grammar sentences

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kman1
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grammar sentences

Postby kman1 » 2007-09-23, 0:54

I made the sentences below to get a feel of how different English tenses are expressed in hawai'ian. Please check what I've written for accuracy and please explain the ones I got wrong or didn't know.

1. I speak Spanish.
2. I used to play video games.
3. I ate a cookie 5 min. ago.
4. Last year he was ill.
5. When his parents built the house, he was ill.
6. At the beginning of this year he has been ill, now he is fine again.
7. He had broken a leg, therefore he couldn't come to school.
8. I’m reading a book now.
9. I was working while she was studying.
10. I was eating there (- let's say lunch) until I got to know that there were cockroaches in the kitchen. Then I left (immediately).

11. I had been lying there for 3 hrs. before I fell asleep.
12. You will have been eating for 10 min. when I finish.
13. He wants me to go home now.
14. I would buy more food but I’m full now.
15. You are baptized now. ‘passive’
16. You were baptized for 5 min. ‘passive’
17. The city was destroyed by the fire ‘passive’
18. I had been baptized 3 times by 2001.
19. I will have been baptized 6 times by 2002.
20. If he paid me more, I would stay. (2 possibilities for ‘if he paid me more’)*
21. We would have built the house, if we had had the money.*


In my Hawai'ian translation, I only translated the verb portion of the sentences. that's the only part I'm concerned with. So remember when correcting what I wrote I only need the verbs NOT the whole sentence. (unless you feel translating the entire sentence would be better for everyone viewing the post)

1. ke ʻōlelo nei aʻu
2. maʻa pāʻani nei aʻu
3. i ʻai aʻu
4. ua maʻi ʻoia
5. ua kūkulu , ua maʻi ʻoia
6. ua maʻi , akā maikaʻi ʻoia i kēia manawa
7. ua haʻi ʻoia , aʻole ua hiki hele mai
8. ke heluhelu nei au i kēia manawa
9. e hana ana au ʻoiai e hoʻopaʻa ana ʻoia
10. e ʻai ana aʻu
11. ua moe aʻu
12. e ʻai ʻoe
13. e makemake ana ʻoia e hele aʻu i kauhale
14. inā kūʻai aʻu , akā piha aʻu i kēia manawa
15. ?
16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. inā ua uku ʻoia iaʻu , inā noho aʻu maʻaneʻi
21. inā ua kūkulu mākou i kauhale inā he kālā mākou

Mamo
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Postby Mamo » 2007-10-13, 10:10

Hi Kman1,

I'm sorry that I didn't get to your question quickly. I am going to answer your first post in two separate ones: the first dealing with the English sentences and Hawaiian equivalents keeping in mind that we are first concerned with tenses, and the second post will deal with corrections to the second half of your first post where you wrote Hawaiian sentences. I realize that the first part is what you originally wanted, so I will get to that first.
Last edited by Mamo on 2007-10-14, 3:50, edited 1 time in total.

kman1
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Postby kman1 » 2007-10-13, 12:58

ok i'll be here

Mamo
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Postby Mamo » 2007-10-14, 2:51

Part 1.

Please keep in mind that these are not the only ways to express these sentences. If you want more in depth explanations about Hawaiian grammatical patterns, I'd recommend Hawaiian Grammar from Elbert and Pukui and this resource, http://www.uatuahine.hawaii.edu/papa/ha ... fault.html

I will turn to the second half of the first post a little later.


1. I speak Spanish. – This tense would be expressed with the absence of tense/aspect markers (ke … nei, e … ana, ua …, etc.) It would be expressed like this:
‘Ōlelo au i ka ‘ōlelo Paniolo.

2. I used to play video games. – This tense would be expressed with the completed action marker Ua at the front of the sentence, and Ma mua (in front/before/previously) at the end. I don’t know the equivalent for “video games.” The sentence would be expressed like this:
Ua pā῾ani au i ka “video games” ma mua.

3. I ate a cookie 5 min. ago. – This would be expressed with Ua at the front of the sentence, like this:
Ua ‘ai au i kekahi kuki (i) ‘elima mau minuke aku nei.

4. Last year, he was ill. – Ua would be at the front again, except we will place “I kēlā makahiki aku nei” (last year) before it just to fit in with the order of your sentence (Yes, prepositional phrases can be moved around like we do in English). The sentence is expressed like this:
I kēlā makahiki aku nei, ua ma῾i ‘o ia.

5. When his parents built the house, he was ill. – This sentence is more complicated than the first four. One way to state “When his parents built the house” would be closer to saying in English “At the time when his parents built the house,” which would be said “I ka wā a kona mau mākua i kūkulu ai i ka hale.” In the phrase “the time when his parents built the house,” we see a subject relative clause; its structure is a little more challenging to explain right now, but I have been planning to do it when I have a little more time. The whole sentence would be constructed like this:
I ka wā a kona mau mākua i kūkulu ai i ka hale, ua ma῾i ‘o ia.

6. At the beginning of this year he has been ill, now he is fine again. – I am having trouble understanding this sentence in English, but by “has been” I’m assuming you’re referring to perfect progressive. Hawaiian does not have a direct equivalent to this tense, so I would pick either perfect (Ua) or progressive/incomplete (E ... ana); E ... ana is progressive regardless of whether we're talking about the past, present, or future. Back to the sentence, the two alternatives would be:
1) I ka ho῾omaka ‘ana o kēia makahiki, ua ma῾i ‘o ia, akā, ua ola hou mai nō.
2) I ka ho῾omaka ‘ana o kēia makahiki, e ma῾i ana ‘o ia, akā, ua ola hou mai nō.


7. He had broken a leg, therefore he couldn't come to school. – This sentence would be expressed with Ua, and I would actually write it in Hawaiian closer to "His leg had broken" rather than "He had broken his leg;" this would be a more common Hawaiian thought, because normally, a person wouldn't actively break his own leg. The sentence would be expressed like this:
Ua hakihaki kona wāwae, no laila, ‘a῾ole i hiki iā ia ke hele mai i ke kula.

8. I’m reading a book now. – This sentence would be expressed with the present tense pattern, Ke … nei, like this:
Ke heluhelu nei au i kekahi puke i kēia manawa.

9. I was working while she was studying. – “I was working” would be expressed with the incomplete action marker, e … ana, like this:
E hana ana au ‘oiai ‘o ia e ho῾opa῾aha῾awina ana.

10. I was eating there (- let's say lunch) until I got to know that there were cockroaches in the kitchen. Then I left (immediately). – Again, “I was eating there” would be expressed with the E … ana pattern. Also, since the last sentence “Then I left (immediately)” is an action immediately following another one, this last sentence could take this sentence pattern:
‘O + article + verb + nō + ia + o/a + article (if it is a common noun) + subject
or
‘O + k-possessive + verb + nō + ia
Hence, “Then I left immediately” could be stated “ ῾O ka ha῾alele nō ia o῾u” or “ ‘O ko῾u ha῾alele nō ia.” The whole sentence would look like this:
E ‘ai ana au i laila, a i ka maopopo ῾ana ia῾u he mau ‘elelū nō ma ka hale kuke, ‘o ko῾u ha῾alele nō ia.

11. I had been lying there for 3 hrs. before I fell asleep. – I’d express it like this:
‘Ekolu o῾u mau hola i moe iho ai i laila a ho’i i ka hiamoe.

