Is anybody interested in Prussian language?

[dirkmath]

The most archaic known indoeuropean language????

What about Mycaenean Greek, Hittite or Sanskrit?
To my knowledge these languages go back until the 2nd millenium BC.

Archaic means that it consists of language elements that was used in language that was brought to Europe back in 2500 BC. I was interpreting a quote by some linguist (don't have that book atm and can't tell his name): "There is no baltistica without Prussian language, as well as there is no slavistica without baltistica and without baltistica and slavistica, there's no entire indoeuropeastica".

Sanscrit and Old Hindi languages aren't the original IDE language as well, coz both branches (the other one that went t Europe) evoloved separately for some time before it was written. Btw, Sanscrit is more like a conlang that was used as an literature language, for spoken the old Hindi was used. Even it's name means "created" (in the old Lithuanian this name would sound like "sankurta", resembles "sanscrit", doesn't it? ). AFAIK Old Greek is less archaic than Old Prussian, but can't tell about Hittite.

Rubbish
This is pure megalomania by someone who thinks his own language is the most important in the world.

You can repeat your sentence with any IE language:
There are no Romance languages without Occitan. You cannot study the Italic languages without the Romance languages. You cannot study Indo-european without studying Italic languages....


From Wikipedia:
Sanskrit is often used to illustrate the conservative nature of the Lithuanian language. Although this latter Baltic language has experienced many innovations which have taken it far from its Indo-European origins, in some aspects of nominal morphology and phonology it is vaguely similar to Sanskrit. For example, the following proverb written in modern Lithuanian and Sanskrit demonstrates these likenesses:

"Dievas dave dantis, Dievas duos duonos" "Devas adat datas, Devas dasyati dhanas" (God gave us teeth, God will give us bread)


And you confuse Epic Sanskrit with Vedic Sanskrit. Epic Sanskrit was indeed a constructed language in the same way modern English is a constructed language. But it can hardly be called a ConLang like Esperanto.
Vedic Sanskrit is the precursor of Sanskrit and is millenia older than Old Hindi. It was certainly a spoken language around 2000 BC. Its original name is not known and because of its use in the Vedas it is nowadays called Vedic Sanskrit.


And Mycaenean Greek was a language spoken between 1500 and 1100 BC, long before the Prussians even existed, let alone spoke something that could be called Prussian (and Mycaenean Greek is still 500 years older than Old Greek).
The only thing we now for sure is that the Baltic languages preserved some ancient features but Sanskrit and Mycaenean Greek have much more ancient features because they were so much closer to Proto Indo European.

[vicza]

From what I met, neuter gender as present in Slavic and Prussian, but not in Eastern Baltic,

It does present in German, too, that doesn't mean, that German is closer to Slavic.

and vocabulary, like mazzitwei 'to be able' (forgot the Russian infinitive), pūtun 'to drink' "pit'" or kwaitītun 'to want' "chotet'" etc.

There is a lot of common words between Lithuanian and Slavic, too. Although not always they are obvious. See šitą straipsnį, for example.

I also found an article on this issue:
http://www.lituanus.org/1987/87_2_01.htm

"Therefore, Slavic never was a dialect of Prussian."

[Mantaz]

Rubbish
This is pure megalomania by someone who thinks his own language is the most important in the world.

Is Prussian my tongue? No.. so why are you blaming me on thinking my language most important in the world? Even if it is important, it's more about IDE language science and the fact is (that you don't like), that Baltic languages plays a key role in this field.

You can repeat your sentence with any IE language:
There are no Romance languages without Occitan. You cannot study the Italic languages without the Romance languages. You cannot study Indo-european without studying Italic languages....

Sure, I didn't say Prussian is the only and most important, but it is very important.

