Translation of small text into Hawaiian

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kahihi'o
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby kahihi'o » 2010-02-22, 10:15

I'm not sure if other Polynesian languages have emotional definite and indefinite articles. Tongan does have some interesting characteristics, such as the definitive accent, the k from PPN, preposed and proposed pronouns, etc. But I don't know very much about any other Polynesian languages than Hawaiian. My understanding of Tongan grammar is limited to a few reference materials I've read.

With regard to siʻi (def. emot.), the book Intensive Course in Tongan explains its use better than I can:

Intensive Course in Tongan wrote:Siʻi immediately precedes the word of phrase it modifies. The emotion expressed by it may suggest tragic misfortune, pity, endearment, or humility.

ʻOku fakamamahi ʻaupito e siʻi mate e faʻeé mo e siʻi fānaú.
The unfortunate death of the mother and the poor little children is very sad.


Si'a (indef. emot.) is used similarly.

Tongan Grammar wrote:Kuo lavea si'a tamasi'i?
Has a child been hurt?
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Nohola
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby Nohola » 2010-02-22, 14:24

Wow, that's interesting, it does have to do with emotion as I thought. This is why I say that these cultural tidbits are essential. This explains a lot about Polynesian lifestyle & why things are the way that they are. We don't come from a culture of western society although we have been influenced by it. Although with Tongans their language is much more specific in this sense. Thanks for this.
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Ariki
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby Ariki » 2010-06-30, 23:51

Aloha kākou!

I'm just slowly catching up on this. Just to let you know, Mamo and I are very good close friends so any fighting between him and I is purely just marital domestics :lol:

As for the others...well, at least by fighting they show they have a lot of passion for the Hawaiian language, even if Mamo and I (and anyone else for that matter) disagree with their view of the grammar of the language.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

kahihi'o
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby kahihi'o » 2010-07-01, 22:20

Aloha nō e oʻu mau hoa,

Well, this may come as a surprise, but Mamo is back. I'm Mamo under a new account name. I lost access to my old one and didn't want to go through the trouble of recovering everything. So I come in, answer questions if I can and add new Hawaiian language resources as I find them. As Riki said, he and I are very good friends and issues we've had haven't affected our relationship. I respect him immensely and look to him as a much more knowledgeable resource on Polynesian languages, period.
I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai, no ke kai kā hoʻi ua ʻāina.

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Ariki
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby Ariki » 2010-07-01, 22:43

Welcome back Mamo I mean kahihi'o :P! Just letting everyone know I've pm'ed Varislintu to ask her what the protocols are in getting kahihi'o/mamo as moderator again. I'm hoping for an answer by midday (Australia time) if I don't get an answer I'll brave it and just ask directly in the moderators forum (fingers crossed I don't get hated on for breaking protocol).
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Re: Translation of small text

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-07-04, 5:20

kahihi'o wrote:Aloha nō e oʻu mau hoa,

Well, this may come as a surprise, but Mamo is back. I'm Mamo under a new account name. I lost access to my old one and didn't want to go through the trouble of recovering everything. So I come in, answer questions if I can and add new Hawaiian language resources as I find them. As Riki said, he and I are very good friends and issues we've had haven't affected our relationship. I respect him immensely and look to him as a much more knowledgeable resource on Polynesian languages, period.

Welcome back Kahihi‘o/Mamo! I'm definitely going to try to do my part to help resuscitate the Polynesian forums, I want them to become healthy again. :)
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Ariki
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby Ariki » 2011-01-20, 21:36

kahihi'o wrote:I'm not sure if other Polynesian languages have emotional definite and indefinite articles. Tongan does have some interesting characteristics, such as the definitive accent, the k from PPN, preposed and proposed pronouns, etc. But I don't know very much about any other Polynesian languages than Hawaiian. My understanding of Tongan grammar is limited to a few reference materials I've read.

With regard to siʻi (def. emot.), the book Intensive Course in Tongan explains its use better than I can:

Intensive Course in Tongan wrote:Siʻi immediately precedes the word of phrase it modifies. The emotion expressed by it may suggest tragic misfortune, pity, endearment, or humility.

ʻOku fakamamahi ʻaupito e siʻi mate e faʻeé mo e siʻi fānaú.
The unfortunate death of the mother and the poor little children is very sad.


Si'a (indef. emot.) is used similarly.

Tongan Grammar wrote:Kuo lavea si'a tamasi'i?
Has a child been hurt?


I could have replied to this but I haven't...so I will now :yep:

From what I have read from Pollex, Proto-Polynesian lacked emotive possession.

The adjective si'i is none other than the descendant of PPN *?iti.

Tahitian also uses iti as an adjective to mean beloved, dear, precious but that usage is of French influence.

I am unsure as to whether or not Tongan has been influenced by a foreign language/culture to incorporate si'i as a part of its possessive/determiner system. I've read some texts in Tongan and haven't seen this usage of si'i but then again what I have read doesn't amount to much. Planet Tonga is a good resource to check out for everyday Tongan language.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

johnH

Re: Translation of small text

Postby johnH » 2011-02-26, 7:50

Can I ask a question to the speakers,
is the Si really just the emotional article as opposed to the emotional definite or indefinite, second part is is the definite and indefinite distinguished by changes in the word also?
also would aku, eku be understandable?[given a sufficient number of dialects, spocken by non haole].

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Ariki
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Re: Translation of small text

Postby Ariki » 2011-03-04, 1:49

johnH wrote:Can I ask a question to the speakers,
is the Si really just the emotional article as opposed to the emotional definite or indefinite, second part is is the definite and indefinite distinguished by changes in the word also?
also would aku, eku be understandable?[given a sufficient number of dialects, spocken by non haole].


I suppose emotional definite may be a better description. From what I remember, 'my' in Proto-Polynesian is reconstructed as *te?aku and *te?oku in which the "te" is the definite singular determiner *te.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.


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