12. You will have been eating for 10 min. when I finish. – I’d express it like this:
Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana, ua ‘ai ‘oe no ‘umi mau minuke.

13. He wants me to go home now. – I’d express it like this:
Makemake ‘o ia e ho῾i aku au i ka home.
You can also say: Ke makemake nei ‘o ia e ho῾i aku au i ka home.

14. I would buy more food but I’m full now. – I’d express it closer to "If I were not full, then I would have bought more food." Like this:
Inā ῾a῾ole au i mā῾ona, ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.


15. You are baptized now. ‘passive’ – Passives are made with the passive particle ‘ia following the verb, or if the verb has modifiers, it follows the final modifier. I’d express it like this:
Ua papekema ‘ia ‘oe.

16. You were baptized for 5 min. ‘passive’ -
Ua papekema ‘ia ‘oe no ‘elima mau minuke.

17. The city was destroyed by the fire ‘passive’ – You include the agent “the fire” here. In a passive sentence, the agent is preceded by the marker e.
- Ua ho῾opau ‘ia ke kūlanakauhale e ke ahi.

18. I had been baptized 3 times by 2001. – I’d express it like this:
Ua papekema ‘ia au he ‘ekolu mau manawa ma mua o ka makahiki 2001 (‘elua kaukani a me ‘ekahi)


19. I will have been baptized 6 times by 2002. – I’d express it like this:
Ke hiki mai ka makahiki 2002, ua papekema ‘ia au he ‘eono mau manawa.

20. If he paid me more, I would stay. (2 possibilities for ‘if he paid me more’)* - I am not sure what you mean by “stay.” If it is a job, I would express it like this:
Inā i ‘oi aku kāna uku 'ana mai ia῾u, ua mau nō ka'u lawelawe 'ana ma lalo ona

21. We would have built the house, if we had had the money.* - I would express it like this:
Inā i lawa ke kālā, ua kūkulu māua/mākou i ka hale.

kman1
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Postby kman1 » 2007-10-24, 16:25

Hi Mamo, thanks for the corrections so far in part 1. I have questions about what you wrote. (which was great)

‘Ōlelo au i ka ‘ōlelo Paniolo.


1. a. why is the verb used by itself? Isn’t ‘ke…nei’ present tense? How are these different? b. why did you put ‘ka’ here? isn’t that the definite article?

Ua ‘ai au i kekahi kuki (i) ‘elima mau minuke aku nei.


3. a. ‘kekahi’ ? b. why is ‘i’ in parenthesis? c. ‘minuke’ = ‘minute’ & ‘mau minuke’ = ‘minutes’ ?

I ka wā a kona mau mākua i kūkulu ai i ka hale, ua ma῾i ‘o ia.


5. I think I understand this sentence. However there are some words that I’m unsure of though. a. ‘I ka wā a kona mau mākua’ <- what does the ‘a’ mean? b. ‘i kūkulu ai’ <- what is ‘i…ai’ ?

I ka ho῾omaka ‘ana o kēia makahiki, ua ma῾i ‘o ia, akā, ua ola hou mai nō.


6. a. (‘ana) <- so this word nominalizes the word preceding it not the word following it, right? b. ‘ua ola hou mai nō’ <- what does ‘ua’, ‘mai nō’, and ‘ola’ mean here? ‘hou’ = ‘again’ right?

Ua hakihaki kona wāwae, no laila, ‘a῾ole i hiki iā ia ke hele mai i ke kula.


7. a. ‘Ua hakihaki kona wāwae’ <this> ‘ke hele’ ? f. ‘i ke kula’ <what> (῾O ka ha῾alele) here you put (ka), why? b. (nō ia o῾u) <- where did (o῾u) come from? c. (ko῾u ha῾alele) <- you put (ko῾u) here since the sentence is referring to me, right? d. (a i ka maopopo ῾ana ia῾u) and (he mau ‘elelū nō) <- I don’t understand these two sections.

‘Ekolu o῾u mau hola i moe iho ai i laila a ho’i i ka hiamoe.


11. a. (o῾u) ? b. (i moe iho) ? c. (ai i laila) ? d. (a ho’i i ka hiamoe) ?

Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana, ua ‘ai ‘oe no ‘umi mau minuke.


12. a. (Ke pau ka῾u) ? b. (no) = ‘for’, right?

Makemake ‘o ia e ho῾i aku au i ka home.


13. (e) = ‘that’ ??

Inā ῾a῾ole au i mā῾ona, ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.


14. a. (i mā῾ona) <- what does ‘i’ indicate here? b. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- I don’t understand... (kū῾ai) = ‘to buy’,

Ua papekema ‘ia au he ‘ekolu mau manawa ma mua o ka makahiki 2001 (‘elua kaukani a me ‘ekahi)


18. a. (he ‘ekolu) <- meaning of ‘he’ ? b. (o ka makahiki 2001) <- meaning of ‘o’ c. (a me ‘ekahi) <- meaning of ‘a me’ ??

Ke hiki mai ka makahiki 2002, ua papekema ‘ia au he ‘eono mau manawa.


19. (ke hiki mai) ??

Inā i ‘oi aku kāna uku 'ana mai ia῾u, ua mau nō ka'u lawelawe 'ana ma lalo ona


20. Please break down this sentence. I don’t understand. (uku) = ‘pay’, (ka'u) = ‘to me’,

Inā i lawa ke kālā, ua kūkulu māua/mākou i ka hale.


21. (Inā i lawa ke kālā) <- what does ‘i’ and ‘ke’ mean here? Where’s the verb ‘to have’ ?

Thank you and I can't wait to see part 2. :)

Mamo
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Postby Mamo » 2007-10-27, 0:38

Aloha kāua, Kman1

Wow. It seems that this forum has been quite active in the last few days. I’m sorry that I haven’t gotten around to posting part 2 yet. I’ve been really busy lately with midterms and papers. Also, I’m glad to see that Nohola is here to help everyone and to share his mana῾o :D. Several brains are better than one.

Kman1, I love your quest for language :D. What would be easier for you to do is to work from the bottom up in Hawaiian rather than from top down. It would be much easier for you to understand more complex patterns and for me to explain them if you already understand the basic stuff.

Now back to your questions.

kman1 wrote:Hi Mamo, thanks for the corrections so far in part 1. I have questions about what you wrote. (which was great)

‘Ōlelo au i ka ‘ōlelo Paniolo.


1. a. why is the verb used by itself? Isn’t ‘ke…nei’ present tense? How are these different? b. why did you put ‘ka’ here? isn’t that the definite article?


a) The verb is used by itself (without ke ... nei) because a verb without any aspect markers (ke ... nei, e ... ana, ua ...) is the pattern for "simple present tense," which often infers habitual action. Examples in English are "I eat food; I go to the beach; She drives a Honda. I speak Spanish." It is an action that one "does." Ke ... nei, however, is the pattern used to describe something that is going on right now, and close in vicinity. If you were to say "Ke ‘ōlelo nei au i ka ‘ōlelo Paniolo," you would be saying "I am speaking Spanish (at this very moment)."

b)Yes, ke/ka is the singular definite article. In the sentence above, I wrote "I speak the Spanish language." One could also say, "‘Ōlelo Paniolo au," which would be more approximate to the English "I speak Spanish."

