Phoenician study group

Moderator: Ashucky

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-28, 1:37

Phoenician language was spoken throughout the ancient Mediterranean, its the language of Cadiz, the oldest city in Europe, it was once the official language of the Persian Empire and Spoken in the Ancient Indus Valley. The language diverged into all the Semitic languages today. It deserves a study group.

Phoenician script is unsupported, but can be written in Hebrew, no diacritics, case endings are optional.

בית "House" (ϝοῖκος, vīcus, विश्, viθ)

User avatar
Posts: 13214
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby księżycowy » 2019-09-28, 8:04

As interested as I might be in Phoenician, I have yet to encounter a proper textbook for it. What do you propose for such a study group?

Posts: 55
Joined: 2015-09-02, 9:26
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Eril » 2019-09-28, 14:24

Interesting thread!

But I don't think all modern Semitic languages have Phoenician as their ancestor. According to Wikipedia at least, for example Aramaic goes back to a different branch. But I'm not an expert on Semitic languages.

Hadn't heard of Cadiz before. But it doesn't seem to be the oldest one in Europe: ... ted_cities

And I'm surprised you say Phoenician was spoken in the Indus Valley. At which time?
From what I know, the inscriptions from before speakers of Vedic arrived there found in the Indus Valley are undeciphered (and are extremely unlikely to ever be deciphered).
It would also be new to me that it was spoken in the Persian Empire as the main official language, but that sounds more realistic.

But in any case, good idea to make a study group for this.
I likely won't join in the new future, but it might be interesting. Is there any textbook or other study material you would recommend?

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-28, 16:06

Phoenician language was spoken in the Indus Valley during the Achaemenid Empire, it was the Persians that also styled Phoenician into the Aramaic script and that diverged into the Brahmi script. An example is the Aramaic inscription of Laghman written in Aramaic by the Indian emperor Ashoka around 260 BCE and also the Kandahar Bilingual Rock Inscription written in Aramaic and Greek.

I can't find much information regarding Phoenician language, but there is Biblical Hebrew, but that is too liturgical and accented, i don't believe Phoenician was a liturgical language, but a language optimised for the merchants and trade, hence the reason for its adoption by the Persians.

Phoenician is written right to left, in fact the oldest Latin inscription also written that direction in the same script, this also seems to effect prefixes and suffixes, for example Greek words are suffixed -μα are always prefixed מ- in Phoenician, -τις are ת- for abstract verbs.

σκάνος : שכן
σκάναμα : משכן

δεκάτευμα means tithes and the Phoenician is מעשר
εἴδημα "knowledge' is מדע
ποίημα 'anything that is made' is מפעל

In English, I, you, he, she is put before the verb, this also true for Phoenician, where-as in Latin and Greek, the tenses are suffixed.

אפעל "I (will) make" (ποι, ποιήσω)
תפעל "You (will) make" (ποίεις, ποιήσεις
יפעל "He (will) make" (ποίει, ποιήσει)

The above verbs seem to represent both the Present and Future tense and the Past is the same as above but augmented with a VAV, so this is Aorist.

ואפעל "I made" (ποίησα)
ותפעל "You made" (ποίησας
ויפעל "He made" (ποίησε)

The perfect differs, no tense prefix.

פעלתי "I have made" (πεποίηκα)
פעלת "You have made" (πεποίηκας
פעל "He have made" (πεποίηκε)

User avatar
Posts: 3634
Joined: 2015-08-23, 10:53
Real Name: c
Gender: female

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Antea » 2019-09-28, 16:24

I suppose it is connected with Iberian language (Tartessian language - Paleo Hispanic). :hmm:

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-28, 16:59

I am studying Celtiberian languages for the Phoenicians indeed occupied Ancient Spain, the Spanish conjunction is "Y" is the same letter used in Phoenician for its conjunction and also the use of definite articles.

