Niihau chant "He motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau" Tah

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Boki
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Niihau chant "He motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau" Tah

Postby Boki » 2008-01-05, 5:37

Auntie Nona Beamer performs "He Motu Ta`ura" as a Hura `Üriri, or dance with spinning gourd rattle.

`Ae, he motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau

He motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau

I ta uru ra`i a Tawaihoa a Täne

`O taurana-a-ta-rä i Haräri`i

Hara ta rä tau ma te tua o Rehua

Tau ta mörehurehu o te ahiahi

Moe e nö Taua`i i runa ta rä

E ö ana `o Rehua i te tai

You can see the video and listen to the true authentic one language at the following website:

http://www.hulapreservation.org/Kupuna_ ... ID=7&CID=6

standardized Hawaiian that is taught in schools today was invented by foreign missionaries. Speak and learn the Niihau dialect which is the closest thing to pre-European Hawaiian language.

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Ariki
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Postby Ariki » 2008-01-05, 5:58

The Ni'ihauan way of speaking represents Ni'ihauan way of life and their way of thinking. But their way of life and way of thinking is not necessarily representative of how the ancestors on the other islands thought and spoke.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

Boki
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Postby Boki » 2008-01-05, 6:05

you are wrong. that represents your opinion and how you see the world. How many years have you been studying the Hawaiian language? I've been studying about 15 years. every Hawaiian Island prior to European contact used the letters T and R. this is a fact.obviously each islands dialect varied slightly. You can believe whatever lies you want but unless you've been studying Hawaiian longer than I have you shouldn't try and teach. Even kamehameha called himself Tamehameha and signed his name with a T not a K.

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Ariki
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Postby Ariki » 2008-01-05, 6:20

You say...

you are wrong.


So I'd like to quote this in reply...

that represents your opinion and how you see the world.


See. I'm happy if you think that I'm wrong because its no skin off of my nose.

How many years have you been studying the Hawaiian language? I've been studying about 15 years.


Let's just say I speak sister languages that didn't rush to strip themselves down as fast as Hawaiian did, phonetically speaking.

every Hawaiian Island prior to European contact used the letters T and R.


Are you quite sure that the whole population on each island used t and r? And are you able to confirm that speakers on each island thought that t and k and l and r were two completely distinct sounds?

You can believe whatever lies you want but unless you've been studying Hawaiian longer than I have you shouldn't try and teach. Even kamehameha called himself Tamehameha and signed his name with a T not a K.


I'll stick to what I know and whether you think its right or wrong doesn't bother me in the slightest.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby Mamo » 2008-01-05, 12:30

Boki wrote:you are wrong. that represents your opinion and how you see the world. How many years have you been studying the Hawaiian language? I've been studying about 15 years. every Hawaiian Island prior to European contact used the letters T and R. this is a fact.obviously each islands dialect varied slightly. You can believe whatever lies you want but unless you've been studying Hawaiian longer than I have you shouldn't try and teach. Even kamehameha called himself Tamehameha and signed his name with a T not a K.



Kanalua no ko‘u mana‘o no kau ho‘opa‘aha‘awina ‘ana i ka ‘olelo Hawai‘i no ‘umikumamalima mau makahiki. Ina no pela, ina no ‘a‘ole e ‘ike ‘ia kena ‘ano na‘aupo kukonukonu o ka ‘olelo, a ‘a‘ole ho‘i ‘oe e kuhihewa, e, ua ‘olelo ka po‘e Hawai‘i a pau mai kela pe‘a a keia pe‘a o ka pae moku nei ma ho‘okahi wale no ‘ano. A ina no he ‘oia‘i‘o kou noho ‘ana i haumana ma keia ‘olelo, a alaila, ua akaka mua no ‘a‘ole e loli ka mana‘o o kekahi ‘olelo ina he K ke ho‘ohana ‘ia a he T paha. Mai na kumole hea la ‘oe i ‘ohi‘ohi ai i kena mau mana‘o kuhihewa, e Boki? Mai na puke kahiko a kahi po‘e hepa paha i hiki ‘ole ke ‘olelo pololei, a na‘aupo paha i ke kahua kalai‘olelo maoli?