But before I move on, this brings up a chance for me to explain more about ke/ka. Although we call it a "singular definite article" and give it the translation "the," it is often used more generically. For example, when we try to translate English sentences where a noun is preceded by no article, we often place ke/ka in front of the corresponding noun in the Hawaiian sentence. For example:

i) I gave money to her.
Note that "money" has no article. A corresponding Hawaiian sentence would be:
Ua hā῾awi aku au i ke kālā iā ia.
Kālā means "money," but notice how it is preceded by ke. A rule of thumb that some people use is to place ke/ka in front of nouns that are not being preceded by articles in the English sentence.

Another point I must make is although it is called a "singular/definite article," it can contain a plural meaning that you could pick up through the context of the sentence. For example:

ii) Chiefs are chiefs because of the people.
Notice the the underlined nouns are plural. A corresponding sentence in Hawaiian could be:

I ali'i ke ali'i i ke kanaka.
Notice that the corresponding nouns are preceded by ke/ka.

kman1 wrote:
Ua ‘ai au i kekahi kuki (i) ‘elima mau minuke aku nei.


3. a. ‘kekahi’ ? b. why is ‘i’ in parenthesis? c. ‘minuke’ = ‘minute’ & ‘mau minuke’ = ‘minutes’ ?


a. Kekahi is used for "a/an." If a noun in Hawaiian has a preposition before it, and you want to have an article corresponding to a/an in front of the noun, you cannot use he (a/an) because he cannot be preceded by any preposition other than me, and in the case when it is preceded by me, something completely different is produced. "Me he _____" is a pattern used to mean "Like/similar to a ______."
So, when the noun is preceded by a preposition, and we want an article in front of the noun that corresponds to "a/an," we can substitute kekahi for he. This is common usage.
I could go a little deeper after this an explain that kekahi is actually different from he in that kekahi refers to a particular item from a category rather than just any item from a category, which is what "he" refers to. But I'd be digressing.

b) (i) is in parenthesis because it is optional. It has been my experience that when numbers are used as articles, the preposition that would precede it is omitted.

c) Kekahi mau means "some," because "some" is the plural of "a/an." My sentence corresponds more closely to saying "I ate a cookie some minutes ago."

kman1 wrote:
I ka wā a kona mau mākua i kūkulu ai i ka hale, ua ma῾i ‘o ia.


5. I think I understand this sentence. However there are some words that I’m unsure of though. a. ‘I ka wā a kona mau mākua’ <- what does the ‘a’ mean? b. ‘i kūkulu ai’ <- what is ‘i…ai’ ?


a) A is a possessive. Possessives are often used in subject relative clauses.

b) I ... ai is another part of the subject relative clause used in the sentence above. The "i" refers to the idea that the action is completed, and the "ai" is simply a part of the pattern that follows the verb.

This is a very complex, advanced topic that would take at least a couple of complete lessons for me to completely explain, and it would take a decent amount of understanding of Hawaiian on the readers part to really understand. If you're up to it, here is an excellent write up on relative clauses done by Dr. Emily Hawkins http://www.uatuahine.hawaii.edu/papa/ha ... pepeke.pdf

kman1 wrote:
I ka ho῾omaka ‘ana o kēia makahiki, ua ma῾i ‘o ia, akā, ua ola hou mai nō.


6. a. (‘ana) <- so this word nominalizes the word preceding it not the word following it, right? b. ‘ua ola hou mai nō’ <- what does ‘ua’, ‘mai nō’, and ‘ola’ mean here? ‘hou’ = ‘again’ right?


a. Yes, 'ana nominalizes the word preceding it, not the word following it.

b. "Ua" is the aspect marker used to show achieved state/completed action. "Ola" means to recover, "mai" is a directional marker corresponding to "hither,"nō" is often defined as "definitely" but it is not restricted to that meaning. It is a frequently used as an intensifier. "Ua ola hou mai nō" means "became better again.


kman1 wrote:
Ua hakihaki kona wāwae, no laila, ‘a῾ole i hiki iā ia ke hele mai i ke kula.


7. a. ‘Ua hakihaki kona wāwae’ <this> ‘ke hele’ ? f. ‘i ke kula’ <what> (῾O ka ha῾alele) here you put (ka), why? b. (nō ia o῾u) <- where did (o῾u) come from? c. (ko῾u ha῾alele) <- you put (ko῾u) here since the sentence is referring to me, right? d. (a i ka maopopo ῾ana ia῾u) and (he mau ‘elelū nō) <- I don’t understand these two sections.


a. I don’t understand your question. Can you verbalize what it is that you want to know?

b. O'u is the k-less form of ko'u. It is postposed because what is possessed is already preceded by an article. For example, to say “my house,” the two following examples are possible:

ko῾u hale = my house
ka hale o῾u = the house of me

c. I put “ko῾u” there because I am saying “my leaving.”

d. I’m going to have to explain a couple of things now. First, maopopo is a stative verb that means “understood,” and its subject is what is understood, but it is not the thing that does the understanding. The thing that does the understanding is in a prepositional phrase. Here is an example:

Maopopo kēia analula ia῾u = I understand this pattern.

“Maopopo” (understood) is the verb, and “kēia analula” (this pattern) is the subject. “Ia῾u” (to me) is the prepositional phrase. What the sentence means is “this pattern is understood/understandable/known to me.” Some more examples:

Maopopo kēia ha῾awina i ka haumana = The student understands this lesson. (Literally, this lesson is understood to the student).
Maopopo ka ‘ōlelo Pelekāne iā ‘oe = You understand English. (Literally, English is understood to you).

Very often, in maopopo sentences the prepositional phrase is moved up between the verb and the subject. This is more frequent when the thing that is doing the understanding, which is in the prepositional phrase, is a pronoun or proper noun. For example:

Maopopo ia῾u kēia analula.
Maopopo iā ‘oe ka ‘ōlelo Pelekāne.

“I ka maopopo ‘ana ia῾u” means “at the understanding to me,” and it substitutes the English “When I understood.” Here are more examples of sentences like this:

I ko῾u hele ‘ana = at my going (When I went).
I ka nānā ‘ana o ke koholā = at the sight of the whale (When the whale saw).

“He mau ‘elelū nō” means “there are some roaches.” “He ____ nō” is a pattern used to show something exists. For example,
He i῾a nō = there is a fish.
He mau kāne nō = there are men.

kman1 wrote:
‘Ekolu o῾u mau hola i moe iho ai i laila a ho’i i ka hiamoe.


11. a. (o῾u) ? b. (i moe iho) ? c. (ai i laila) ? d. (a ho’i i ka hiamoe) ?


a) O'u is the k-less form of ko'u. When we are saying that someone or something owns a particular number of something, we use the following pattern:

Number + k-less possessive + thing possessed

or

Number + thing possessed + k-less possessive

For example:

‘Elima āu keiki = you have five children.
Kanakolu ona makahiki = he has thirty years (which is how we express “he is thirty years old”).

b) In reference to “ ‘Ekolu o῾u mau hola i moe iho ai,” I find it a little more difficult to explain the structure. It is built in the same way as the subject relative clause, and we often use it in sentences like this:
He lived there for 30 days = Kanakolu ona lā i noho ai i laila.
He studied Hawaiian for 20 years = Iwakālua ona makahiki i ho῾opa῾aha῾awina ai i ka ‘ōlelo Hawai῾i.

c) It means “and then went to bed.”

kman1 wrote:
Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana, ua ‘ai ‘oe no ‘umi mau minuke.