I figured out the name Tartessos (Ταρτησσός), stems from θάρσους, the epithet of Athena, the Phoenician word is תרשיש, compare with the variants, θάρσους, θαρσῶ, θρασώ, θάρρος, θέρσος i.e ἀνδροθέ, it seems that how places so-named. This is also found on the Nora Inscription found on the the south coast of Sardinia that date late 9th century BCE.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-29, 15:02

Barcelona was named for Hamilcar Barca, the Phoenician is BRQ, this is φλόξ.

1. φλόξ; Of lighting, the flame or flash of a bright helmet, the fiery strength of wine
2. βόστρυχος; a flash of lightning, curl of hair.
3. ἀστραπῇ; flash of lighting

Surely Catalan is not a pedigree Romance language and inherited something from the Carthaginians, whats with the lack of legacy, did Romans wipe all traces of the Carthaginian language from Spain?

Celtic is definable through Phoenician, from קהל (KEL), this is φῦλα 'tribe of men'.
Cornwell, the word Corn is קרן (QRN) hence קרן־קהל (QRN QEL), perhaps where the Carthaginians got its Tin from.
Spain or Espana, perhaps חדש־קין (HDS QIN) "New Phoenicia" or from ἠιθέη
Isabel is popular Catalan name, from ἠιθέη βηλός meaning 'attendant at the temple of Baal or his gift'
Baal (BOL) is also the word Spouse hence esposa or πόσις
Dido means ἠιθέη "unmarried woman", vídua
Déu "God", the terminal u is the Phoenician nominative case ending.
Dé > éd > él "god". Dé > Ié/Je (Jehovà), Jehovà compounds Ζεύς Παιάν.
dia "day" in Phoenician is IUM (dium)
lámpara "lamp" is LPID (לפיד)
Alcohol, an Arabic loan, yet ultimately from Greek. ἧ χολή/ἃ χολά > al-kuḥl' (bitter drink), (al-gal)
ἃ > ἃ(l) *definite articles , Spanish, Arabic, Phoenician, all from Greek.
vino, vi "Wine" in Phoenician is IIN or IN (οἰνός)
lluna "moon" is LBNE (לבנה) (u/b)
amarg "bitter" is MR or MRR
hereu "heir, inherit" in Phoenician is IRS, ultimately from παραδίδωμι, παράδος 'transmit over"
hígado "liver" is KBD (ἥπατος) also spelled KBIR/ἧπαρ, Iecur

I need to probably format Phoenician vocabulary.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-29, 15:59

In Arabic, ملابس (mulabis) means clothing, in Phoenician is the same, מלבוש (MLBUS) which breaks down
into לבוש(LBUS) that is καλύπτω "cover, cloth", in Greek, to turn καλύπτω into clothing, add the -μα ending and καλύπτω becomes κάλυμμα, which modifies -πτω into -μμα, but not in Phoenician, since a prefix. μ-.

Persian Gulf in Arabic is خليج العربي (alkhalij alearabiu), in Spanish, this is El Golfo El árabe. The Arabic and Spanish word for Gulf is the same, from Greek, κόλπος, as written in Herodotus 2.11. τὸν Ἀράβιον κόλπον and العربي means ἃ ἐρημία and κόλπος also the Arabic word for Heart, قلب (qalb) like قلم (qalam) for κάλαμος "reed-pen' or رئيس (rayiys)
for κρᾶς "head" or حليب (halib) for γλάγος "milk" (Leche, llet).

Those who learned Ancient Greek will feel at home with Phoenician language, vocabulary is very similar.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-29, 16:29

-μα , ον- , ών- that are suffixes in Greek are turned into prefix מ- in Phoenician, for the language is written right to left, but if you superimpose, one and top of the other, μα- is in the same position.

