/flag][flag]de[/flag] | A2-B1: [flag]ar[/flag][flag]ja[/flag][flag]mi[/flag][flag]ar-eg[/flag] |
A1-0: [flag]gd[/flag][flag]ko[/flag][flag]pt-br[/flag][flag]bm[/flag][flag]egy[/flag][flag]wbp[/flag]
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Struthiomimus » 2012-08-29, 0:38

Hey Quabazaa! Welcome to the Warlpiri corner of Unilang ^^ It's both strange and nice to see others (besides me) posting in this thread. :D

Quabazaa wrote:Thought you all might be interested to see these cool videos in Woiwurrung with a few myths and stories (with subtitles).

My favourite is the creation of the platypus I think :D



Cool! Thanks for sharing!

Quabazaa wrote:The best thing I've read so far is that women refer to their brothers as "the sweaty" (yakuri). It's so fitting!


Really? Where'd you find that out? I learned something new. :)
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Saim » 2012-08-29, 4:35

While the site's nice, helping document an extinct language, the Australian accents are a bit jarring. Like, it doesn't seem they have any idea about the prosody of the language... I would pretty much produce the same if you gave me a random Aboriginal text and just said "read it out" (I would read it out akwardly and with a really weird intonation and prosody, but at least I would roll my rs haha).

I feel like, why didn't they listen to some nearby languages, or even read the very basic phonology offered on Wikipedia rather than pronouncing it exactly the way non-indigenous Australians would.

It reminds me of Cornish (which also has a total English accent, being revived from no real recordings AFAIK), except the people seem less comfortable speaking Woiwurrung (probably because they don't really know it)
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby sasquatch » 2012-08-29, 4:44

Saim wrote:I feel like, why didn't they listen to some nearby languages, or even read the very basic phonology offered on Wikipedia rather than pronouncing it exactly the way non-indigenous Australians would.


I'M SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE AGREES. It's so annoying when non-linguists totally ignore phonology as an aspect of language.

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Quabazaa » 2012-08-29, 6:04

Struthiomimus wrote:Hey Quabazaa! Welcome to the Warlpiri corner of Unilang ^^ It's both strange and nice to see others (besides me) posting in this thread. :D


I was stoked to find there was already a thread :)

Quabazaa wrote:The best thing I've read so far is that women refer to their brothers as "the sweaty" (yakuri). It's so fitting!

Struthiomimus wrote:Really? Where'd you find that out? I learned something new. :)



It's in a Learner's Guide to Warlpiri page 192 if you're interested. It also notes that men call their sisters "the others" (kari-pardu)

Saim wrote:While the site's nice, helping document an extinct language, the Australian accents are a bit jarring. Like, it doesn't seem they have any idea about the prosody of the language... I would pretty much produce the same if you gave me a random Aboriginal text and just said "read it out" (I would read it out akwardly and with a really weird intonation and prosody, but at least I would roll my rs haha).


Yes I noticed that too. Perhaps they could have got someone to help from a nearby area or who speaks a language with the most similar sounds in it. I will definitely be trying to use Woiwurrung phonetic rules. I'm glad they are documenting the language and its stories though. I hope they managed to get some recordings from native speakers - I am awaiting the material I ordered from the library to see what the sound recordings are like, if there are any.

I didn't know that Cornish had such an English accent now, I suppose it's always a problem with revived languages. In NZ some of the Maori pronunciation has changed due to all learners being bilingual these days. But it's definitely a far more gradual change than speaking it with a total English accent!
Native: [flag]en-nz[/flag] | C2: [flag]sp-ar[/flag] | B2-C1: [flag]fr[/flag][flag]de[/flag] | A2-B1: [flag]ar[/flag][flag]ja[/flag][flag]mi[/flag][flag]ar-eg[/flag] |
A1-0: [flag]gd[/flag][flag]ko[/flag][flag]pt-br[/flag][flag]bm[/flag][flag]egy[/flag][flag]wbp[/flag]
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Saim » 2012-08-29, 12:16

In NZ some of the Maori pronunciation has changed due to all learners being bilingual these days. But it's definitely a far more gradual change than speaking it with a total English accent!

I think it depends on whether any native speakers are around, so varieties like Neo-Maori, Neo-Welsh and Neo-Irish would be much less strongly phonetically Anglicized than Neo-Cornish or Neo-Woiwurrung. When I say "Anglicized", I don't just mean just the consonants and vowels, but also just the flow of the language:

OK I can't find the video now, but it was a guy saying "Why Cornish? Cause I am Cornish", with the same intonation and everything as in English. If it was in Spanish or Serbian I don't think it wouldn't really be phrased like that or with that intonation, so I assume it's because of English influence given it's a Celtic language. Just goes to show how much you've lost if you're only going on written texts.

I remeber I was listening to one Neo-Maori song, and all the consonants were aspirated and the vowels were in their NZ English positions rather than the ones I had heard from (presumably) native speakers. Interesting stuff.

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Struthiomimus » 2012-08-31, 2:33

Quabazaa wrote:I was stoked to find there was already a thread


There are also Pitjantjatjara and Arrernte threads (among others); they're just buried a few pages back.

Quabazaa wrote:It's in a Learner's Guide to Warlpiri page 192 if you're interested. It also notes that men call their sisters "the others" (kari-pardu)


Ah, the section on skin names and familial relations. Shouldn't have glossed that part over...

I have to say, you guys are getting me excited about Aussie languages again! I need to crack open my books. 8-)
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby księżycowy » 2012-08-31, 13:11

I might just have to crack open one of my books too. :wink:

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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Struthiomimus » 2012-09-14, 0:43

After reading what this guy was able to accomplish with Eyak, an extinct language, I really need to step my game up with Warlpiri. :|
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Re: Warlpiri

Postby Lauren » 2012-09-14, 0:53

Struthiomimus wrote:After reading what this guy was able to accomplish with Eyak, an extinct language, I really need to step my game up with Warlpiri. :|

That's very inspiring. I've always loved being a part of language revivals, I just can't seem to stick with one.
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