12. a. (Ke pau ka῾u) ? b. (no) = ‘for’, right?


a. “Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana” means "when my eating is done." The "ke" being used here is not the same as te singular definite article. "Ke" here means "when, if."

b. Yes, "no" means "for."

kman1 wrote:
Makemake ‘o ia e ho῾i aku au i ka home.


13. (e) = ‘that’ ??


No. “E” here marks the agent, and means “by.” Also, in sentences like the one above, we just combine two whole sentences without placing the an equivalent for the English “that” between the two. For example:

You want me to go to the beach (You want that I go to the beach) = Mamake ‘oe e hele aku au i kahakai.

You want us to do our work (You want that we do our work) = Mamake ‘oe e hana mākou i kā mākou ha῾awina.

kman1 wrote:
Inā ῾a῾ole au i mā῾ona, ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.


14. a. (i mā῾ona) <- what does ‘i’ indicate here? b. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- I don’t understand... (kū῾ai) = ‘to buy’,


a. "i" indicates that the verb is completed/achieved. We use it instead of “ua” when the sentence is negated with “‘a῾ole,” and also under many circumstances when “inā” is used.
b. This is another example of a subject relative clause.

kman1 wrote:
Ua papekema ‘ia au he ‘ekolu mau manawa ma mua o ka makahiki 2001 (‘elua kaukani a me ‘ekahi)


18. a. (he ‘ekolu) <- meaning of ‘he’ ? b. (o ka makahiki 2001) <- meaning of ‘o’ c. (a me ‘ekahi) <- meaning of ‘a me’ ??


a. "he" is often placed in front of numbers, but it doesn't change the meaning of the sentence if it is added in front of numbers.

b. "o" here is a possessive, and in this sentence it corresponds with "of" in English. "a me" means "and."

kman1 wrote:
Ke hiki mai ka makahiki 2002, ua papekema ‘ia au he ‘eono mau manawa.


19. (ke hiki mai) ??


a) "ke hiki mai ka makahiki 2002" means "when the year 2002" comes.

kman1 wrote:
Inā i ‘oi aku kāna uku 'ana mai ia῾u, ua mau nō ka'u lawelawe 'ana ma lalo ona


20. Please break down this sentence. I don’t understand. (uku) = ‘pay’, (ka'u) = ‘to me’,


a) “Ka῾u” doesn’t mean “to me.” It means “my.”
Inā i ‘oi aku kāna uku ‘ana mai ia῾u = If his payment to me were greater
ua mau nō ka῾u lawelawe ‘ana ma lalo ona = (then) my serving under him would still be going on.

kman1 wrote:
Inā i lawa ke kālā, ua kūkulu māua/mākou i ka hale.


21. (Inā i lawa ke kālā) <- what does ‘i’ and ‘ke’ mean here? Where’s the verb ‘to have’ ?


a) “i” is being used instead of “ua” because “inā” is at the head of the sentence. “Ke” is the singular definite article. The sentence I wrote means "If the money was enough, we would have built a house." I did not include any verb "to have" in the sentence above. But now that it has been brought up, I must tell you that there are numerous ways to express possession in Hawaiian, and most don't use a verb corresponding to the English "have" in order to express the possession. However, if you want a verb to "have" in the sentence above, you could use the verb "loa'a" and say:
Inā i lawa ke kālā i loa'a iā māua/mākou, ua kūkulu māua/mākou i ka hale.

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Postby kman1 » 2007-10-28, 12:50

i kekahi kuki


3. a. why is the ‘i’ before ‘kehaki’ mandatory?

My sentence corresponds more closely to saying "I ate a cookie some minutes ago."


how can it mean ‘some minutes ago?? you wrote ‘5 min.’ in the sentence…. Also you wrote ‘mau’ not ‘kehaki mau’. So, ‘mau minuke’ does mean ‘minutes’, then??

A is a possessive.


5. so, ‘a kona’ = ‘his’ ?

The "i" refers to the idea that the action is completed


so ‘i’ is a non-intial past tense verb marker? (I took a peek at the link you provided... hehe :) )

"mai" is a directional marker corresponding to "hither"


6. ‘hither’ ??

a. I don’t understand your question. Can you verbalize what it is that you want to know?


7. oops, i put the a question in the wrong section. sorry about that. What I wanted to know here is how ‘i hiki iā ia ke hele mai’ was formed. ‘hiki’ = ‘can’, ‘hele mai’ = ‘come’, the little words are what confused me here. (‘i’ & ‘iā ia ke’)

All of the following should have been under #10 instead of #7. (you probably already noticed that though but just in case you missed it.) so it shouldn’t been like this:

10. (῾O ka ha῾alele) here you put (ka), why? b. (nō ia o῾u) <- where did (o῾u) come from? c. (ko῾u ha῾alele) <- you put (ko῾u) here since the sentence is referring to me, right? d. (a i ka maopopo ῾ana ia῾u) and (he mau ‘elelū nō) <- I don’t understand these two sections.

(btw, no need to answer these questions since you already answered them)

(a ho’i i ka hiamoe) ?


11. a. ‘a ho’i i ka hiamoe’ the ‘a’ here means ‘and’ ? b. what does ‘ka’ mean here?

Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana


12. “Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana” <- how is ‘when’ expressed here?

No. “E” here marks the agent, and means “by.” Also, in sentences like the one above, we just combine two whole sentences without placing the an equivalent for the English “that” between the two.


13. a. ‘e’ comes after the agent that it marks, right? In this case, ‘e’ marks ( ‘o ia ), right? Or do you mean that you just combine the two sentences like:
(makemake ‘o ia + e ho’i aku au ) ?? b. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- would you plx. write a literal English version of this portion of the sentence. The other relative clauses you written up to now I understand but I can’t seem to grasp this one.

a. "he" is often placed in front of numbers, but it doesn't change the meaning of the sentence if it is added in front of numbers.


18. a. so basically ‘he’ doesn’t mean anything when it’s placed in front of numbers? Also, in general, it can always be put in front of numbers but it’s not obligatory, correct? b. so, ‘ma mua o’ = ‘by’ in this context.

a) "ke hiki mai ka makahiki 2002" means "when the year 2002" comes.


19. I think I see a pattern here. ‘ke’ means ‘when’ if added at the beginning a sentence. Is that correct? Only at the beginning?

Inā i ‘oi aku kāna uku ‘ana mai ia῾u = If his payment to me were greater
ua mau nō ka῾u lawelawe ‘ana ma lalo ona = (then) my serving under him would still be going on.


20. ‘i’ indicates the completed aspect (past tense) : ‘ma lalo’ = ‘under’ ; ‘mau nō’ = ‘continue’ ? ; I see that ‘ua’ can also mean to ‘would’ as well. <- Is all that right?

man, you know your native tongue so well! :twisted:

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Postby Mamo » 2007-10-29, 12:36

kman1 wrote:
i kekahi kuki


3. a. why is the ‘i’ before ‘kehaki’ mandatory?