מעשר = δεκάτευμα "tithes"
מכתם = γράφημα "notes in music, written music"
מכתש = κοπτήριον "place where grain was beaten out"
מלבוש = κάλυμμα "clothing, head covering, hood, veil, dark veil worn in mourning"
מלבן = πλινθίον "small brick"
מכרות = χωρίον "a particular place, passage in a book"
מולדה = βλάστημα "offspring, an offshoot,"
מכלה = αὔλιον "belonging to folds, stables, farmhouse"
מחרשה = ἄρατρον "plough"
מחשך = σκοτισμός "darkening"
מטה = φύτευμα "that which is planted"
מטה = στρῶμα "anything spread or laid out for lying or sitting upon, mattress, bed"
מערה = ὄρυγμα "excavation, trench, ditch, moat, pit
מכפלה = σπήλαιον "grotto, cavern, cave, den of robbers,
מפלה = πτῶμα "fall, misfortune, calamity"
מפלצה = πλάσμα "anything formed, image, figure"
מפעל = ποίημα "anything made"
מפקד = τάγμα "fixed assessment or payment, arrangement"
מפרקה = φράγμα "fence, breast-work, screen"
מקשה = σικυών "cucumber bed" (Μηκώνη)
מקשה = σικυώνη "cupping instrument"
מריבה = ἔρισμα "cause of quarrel"
מרפא = θεράπευμα "care of the body"
משלה = ἐπιχείρημα "undertaking, attempt, a demonstrative syllogism"
משאלה = αἴτημα "request, demand"
מארת = κατάραμα "curse"
מחול = χόρευμα "a choral dance"
מחזה = ὄψανον "a vision"
מחיה = ζῷον "living being, in art, figure, image"
מחיר = ἀγορασμός "purchasing, purchase, auction"
מחלף = πλόκαμος "locks, wicker baskets"
מחמד = ἐπιθύμημα "object of desire"
מחנה = σκήνημα "camp, dwelling place, nest"
מחסה = ἐπισκιασμός "shading, covering"
מזרק = περιρραντήριον "utensil for besprinkling"
מזמור = ὑμνάριον "hymn, ode"
מזלג = ζάγκλον "reaping-hook, sickle"
מזון = θοίναμα "meal, feast"
מזבה = θυσιαστήριον "altar"
מורג = τρυγάνη "tribula"
מורא = τρόμος "trembling, quaking, quivering from fear"
מוקש = δίκτυον "net"
מוקד = αἴθων "a burning heat, fire"
מופה = φάσμα "apparition, phantom, appearance, phenomenon"
מוסדה = κτίσμα "colony, foundation"
מהתלה = ἀπάτημα "deceit, stratagem"
מדרש = ἐρώτημα "that which is asked, question"
מדע = εἴδημα "knowledge"
מגזר = πρίων "saw"
מגלה = κυλίνδριον "roll of a book"
מגור = ἀγυρμός "gathering, crowd"
מבצר = φραγμός "fencing in, blocking up, fortification"
מבטח = πίστωμα "assurance, warrant, pledge"
מבחר = ἀφαίρεμα "that which is taken away as the choice part"
מבוסה = πατησμός "treading on"
מבול = πλήσμη, πλήμμυρα "fill, flood-tide"
מאפה = ὀπτήσιμος "for roasting"
מאכל = φάγημα "food, victuals'
מאבוס = φάτνωμα "offered work, projecting platform"
משה = δάνεισμα "a loan"
מרצע = χάραγμα "any mark engraved, imprinted, or branded, the serpent's mark, brand on a camel"
מרעה = φρούρημα "that which is watched or guarded"
מרכבה = πορευμα "carriage"
מרוץ = τρόχιμος "running, hasting"
מרגמה = ἀραγμός "crashing shower of stones, beating of the breast in grief,"
מרבד = ῥάμμα "anything sewn or stitched, seam, hem" (ῥαπτός_
מקבה = σκάμμα "that which has been dug, action of digging" (σκαπτός)
מקבה = κόπανος "chopper, cleaver"
מצנפה = στεφάνωμα "crown, wreath, plants used for making garland"
מצוה = θέσμιον "laws, customs, rites, agreements
משבה = στρέμμα "that which is twisted, conspiracy, band of conspirators"
מבגדה = ἀθέτημα "breach of faith, transgression, cancellation, annulment of grant"
משכרה = μίσθωμα "price agreed on in hiring, contract-price"

When a Greek verb terminates -ίζω , the Phoenician verb as the infix -i- (hiphil)

אודיע = γνωρίζω "make known'
אושיע = σωΐζω "to save"
אוחיל = ἐλπίζω "hope for"
אמטיר = νοτίζω "make wet, moisten"
אשמיע = ἀκουτίζω "make to hear"
אשכיל = σοφίζω "make wise"
אהציל = ἐκ-σωΐζω "keep safe"
אציעה = κοιτάζω "make to sleep, put to bed"
Last edited by Lycurgus on 2019-09-29, 17:40, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-29, 17:04

The letter צ is absent in Greek and Latin, but similar too ζ (SD). צ/St, Sk, Sx, ξ".