From Wikipedia:
Sanskrit is often used to illustrate the conservative nature of the Lithuanian language. Although this latter Baltic language has experienced many innovations which have taken it far from its Indo-European origins, in some aspects of nominal morphology and phonology it is vaguely similar to Sanskrit. For example, the following proverb written in modern Lithuanian and Sanskrit demonstrates these likenesses:

"Dievas dave dantis, Dievas duos duonos" "Devas adat datas, Devas dasyati dhanas" (God gave us teeth, God will give us bread)

Yes, Lithuanian has experienced innovations, but Prussian has preserved much of it

And you confuse Epic Sanskrit with Vedic Sanskrit. Epic Sanskrit was indeed a constructed language in the same way modern English is a constructed language. But it can hardly be called a ConLang like Esperanto.

But Sanskrit wasn't a natural languages, that's the problem.

Vedic Sanskrit is the precursor of Sanskrit and is millenia older than Old Hindi. It was certainly a spoken language around 2000 BC. Its original name is not known and because of its use in the Vedas it is nowadays called Vedic Sanskrit.

Sanscrit was a literature language that had been constantly perfected and the source of this language was the same Hindi. How the hell did you come up that Sanscrit might be older than Hindi? Do you think in some time people made Sanscrit as literature language and started speaking Hindi? What the hell?

And Mycaenean Greek was a language spoken between 1500 and 1100 BC, long before the Prussians even existed, let alone spoke something that could be called Prussian (and Mycaenean Greek is still 500 years older than Old Greek).

?? Are you kidding me? So these Prussians just come from the Moon or maybe even Mars? Don't you think the languages just don't pop up and people start speaking ones. No, the languages are succeedors of some other ones and some develope through innovations (like English), some stay as conservative and develope really little and Prussian was one of those language, so is Lithuanian.

The only thing we now for sure is that the Baltic languages preserved some ancient features but Sanskrit and Mycaenean Greek have much more ancient features because they were so much closer to Proto Indo European.

Greek was heavily affected by the language that was spoken in that region when indoeuropeans come (probably the same happened to Germanic languages) and so Greek languages are not taken as most archaic ones of IDE family. And fed up on Sanskrit, Old Hindi, as a spoken language should be compared to spoken languages.

[Mantaz]

It does present in German, too, that doesn't mean, that German is closer to Slavic.

There are many phonetic, grammatic and lexicon features that makes languages closer. I'm not linguist, so can't tell you a list of those common features, but linguists say that Prussian is somewhat closer to Slavic than the other Baltic languages, so it wasn't a thing I just made up

There is a lot of common words between Lithuanian and Slavic, too. Although not always they are obvious. See šitą straipsnį, for example.

I think when Balts and Slavs where still in common group (around 1000BC?), common lexicon was shared, but it was also varied among the dialects of Baltic-Slavic. Later these differences in dialects got deeper and were the key factor that Balts and Slavs just spilt up into new groups. So these differencees might have been reflected in some regional languages, as, say, some kind of dialect of Polish has a reflection of Galindian language, as well as my dialect of Lithuanian of phonetic point of view is closer to Latvian than common Lithuanian is just because it was affected by ancient Selonians, which half mixed with Latvians and half with Lithuanians.

"Therefore, Slavic never was a dialect of Prussian."

Yes, there was a mention that the title is just an ironic remark

[hleifr himins]

Hello. I am one of those who could become a tutor of the Prussian language in this forum. Let it be a sufficient reason to create a section of this language at Unilang.

[Mantaz]

^^^ Kails! And welcome to the forums

[dirkmath]

Vedic Sanskrit was the spoken language of the Vedic Civilization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_Sanskrit

And also please read this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo ... n_language

And that's all I have to say about it!

[Mantaz]

Vedic Sanskrit is the language of the Vedas, the earliest sacred texts of India. The earliest of the Vedas, the Rigveda, was composed in the 2nd millennium BC, and use of the Vedic dialect was continued for the composition of religious texts until roughly 500 BC, when the later Classical Sanskrit language began to emerge.

Read the first line again, that's all I can say about your post.

[Glabbis]

Kails! So I could be another tutor for those who would like to learn Prussian.