The "i" that I placed before "kekahi" is mandatory because “kekahi kuki” is the object of the sentence, and in Hawaiian, objects are marked with object markers, either “i” or “iā.” If the object is a regular noun, it will be marked with “i.” However, if it is a pronoun or proper noun, it will be marked with “iā.”

kman1 wrote:
My sentence corresponds more closely to saying "I ate a cookie some minutes ago."

how can it mean ‘some minutes ago?? you wrote ‘5 min.’ in the sentence…. Also you wrote ‘mau’ not ‘kehaki mau’. So, ‘mau minuke’ does mean ‘minutes’, then??


Sorry. I made a mistake in the last post. When I looked at your question and saw that you were asking what “kekahi mau” meant, I thought that I wrote “Ua ‘ai au i kekahi kuki i kekahi mau minuke aku nei” instead of “Ua ‘ai au i kekahi kuki i ‘elima mau minuke aku nei.” The first Hawaiian sentence in the paragraph I’m writing right now is the sentence that I accidentally thought I wrote, and the second one is the one that I originally wrote. So don’t mind my reference to “some minutes ago” in my last post. The real sentence does say “5 minutes ago.”

“Mau” is most often used in conjunction with articles (this, that, my, a/an) to make nouns plural. For example

Ka῾u keiki = my child
Ka’u mau keiki = my children

Kēia haumana = this student
Kēia mau haumana = these students

When we come to the definite article, though, we have an acception. “Ke/ka” is pluralized by substituting “nā.”

Ka pākaukau = the desk
Nā pākaukau = the desks

Because mau, as a pluralizer, is most often used in conjunction with an article, I have come to feel like it is a partner to the article. This doesn’t mean that it can’t occur on its own, without an article. For example, some speakers say “mau makahiki aku nei,” meaning “years ago” (a long time ago).

One could even say, "Ua huli aku nei 'o ia i mau wa'a e holo ai" meaning "He searched for some canoes in order to travel." Notice how there is no article in front of "mau." Because it is not preceded by an article, the noun is very unspecific/indefinite, perhaps even more so than if "he" were placed there. I know that now you are thinking "But didn't you just say in your last post that 'he' can't be used as the article of the object." Well, it can't be used in this case if we are to say "i he mau wa'a," which is wrong, but grammatically, you could delete the object marker and say "ua huli aku nei 'o ia he mau wa'a e holo ai."

kman1 wrote:
A is a possessive.


5. so, ‘a kona’ = ‘his’ ?


The "i" refers to the idea that the action is completed


so ‘i’ is a non-intial past tense verb marker? (I took a peek at the link you provided... hehe :) )


In the phrase "I ka wā a kona mau mākua," there are two possessives. One k-possessive, kona (his/hers), and one k-less possessive, A. Usually, in tranlsation we'll make "a" and "o" out to be something like "of" because it fits nicely into translation. So "a kona mau mākua" would come out to mean "of his parents." The relationship between the possessives and the verb in this particular sentence will seem confusing because this is a subjet relative clause. Thus far, I have had the hardest time explaining a simple rule.

kman1 wrote:
"mai" is a directional marker corresponding to "hither"


6. ‘hither’ ??


Hither means "toward me."

kman1 wrote:
a. I don’t understand your question. Can you verbalize what it is that you want to know?


7. oops, i put the a question in the wrong section. sorry about that. What I wanted to know here is how ‘i hiki iā ia ke hele mai’ was formed. ‘hiki’ = ‘can’, ‘hele mai’ = ‘come’, the little words are what confused me here. (‘i’ & ‘iā ia ke’)

All of the following should have been under #10 instead of #7. (you probably already noticed that though but just in case you missed it.) so it shouldn’t been like this:

10. (῾O ka ha῾alele) here you put (ka), why? b. (nō ia o῾u) <- where did (o῾u) come from? c. (ko῾u ha῾alele) <- you put (ko῾u) here since the sentence is referring to me, right? d. (a i ka maopopo ῾ana ia῾u) and (he mau ‘elelū nō) <- I don’t understand these two sections.

(btw, no need to answer these questions since you already answered them)


1) The pattern for "X can Y," where X is the subject and Y is the verb, is:

Hiki i article + X ke Y

or if X is a pronoun or proper noun

Hiki iā X ke Y

For example:

a) Hiki i ke keiki ke heluhelu = The child can read.
b) Hiki iā 'oe ke heluhelu = You can read.

2) I put "ka" in "'O ka ha'alele nō ia" because it ha'alele is being nominalized. The sentence literally means "It is/was my going," and is used as a pattern to mean "and then I went." I believe I explained the rest in my last post.

kman1 wrote:
(a ho’i i ka hiamoe) ?


11. a. ‘a ho’i i ka hiamoe’ the ‘a’ here means ‘and’ ? b. what does ‘ka’ mean here?


Ka means "the." Refer to what I wrote about using "ka" being used generically and in front of nouns in circumstances where they don't take articles in English.

kman1 wrote:
Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana


12. “Ke pau ka῾u ‘ai ‘ana” <- how is ‘when’ expressed here?


When is expressed in that this "Ke" means "when/whevenver."

kman1 wrote:
No. “E” here marks the agent, and means “by.” Also, in sentences like the one above, we just combine two whole sentences without placing the an equivalent for the English “that” between the two.


13. a. ‘e’ comes after the agent that it marks, right? In this case, ‘e’ marks ( ‘o ia ), right? Or do you mean that you just combine the two sentences like:
(makemake ‘o ia + e ho’i aku au ) ?? b. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- would you plx. write a literal English version of this portion of the sentence. The other relative clauses you written up to now I understand but I can’t seem to grasp this one.


I made another mistake. I thought I was refering to a passive sentence, but I wasn't. In the sentence "Makemake 'o ia e ho'i aku au i ka home," It means "He/she wants (that) I go home>" E doesn't mean "by" here and it doesn't mark the agent in this sentence; it would in a passive sentence. This kind of sentence is just constructed by combining two complete sentences:

makemake 'o ia = he wants
+
e ho'i aku au i ka hiamoe = i go home

Makemake 'o ia (+) e ho'i aku au i ka hiamoe = he wants (that) I go home.


kman1 wrote:
a. "he" is often placed in front of numbers, but it doesn't change the meaning of the sentence if it is added in front of numbers.


18. a. so basically ‘he’ doesn’t mean anything when it’s placed in front of numbers? Also, in general, it can always be put in front of numbers but it’s not obligatory, correct? b. so, ‘ma mua o’ = ‘by’ in this context.


1) Yes, he doesn't change the meaning when it is placed in front of numbers. I would say that it can always be put in front of numbers unless it is preceded by any other preposition than "me."

2) Yes, it does in this context. But what it really means is "before."

kman1 wrote:
a) "ke hiki mai ka makahiki 2002" means "when the year 2002" comes.


19. I think I see a pattern here. ‘ke’ means ‘when’ if added at the beginning a sentence. Is that correct? Only at the beginning?


Not necessarily. You could say:

Ke ho'i au i ka home, e 'ai ana au = When/if I get home, I'm going to eat.
or
E 'ai ana au ke ho'i aku i ka hiamoe = I'm going to eat when/if I get home.

kman1 wrote:
Inā i ‘oi aku kāna uku ‘ana mai ia῾u = If his payment to me were greater
ua mau nō ka῾u lawelawe ‘ana ma lalo ona = (then) my serving under him would still be going on.