In the verb ἐκσωΐζω, the κσ turns into צ thus אהציל, but the most important example is ἵστημι, that as the στ/צ
so ἱστός, ἐπιστάτης, στῦλος, σύστημα, στράτος, στάσις, ἐπιστατέω form מנצח, מצב, ציון, צבא ,צבים, נצח.

ת-, -σις, -τις
Added to verb stems to form abstract nouns or nouns of action, result or process

תושיה = σοφιστής "master of one's craft, adept, expert"
תחנת = σκηνίτης dweller in tents or booths, of nomad tribes
תלבשת = κάλυψις "covering"
תלונה = ἔγκλησις "accusation"
תמרור = πικρότης "pungency, of taste, bitterness"
תנובה = φύτευσις "fruits"
תנחוה = παράκλησις "calling to one's aid"
תעלה = κατακλείς "locks on a canal"
תענך = δαφνιακός "belonging to the bay"
תעצמה = δημόσιος "belonging to the people"
תפלה = ἀντιβόλησις "prayer"
תפלצה = πλάσις "moulding, conformation"
תפסה = πήδησις "leaping"
תפת = ὄπτησις "roasting, baking of"
תקוה = προσδοκίας "looking for, expectation"
תרבות = κάρπωσις "offering offruits, use, profit"
תרומה = αἵρεσις "taking, choice"
תרועה = σύριγξις "playing on the syrinx"
תרועה = κρότησις "clapping, striking (as a sign of relief)
תרח = χωρίτης "countryman, inhabitant of a country town"
תרן = δόρυ "of timber, esp. for ships"
תשבץ = ποίκιλσις "embroidery"
תשומת = κατάθεσις "down-payment"

In the Greek verb ειμι "to be", the ει- is identical to EI/הי that form all the "be" verbs in Phoenician.

הייתי , this breaks down into הי־י־תי (stem + infix + personal ending), הי is es in Latin, thus eii > esi + personal ending. The verb הי־י־תי is formed like a Perfect tense, the more original Greek form is ἔσκον/הייתי, the second person is ἔησθα/היית and third is ἔσκε/היי. Phoenician also conjugates ειμι into Aorist, ἔ-εισα > ἔ-ει-α > ἔ-α-ει/ואהי and the Participle is בן ( †sōns, ὢν, ὀν).

The first person perfect tense is similar to Latin, terminate with -i.

אמרתי : dixi "I have spoken"
תרתי : cogitavi "I have thought"
הגדלתי : magnificavi "I have glorified"
בניתי : aedificavi "I have built"
נטעתי : plantavi "I have planted"
עשיתי : feci "I have done"
כנסתי : coacervavi "I have amassed"
פניתי : transivi "I have went"
כתבתי : scripsi "I have written (scrīpsī ↔ scīpsī ↔ csīpsī ↔ ctīptī ↔ ctībi) cf. كتاب/kitab
ידעתי : cognovi "I have known"
ראיתי : vidi "I have seen"
קניתי : possedi "I have gotten"
סבותי : cessavi "I have withdrawn"

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-30, 13:52

Phoenician and Hebrew tends to have two genders, Masculine and Feminine, but what about Animals? For example the word גמל "Camel" lacks a gender, this also true with κάμηλος.

Arabic does distinguish the gender, a female Camel is a ناقة (NAQT) cf. γυναικός "of a female"

The given etymology of κάμηλος is false, instead derives from μέγᾶ (Big) μῆλον (Sheep) via Doric dialect.
μέγᾶ μᾶλον > γᾶμᾶλ hence جمل, this is why the young of a Camel is a lamb.