‘Auhea kou a‘o i ka ‘olelo? I ka ‘i paha.

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Nohola
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Postby Nohola » 2008-01-06, 23:56

riki wrote:You say...
How many years have you been studying the Hawaiian language? I've been studying about 15 years.


Let's just say I speak sister languages that didn't rush to strip themselves down as fast as Hawaiian did, phonetically speaking.

This is one thing I'd have to agree with you. People like boki who have been studying from books or from other methods other than from manaleo lack the true pronunciation. It is because of this, that they tend to over compensate and demand another "reform" in the orthography and in turn focus on the writing rather than actually speaking like a native. I was lucky that I had a manaleo teaching us, although how much of her pronunciation was influenced by foreign contact I cannot determine. What I do know is that I am aware of the correct pronunciation and apply it as I should and have heard other Polynesian speakers and know well that their pronunciation is the best one to mimic.


every Hawaiian Island prior to European contact used the letters T and R.


Are you quite sure that the whole population on each island used t and r? And are you able to confirm that speakers on each island thought that t and k and l and r were two completely distinct sounds?

He can't and won't.
He manao oiwi!

E hoi e pee i ke opu weuweu me he moho la. E ao o hai ka pua o ka mauu ia oe

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Ariki
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Postby Ariki » 2008-01-07, 0:49

'Ae, ke k#257;ko'o nei au i kāu 'ōlelo e hoa. Ina ho'olohe au i kēkahi kanaka Rarotonga e ōlelo ana i loko i kāna 'ōlelo, mana'o au "he maika'i loa ke kani a kān 'ōlelo", nō ke mea, ina ho'olohe au i kēkahi kanaka Maori e 'ōlelo Maori ana ('oia ho'i ina ho'olohe au i nā L2 speakers), mamae kō'u upo'o, nō ke mea, he Ha'ole wale nō ke kani (mē 'ā'ole i a'o ua kanaka e 'ālelo mai ka manaleo).

Yes I tautoko what you're saying e hoa. When I listen to a Rarotongan speaking their language I think "their language sounds really nice", because, when I listen to a Maori speaking Maori (that is, when I listen to L2 speakers), my head hurts, because, it sounds so English (if said person didn't learn from a native speaker).

Any corrections to my Hawaiian will be greatly appreciated from those who know how to speak it. I used mai to mean "like" because I didn't want to use a verb phrase which would have involved a word like "like/ōlike/olike". In Rarotongan they use mei, and in NZ Māori its me. I thought the Hawaiian form would be like the Tahitian one, as they use mai.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

Mamo
Posts: 555
Joined: 2006-06-14, 21:56
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Niihau chant "He motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau"

Postby Mamo » 2008-01-07, 15:52

Boki wrote:Auntie Nona Beamer performs "He Motu Ta`ura" as a Hura `Üriri, or dance with spinning gourd rattle.

`Ae, he motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau

He motu Ta`ura Nihoa me Ni`ihau

I ta uru ra`i a Tawaihoa a Täne

`O taurana-a-ta-rä i Haräri`i

Hara ta rä tau ma te tua o Rehua

Tau ta mörehurehu o te ahiahi

Moe e nö Taua`i i runa ta rä

E ö ana `o Rehua i te tai

You can see the video and listen to the true authentic one language at the following website:

http://www.hulapreservation.org/Kupuna_ ... ID=7&CID=6

standardized Hawaiian that is taught in schools today was invented by foreign missionaries. Speak and learn the Niihau dialect which is the closest thing to pre-European Hawaiian language.