20. ‘i’ indicates the completed aspect (past tense) : ‘ma lalo’ = ‘under’ ; ‘mau nō’ = ‘continue’ ? ; I see that ‘ua’ can also mean to ‘would’ as well. <- Is all that right?

man, you know your native tongue so well! :twisted:


1) Yes, "i" indicates completed aspect and substitues for "ua" if it is negated by 'a'ole, in certain instances with inā, in relative clauses, actor emphatic sentences, and perhaps there are some others that are not coming readily to my mind right now.
2) Yes, "ua" can be used for "would," "ma lalo" means under," and "mau nō" means "continute."

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Postby kman1 » 2007-10-30, 6:27

11. Ka means "the." Refer to what I wrote about using "ka" being used generically and in front of nouns in circumstances where they don't take articles in English.


But ‘sleep’ (hiamoe) is a verb not a noun… so what would ‘ka’ indicate here?

13. Makemake 'o ia (+) e ho'i aku au i ka hiamoe = he wants (that) I go home.


‘hiamoe’ = ‘sleep’ not ‘house’, right??

14. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- would you plx. write a literal English version of this portion of the sentence. The other relative clauses you written up to now I understand but I can’t seem to grasp this one.

E 'ai ana au ke ho'i aku i ka hiamoe = I'm going to eat when/if I get home.


‘hiamoe’ = ‘sleep’ right?

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Postby Mamo » 2007-10-30, 7:03

Sweet Jesus, three consecutive posts with mistakes - I must be on drugs :shock: Yeah, you're right. I should have put "home" to mean home. Maybe I wrote "ho'i i ka hiamoe" somewhere else and accidentally put it there too. Anyway, these are too many mistakes one after the next, even in the English parts, due to carelessness. I'll make sure to edit before I write in this section from now on.

kman1 wrote:
11. Ka means "the." Refer to what I wrote about using "ka" being used generically and in front of nouns in circumstances where they don't take articles in English.


But ‘sleep’ (hiamoe) is a verb not a noun… so what would ‘ka’ indicate here?

13. Makemake 'o ia (+) e ho'i aku au i ka hiamoe = he wants (that) I go home.


‘hiamoe’ = ‘sleep’ not ‘house’, right??

14. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- would you plx. write a literal English version of this portion of the sentence. The other relative clauses you written up to now I understand but I can’t seem to grasp this one.

E 'ai ana au ke ho'i aku i ka hiamoe = I'm going to eat when/if I get home.


‘hiamoe’ = ‘sleep’ right?

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Postby Ariki » 2007-10-30, 21:52

I've been watching this thread for a while.

Are you taking any grammar courses kman1 because these questions look very much like questions that first year Polynesian language students ask.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby Ariki » 2007-10-30, 22:21

If Mamo doesn't mind I'll help out with explaining the parts of Hawai'ian grammar that I know I can. I'm quoting from Mamo so this post is directed at you kman1.

In the phrase "I ka wā a kona mau mākua," there are two possessives. One k-possessive, kona (his/hers), and one k-less possessive, A. Usually, in tranlsation we'll make "a" and "o" out to be something like "of" because it fits nicely into translation. So "a kona mau mākua" would come out to mean "of his parents." The relationship between the possessives and the verb in this particular sentence will seem confusing because this is a subjet relative clause. Thus far, I have had the hardest time explaining a simple rule.


That use of "i" is not a tense-aspect-marker. It is not marking a verb. That use of "i" is the past preposition "at, on, by".

By using "mau" you're suggesting "plural". In Polynesian culture people who can qualify as your parents extend beyond natural father and natural mother and can include aunts, uncles and people whom you look up to.

In the future kman1, I strongly suggest that you do not ask so many questions at once in a single post since it is evidently very tiring. I refer you back to what I wrote about the sentence example at the start of this post. I only went through one example but look at how much I typed. Now, imagine if I did that with every single one of your sentences. I think you should limit how many you ask so that it is more manageable for Mamo since he not only has to correct what you've written but then explain. I think 5 questions at a time would be much more manageable.

You're eagerness to learn Hawai'ian is commendable but please keep in mind that we're all human and activating two languages at once and activating our knowledge of analysing those languages can be very very tiring.

I also suggest that you enroll in UoH Hawai'ian language course since the rigorous training will help you progress from this stage.
Last edited by Ariki on 2007-10-30, 22:35, edited 1 time in total.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

Nero

Postby Nero » 2007-10-31, 2:42

I think the problem is wrapping our English (or Indo-European) minds around the completely reversed grammar of the Polynesian languages.

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Postby Ariki » 2007-10-31, 3:05

I think the problem is wrapping our English (or Indo-European) minds around the completely reversed grammar of the Polynesian languages.


Thats to be expected when you learn a language that is not related at all to your native.

Just don't flood people with questions. Focus on one area of the grammmar and then move out...
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.

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Postby kman1 » 2007-11-01, 12:41

Hi riki,

My intend isn't to flood anyone with a ton of questions. I have no way of knowing how long an answer a question warrants. Some of the ones I've posted are handled with an easy fix, others as you see take longer since the concepts are a bit harder to grasp. With Hawai'ian, it seems that there are more cases of lengthy posts instead of short fixes. I'll keep that in mind. thanks for the feedback. :)

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Postby kman1 » 2007-11-01, 12:45

11. Ka means "the." Refer to what I wrote about using "ka" being used generically and in front of nouns in circumstances where they don't take articles in English.


so what would ‘ka’ indicate here?

14. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- would you plx. write a literal English version of this portion of the sentence. The other relative clauses you written up to now I understand but I can’t seem to grasp this one.

That's ok. I make plenty of mistakes too as you see in my posts. So we are in the same boat. :lol:

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Postby Mamo » 2007-11-09, 5:08

kman1 wrote:
11. Ka means "the." Refer to what I wrote about using "ka" being used generically and in front of nouns in circumstances where they don't take articles in English.


so what would ‘ka’ indicate here?


In the sentence “Ke makemake nei ‘o ia e ho῾i aku au i ka home,” as I explained before, ka means “the.” It literally means “He wants me to go to the home.” We put “ka” in front of the noun because in Hawaiian we normally don’t have nouns without determiners in front of them, and if no other determiner is expressed before the English noun (i.e., this, that, my) we tend to place “ka” in front. So, if we say “I will go to school” we will say E hele aku ana au i ke kula. Ke/ka will be used because of the reasons mentioned above - there is no determiner in front of “school” in the English sentence, and because we must normally have determiners in front of nouns in Hawaiian, we automatically use “ka” in the Hawaiian sentence.

Before you ask anymore questions or leave another set of sentences for me to translate and explain, you should take the initiative to do some learning on your own so that I will not have to break apart all of the simple things. It is very time consuming to explain larger structures when the person I’m explaining them to has absolutely no understanding of any of the basics of the language. I should not have to explain what ka (the) means to someone asking questions about complex sentences. Searching the dictionary (for both Hawaiian and English) would clear up many of your questions, so that I would not have to explain to you the meaning of “ka,” or what the meaning of the English word “hither” is in the Hawaiian language forum.

kman1 wrote:14. (ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai.) <- would you plx. write a literal English version of this portion of the sentence. The other relative clauses you written up to now I understand but I can’t seem to grasp this one.


Since there was some confusion in this not only for you, but for another person who communicated to me via PM, I will break this down. “Ua nui aku ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai” means “The food that I bought would have been greater.” This is an example of a subject relative clause.