[Mantaz]

Kails, Glabbi!

[Car]

So you two speak it well enough and are willing to teach it? Then I'd only need to know how Prussian is called in Prussian to create the forum.

[Mantaz]

So you two speak it well enough and are willing to teach it? Then I'd only need to know how Prussian is called in Prussian to create the forum.

Prussian language Prūsiskan

[Glabbis]

Kails Mante! I see that here are lots of strange conversations concerning our language. I am sure that people always start to chat and argue if they don't want to learn. So if we can do something more to start educational process? Then, i din't understand if i could use diacritics right here?

[Mantaz]

Kails Mante! I see that here are lots of strange conversations concerning our language. I am sure that people always start to chat and argue if they don't want to learn. So if we can do something more to start educational process? Then, i din't understand if i could use diacritics right here?

I think none left, now it's up to Car to create the Prussian section And yes, you might use diacritics, althaugh if you use Interent explorer, some diacritics might be seen as strange characters

[Glabbis]

Yes, that is why i ask you, because i see that i cannot read your inscribtions with diacritics, yes, some strange signs. But i can use only IE. So it is a problem if i can't read diacritics. Maybe it is easiear to use our forum where no need to think about it. As for other people from abroad, i doubt that they will have some interest in Prussian because people should have a real motivation. You could not have any motivation if you live somewhere in US. It is not a good thing if some linguists would start to express their opinions here. It would be a wasted time.

[Mantaz]

Yes, that is why i ask you, because i see that i cannot read your inscribtions with diacritics, yes, some strange signs. But i can use only IE. So it is a problem if i can't read diacritics. Maybe it is easiear to use our forum where no need to think about it. As for other people from abroad, i doubt that they will have some interest in Prussian because people should have a real motivation. You could not have any motivation if you live somewhere in US. It is not a good thing if some linguists would start to express their opinions here. It would be a wasted time.

Yes, you have a point here. So maybe we should ask for "Dangus" admins to create a separate section for learning the language, coz in that forum language learning is quite off-topic

Althaugh there's a possibility to turn a needed encoding on in separate sections. I would advice Car how to do it

[Glabbis]

Yes, we can ask Dangus though i think it could be possible. Why not.
On the other hand it is not so important for me where to do it. If it is possible to change encoding for IE, we would do it here or anywhere else though i did't like some phrases here concerning nacionalism because objective opinions and loyality is not for me. Too many different points of view is very BAD! : ))

[Mantaz]

Yes, we can ask Dangus though i think it could be possible. Why not.
On the other hand it is not so important for me where to do it. If it is possible to change encoding for IE, we would do it here or anywhere else though i did't like some phrases here concerning nacionalism because objective opinions and loyality is not for me. Too many different points of view is very BAD! : ))

Well, it's up to Unilang's admins, whether they would accept my proposal, which would require some little code modification. If not, then we might just stick to "Dangus"

Anyway, don't take in mind some people here, this forum is large and so has a very broad set of opinions

[Car]

The forum's now there, but I had problems when I made you moderators, suddenly, everyone was a moderator there, so until now, there's no moderator for the forum, I don't know what went wrong.

Althaugh there's a possibility to turn a needed encoding on in separate sections. I would advice Car how to do it Wink

Could you tell me (us) more about it?

BTW, there is a way to make IE display Unicode properly, Kubi can explain that.

[Mantaz]

The forum's now there, but I had problems when I made you moderators, suddenly, everyone was a moderator there, so until now, there's no moderator for the forum, I don't know what went wrong.

Oh Well, for now it's ok, but later we would need somebody to be a moderator in the forum.

Could you tell me (us) more about it?

BTW, there is a way to make IE display Unicode properly, Kubi can explain that.

Well, that would require to make some changes in phpBB files that would enable encoding overriding. During the weekend I might try to construct an instruction what changes in which files needs to be made, so I'll post them later.

And now, please tell me how to make IE too view characters properly