E kokoke ana e moku ka pawa, a ua ho'ala 'ia ku'u po, 'a'ole hiki ke hiamoe. Ma muli o ia mea, ua ho'oholo au i ko'u mana'o e ho'i mai a heluhelu i kau mau mana'opa'a no ka "haumia" o ka 'olelo Hawai'i e ku nei. Wahi a kou mana'opa'a, 'o ka 'olelo Hawai'i o neia au, he 'olelo ia i ho'ololi a hakuwale 'ia paha e na mikionali. Aka na'e, he nui wale na wahi nawaliwali o kena kumumana'o. 'O ka mua, 'a'ole he ho'okahi wale no 'ano 'olelo Hawai'i e kamakama'ilio 'ia nei e na Hawai'i 'a'ole ma Ni'ihau i keia wa, a 'a'ole no ho'i he ho'okahi wale no 'ano 'olelo Hawai'i i ka wa ma mua. E huli aku 'oe i ke ao a puni, a e 'ike ana no (ke 'ole e 'ake'ake'a 'ia kou mau maka a me na pepeiao e kena 'eke piha kukae au e kapa nei 'o ia kou lolo), 'a'ohe wahi 'olelo o ka honua nei e 'olelo 'ia ana e ka po'e a pau ma ho'okahi wale no 'ano. Pela ma Hawai'i nei, a pela no me na 'olelo no na 'aina 'e mai. I kanaka aha ia e 'olelo aku ai, he ho'okahi wale no 'ano 'olelo Hawai'i i ka wa ma mua, a 'o na manaleo e ola nei a me na haumana e ka'a nei ma lalo o ka ho'ona'auao 'ia ma ka 'olelo 'oiwi , ua pau lakou i ka hewa, koe ka po'e no Ni'ihau mai? 'O Wa'awa'a no ka mea nana e ho'opuka i kena 'ano mana'o wahahe'e. 'O 'oe no ia.

Ua pa'a no ko'u mana'o, he 'ike malani wale no kou no ka 'olelo Hawai'i, a 'oi aku no kou hawawa i ka 'olelo Ni'ihau. 'A'ole paha 'oe i lohe i ka 'olelo Ni'ihau ma mua, aka, 'o ka mea wale no i maopopo ia 'oe, he T ko lakou ma ka puana, a i kekahi manawa, he R. 'A'ole anei i maopopo ia 'oe, 'olelo lakou i ke K a me ka T, 'a'ole 'o ka T wale no? E la'a me "ketahi, lakou, Katulanui, aku, kotua, takahiaka," a pela wale aku? 'A'ole ana no paha āu pane, no ka mea, i loko no o kau ho'opunipuni 'ana ma 'ane'i me ka 'olelo 'ana aku, he haumana 'olelo Hawai'i 'oe no 'umikumamalima makahiki, 'a'ohe paha mea o keia kikokikona e maopopo ia 'oe. :lol:

Ke mana'olana nei au e lilo keia i mea e ka'aka'a ai kou mau maka a 'ike 'oe i ka makehewa o kou ola. Ua aho paha ina 'a'ole i lolokukui 'ia kou makuahine e kahi kao lepela, i 'ole e like kou hupo me ka pupuka ma'ino'ino loa o ka helehelena o kou papalina, a i 'ole e waia ka inoa o kou 'ohana i kou hanau 'ia 'ana mai. ;)

Nui maoli ko'u mahalo i ka po'e Ni'ihau no ko lakou malama 'ana i ka lakou 'olelo pono'i a me ka ho'omo'o 'ana i na hana ku'una. Pela no ko'u mahalo i na manaleo kaka'ikahi e koe nei ma kela wahi keia wahi, a me na haumana pu e mamaka nei i ke kuleana o ke a'o 'ana mai i ka lakou 'olelo a me ka ho'opuka 'ana i ia mea me ka ha'aheo a me ka hopohopo 'ole. Hu ke aloha i loko o'u no lakou a pau, 'ea. :D

E ola no ka 'olelo Hawai'i ma kona mau 'ano a pau!


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