In a relative clause structure, a simple sentence (referred to as the relative clause) modifies a noun, called the head noun since it is at the head. There are two basic kinds of relative clauses: Type A relative clauses (called subjectless relative clauses) and Type B relative clauses (called subject relative clauses). In a subjectless relative clause, the subject of the relative clause is the same as the head noun, so it is not restated. For example:

Ka ‘ai i kū῾ai ‘ia mai
= the food that was bought

In the sentence above, the head noun is “ ‘ai” (food) and the relative clause is “i kū῾ai ‘ia mai” ([that] was bought). The subject of the relative clause is “ ‘ai,” which is also the head noun, so it is not restated.

In a subject relative clause, the subject of the relative clause is not the same as the head noun. Because of this, the subject of the relative clause is expressed through possession of the head noun, and the anaphoric particle “ ai” occurs at the end of the verb phrase in the relative clause. To put it another way, the possessor of the head noun is the subject of the relative clause. Here is an examples of an English subject relative clause:

1. The food that I bought.

In the sentence above, “food” is the head noun, and the relative clause “that I bought” which modifies the head noun has a different subject than the head noun. That is, the subject of the relative clause is “I.”

As stated before, the subject of the relative clause will take the form of the possessor of the head noun. In the case of the phrase “the food that I bought,” the Hawaiian sentence would be:
1. Ka῾u ‘ai i kū῾ai mai ai
or
2. Ka ‘ai a῾u i kū῾ai mai ai


Let’s look at the first sentence. The head noun is “ ‘ai.” Because the subject of the relative clause is not the same as the head noun (῾ai), it is shown as the possessor of the head noun (ka῾u). In the second sentence, all is the same except I said ka ___ a῾u (the ___ of me) rather than ka῾u ___ (My ___ ). Both ways of showing possession are common in Hawaiian, and in reference to the two sentences above, they both indicate possession of the head noun and therefore express the subject of the relative clause.

Hopefully, this explanation of relative clauses clears up some of the confusion.

For more clarification, read this http://www.uatuahine.hawaii.edu/papa/ha ... pepeke.pdf

Read my explanation and then the pdf. If you have any questions after doing BOTH, then I will answer them.

Edit: Also, everyone, please stop writing Hawaiian as Hawai'ian. I've had a sticky about it for a very long time. The word "Hawaiian" is an English term that refers to something originating from Hawai'i, or the Hawaiian language itself, and it is never pronounced Hawai'ian. This is a bad habit people have, and I want to nip it in the bud here.

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Postby Mamo » 2008-01-10, 2:47

edit: Okay, if you look above my post, you'll see that kman1's post, which I'm responding to here, is missing. That's because i went back to try to edit one of my own posts, but ended up editing his by accident, so his entire post ended up being a duplicate of this post here, only under his name, so I deleted it. Sorry about that kman1. I'll make sure this doesn't happen again.


kman1 wrote:
ka wä e loa‘a ai ‘o ka i‘a a ho‘i mai nä wa‘a,


I wonder why (ai) is only put after (e loa‘a ai) but not after the second verb (ho’i mai). Actually, the second verb isn’t conjugated at all. hmm..?


Hawaiian doesn't conjugate verbs, but if you're talking about the second verb not having an aspect marker (e) and the anaphoric particle (ai) like the first verb does, it's because it doesn't have to in this case since the second verb is preceded by a which means "and."

However, it wouldn't be incorrect to say the following:

Ka wā e loa‘a ai ‘o ka i‘a a e ho‘i mai ai nā wa‘a
or
Ka wā e loa‘a ai ‘o ka i‘a a ho‘i mai ai nā wa‘a.



kahi e kau ana ‘o nä wa‘a o kanaka,


in the pdf, this sentence is translated “at the place where the people's canoes were landing” but this sentence can also mean “at the place where the people's canoes are landing” the (e kau ana) indicates the progressive tense, either present or past, right?


Correct. E ... ana shows that the verb is incomplete/ongoing, regardless without regard to whether the event was in the past, is in the present, or hasn't occurred yet.

nä hana a pau äna i häkilo ai


this sentence could also be written “äna nä hana a pau i häkilo ai” and mean the same thing, right?


Close. I think you have the idea, though. You meant to take the sentence “nā hana a pau āna i hākilo ai,” where the possessive comes right after the thing possessed in the form of a k-less possessive, and instead put the possessive in the front, right?

First, let’s look at the possessive structure used in the original sentence:
Nā hana a pau āna.

So, what is possessed is “nā hana a pau,” and it is encapsuled in “nā _____ āna,” which means “the (plural) of him/her,” which altogether means “the actions of him or her” (We will get back to this in a second, since it requires an extra step in explaining since this is a subject relative clause). As you can see, this structure is made up of a determiner (nā, in this example) preceding the possessed, and the k-less possessive (āna, in this example) following the possessed. That is the pattern.

However, in the case where the possessive is moved to the front, like what you wanted to do, it takes the form of a k-possessive, and it is a determiner. K-possessives, like almost every other determiner than ke/ka, are pluralized with mau. As we know, the k-possessive form of the k-less āna is kāna, so for the possessive phrase, we will say:

Kāna mau hana a pau.

Now, I need to clarify a bit. If you just look at the possessive phrase, you might think that this means “all the actions of him/her” or “all his/her actions.” But, since the phrase is followed by “i hākilo ai,” then we know this is a subject relative clause, and the sentence means “All the actions that he/she observed.”


...nä mea a pau a Päka‘a e mälama ana,


this could be also translated as “all of the things that Päka‘a is caring for” as well, right?


Correct again.

ka wä a nä känaka pü‘ä mälolo e holo ai ...


so the tense in sentences like these can vary a lot it seems. This sentence could be seen as:

when the fishermen WOULD sail (conditional)
when the fishermen SAILED (past)
when the fishermen sail (imperfect)


I'm no longer keen on categories, so I'll explain this in an easier way for me. I would say:

When the fishermen will sail
When the fishermen sail (either future, or like saying "whenever the fishermen sail")
When the fishermen sailed (like they always did)

ka wä na‘e o Keawenuia‘umi mä i holo mai ai mai Hawai‘i mai ...


on p.9 of the pdf, this sentence is listed. I wonder why (na’e) is listed after (ka wä)… seems odd…


To me it sounds fine to put na‘e after ka wā.

kahi o kahi wa‘a ‘u‘uku e lana mai ana.


this could be:

(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe was anchored
(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe is anchored
(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe was anchoring
(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe is anchoring


This is where I have to admit I'll have problems. Since Riki is more keen on tenses than me, I want to ask him what aspects or tenses these four English sentences fall into, and how they would relate to E ___ ana in his language.

For now (proceed with caution), I will say that the last two sentences are appropriate. The first one, however, seems to indicate completion to me, unlike e ___ ana would indicate. In the second sentence, it still seems to indicate completion to me, so I wouldn't use that for e ___ ana.

I would say that the last two are fine, and I would add one more:

Where the canoes will be anchoring.

We will go over this again.

kahi a läkou nei e lana ana, / kahi a läua nei i lana ai


I’m having a hard time figuring out what (nei) means in these two sentences. The dictionary says:
Following nouns and pronouns, nei means ‘this’ and may indicate affection.

I still don’t quite understand it’s meaning here…


Nei indicates closeness. In the sentence you mentioned, lāua nei means "they two here" or "these two."

kahi a läua nei i lana ai


this could also mean: ‘where they were anchored’


Yes.

kou wa‘a e holo aku ai i ka lawai‘a.


this can also mean:

a/the canoe that you can sail to go fishing (with)
a/the canoe that you are sailing to go fishing (with)
a/the canoe that you will sail to go fishing (with)
a/the canoe that you would sail to go fishing (with)


Yes.

He aha kä käkou e holo aku ai ..." (kä käkou mea/kumu e holo aku ai)


a. in other sentences, where a preposed possessive stands alone like this without a noun, is it safe to assume that understood noun is ‘mea’ since it can be deleted?
b. On another note, this sentence could also be:

Why are we sailing?
Why will we sail?
Why do we sail?


a. Yes, you can assume that it is "mea" most of the time. But sometimes when there is a preposed possessive without a noun following it, it could be "wa/manawa" (time) that was left out.

b. Yes. Remember that the "why" here is shown by actually saying "what is our reason" for sailing.

kona mau mea e pono ai


this could also be:

the thing he is successful in.
the thing that will make him successful.
the thing that makes him successful.


Yes.

ke kumu o Kawelo e make ai,


could also be:

the reason Kawelo is dying
the reason Kawelo will die
the reason that’s causing Kawelo to die
the reason that would cause Kawelo to die


Yes.

i wahi no Päka‘a e hä‘ule ai i lalo,...


could also be:

a/the place where Paka’a might fall down
a/the place where Paka’a falling down
a/the place where Paka’a falls down
a/the place where Paka’a would fall down


Yes.

ka mea näna i ho‘okananuha i ka na‘au o nä mäkua.


in the pdf, this is ’ the one who made the parents upset’ I think a better translation is:

The thing he did that made his parents upset.


Mea can mean "person" in addition to "thing."

këlä mau make o‘u äu i kokua ai ia‘u


I’m curious. Could another word be used instead of (ia’u) and mean the same thing?


You could use another phrase to substitute "ia'u" which describes yourself, like if you are a man's younger brother, instead of saying "ia'u" (me) you could say "kou kaikaina" (your younger sibling of same gender). The same can be done in English. But here, I can't see a substitute for "ia'u." Sometimes "io'u" is used, but usually it means "to my presence/vicinity/person."

ka lä mua a ke keiki i ha‘alele ai iä Hawai‘i, a holo mai ai


(ai) means ‘there’. Is there a typo in this sentence or in the translation OR does (ai) mean something totally different in this case?


The sentence is correct. Both verbs are referring back to "ka la mua." I'll put the relative clause in parenthesis:

Ka lā mua (a ke keiki i ha‘alele ai iā Hawai‘i, a holo mai ai).

The first day (that the child left Hawai'i, and sailed here).

e kü ai käna mäkaia.


why is (käna) translated as ‘you’ instead of ‘his’?


It should be "his/her" instead of "your." When I looked back at the pdf, the text directly under the Hawaiian words was correct, but the full translated sentence wasn't, only because of not using "his" for "kāna."

ko‘u mau ‘äina a pau i lilo wale aku ai iä ha‘i,


I know that this is an exception to the rule but how would you know that this is a subjectless relative clause? This looks just like a subj. relative clause to me. <- (this is on p.13 of the pdf) I immediately translated this as:

(the lands I just lost to someone else) but my translation is incorrect, though.


If we were to translate this as a subject relative clause, since this is an o-possessive and a stative verb, it would mean "the lands where I became the property of (was lost to) someone else." If not, then it would mean "my lands that just became the property of (lost from me, to their possession) to someone else."

The only way to tell is through context.

këia kapa i loa‘a ai iä ‘oe?


I’ve been looking at this exception for the last 20 min. this one is a bit confusing. My head aches…  (the problem i have here is that I understand this sentence fine but if you ask me to explain this sentence, I'm at a loss for words...)


Just take away the "ai," and it shouldn't be confusing anymore. Perhaps what confuses you here is the structure used with loa'a.

In a loa'a sentence, (to have), the subject of the sentence is what is possessed, and the possessor of the sentence is in the preposition phrase. Like this:

Loa'a ia 'oe ke kapa/ loa'a ke kapa ia 'oe = the kapa is gotten to you (you have the kapa).

So, "kēia kapa i loa‘a aku ai iā ‘oe," can be understood as "this kapa that was gotten to you" (this kapa that you had/have).

Another confusing point might be that this uses "i" as the aspect marker, since it indicates completion, and you might associate that with just past tense, and be confused since the English translation is "have" instead of "had." However, the completed aspect just shows that action of obtaining the kapa is complete, so the person could still have the kapa, hence the English translation in the present tense.


Ok, I have finished reading that pdf. So, the Hawaiian we’re learning is the ‘university dialect’? haha.. 8)


Not really. These are examples from Hawaiian literature from over a century ago.

Good job. Your questions show that you have a good understanding of the reading. Let me know if you need further clarification. :D

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Ariki
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Postby Ariki » 2008-01-10, 11:47

Mamo wrote:
kahi o kahi wa‘a ‘u‘uku e lana mai ana.


this could be:

(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe was anchored
(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe is anchored
(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe was anchoring
(a/the place where) where a/the small canoe is anchoring


This is where I have to admit I'll have problems. Since Riki is more keen on tenses than me, I want to ask him what aspects or tenses these four English sentences fall into, and how they would relate to E ___ ana in his language.

For now (proceed with caution), I will say that the last two sentences are appropriate. The first one, however, seems to indicate completion to me, unlike e ___ ana would indicate. In the second sentence, it still seems to indicate completion to me, so I wouldn't use that for e ___ ana.

I would say that the last two are fine, and I would add one more:

Where the canoes will be anchoring.

We will go over this again.


I of course never having studied Hawaiian at a rigourous university level, I offer my opinion with extreme caution.

I quote the following from the Cook Islands Māori Dictionary (by Jasper Buse, ed. by Prof. Bruce Biggs).

ana, particle. The English translation of this particle will vary...according to the time reference (stated or understood) of the sentence in which it occurs. 1.E verb ana, habitual aspect. Translate by the English simple present tense or (when the reference is to past time) by 'used to'. E 'aere ana au ki tē reira 'are teata. I go to that cinema; E tāvarevare 'ua ana 'aia He is always late; E no'o ana 'aia ki Nīkao i tē reira tuātau. He used to live (or was living) at Nīkao then.


According to the New Zealand Māori dictionary
ana, A particle denoting contunance of action or state used after, verbs or adjectives.


Winifred Bauer in her Reed Reference of Māori Grammar writes(paraphrased);

e....ana is a relative tense marker; the time reference is derived from the context. With no context, e....ana is usually interpreted by Māori consultants as present....but can equally be future or past if the context specifies. Its default reading however, is present. E.....ana also has an aspectual value: it marks events as incomplete and on-going at the time specified by the context. E....ana can occur in habitual contexts.


So, the above translations given by Mamo are all possible. However, without any other time reference, I would read e....ana as present by default. Unless if it is known when the action has occured or will occur the default reading should be present.
Linguicide IS genocide. :)

He ingoa ōpaki a Riki; he ingoa ōkawa a Ariki.

Riki is an informal name; Ariki is a formal name.


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