بهيمة in Phoenician BEME (בהמה) is βόσκημα "cattle, that which is fed or fatted" , there is also بَهْمَة and that is
βῆμα, a word for Cattle.

The word Salt is מלח or ملح in Arabic, this another noun in α that is ἅλμα, ἅλμη "Salt" , this also roots Italian place names, such as Lucania and Roma because the founding of Rome is attributes to Salt production. The Greek adjective for Salt is ἁλυκός sounds like λύκος.

Tophet (תפתה), the initial T is a prefix, an abstract noun, the Greek word is ὄπτησις or ὄπτητις. or ὄπτη(τ) turns into (τ)ὄπτη > τὄπητ hence "Tophet" 'of bricks, of pottery' , these are Phoenician cremation urns.

Moloch should terminate with an M, as in MLKM (מלכם), a dialectic form of MLBM (מלבם), the Greek noun is πλινθεῖον, the -ίον converted into the initial letter in מלבם the diminutive of πλίνθος/לבן "brick", So Moloch is not a Phoenician deity, but the word for a kiln. Baal Hamon/πόσις καμίνου "Lord of the Kiln"

These words to do with the manufacturing element of Phoenicians, the art of making bricks and also making Lime, the Phoenician word for that is שיד (SID) "Lime" from σύνδεσμος cf. τιτᾶνος, τέτανος "white-wash", that can be obtained by burning the bones of animals.

The Phoenician word for bone is עצם is the same as ὀστέον (στ/צ) and عظم (στ/ظ).
The Arabic body is الجسم is τό δέμας "the bodily frame" cf. עצם

Nose : أن , אנף , ἀναπνοῇ
Nostril : منخر, נחר , μυκτήρ, nāres
Kidney : כלית, κοιλίᾳ 'any cavity in the body, ventricle, chamber,'
Liver : كبد, כבד, ἥπατος "liver, seat of passion'
Heart : قلب, לב, κόλπος ' ventricles of the heart, of the sea.
Womb : رحم, רחם ῥήγνυμι ' to burst forth, break forth, —metaph. of sudden misfortunes, bursts of passion'
Belly : بطن, בטנה ὕπτιος ' in animals, the under parts, i.e. the belly
Back : גו, גף ὕπτιος 'back
Palm : كف, כף, ὕπτιος 'back of the hand
Skull : جمجمة, גלגל, קדקד, γόγγυλος, στρογγύλος 'round
Blood : دم, דם, αἱμάς "blood
Feet, Leg : رجل, רגל, ἄρθρον 'joint, generally, of limbs'
Heel : كعب, עקב, ἀκρόπους 'extremity of the leg'
Arm : ذراع, אזרע, χεῖρας 'hand and arm, arm
Thigh : פחד, فخذ, ἐπιγουνίς 'part above the knee, great muscle of the thigh'
Hand : يد, יד, γυῖον 'limb
Tongue : لسان, לשון, γλῶσσα
Finger : اصبع , אצבע, καταπύγων
Ear : إذن, אזנם, οὖς 'ear

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-09-30, 18:05

The Phoenician word for Egypt is מצרים, this is a duel noun and the letter צ disguises two consonants, the meaning of the word is resolved through Greek from μέσ᾽κεράοιν. the σ and κ merge into the צ. μέσ᾽κεράοιν means 'in the middle of two arms' (of the Nile). The Hebrew lexicon identifies the dual but gets confused with its root meaning, it gives מצור 'stronghold', this is a -μα verb, that is ὀχύρωμα 'stronghold'.

Syria is called ארם (ARM) because the region so named for ἁρμός ροοιν "between two junctions of a river" and ἁρμός πέδον "plain of the junction" (of Litani and Orontes) as in the area the two major rivers flow out from, this appears in Bible as Padanaram. ארם means ἁρμός 'shoulder-joint', so ארם literally means Arm.

Its important to lookout for צ and identify if מ is a prefix or part of the radical, the מ in מאכלה is a radical because this is a μαχαίρᾳ 'large knife, sacrificial knife'

ע (guttural)

עקרב 'scorpion' Gk. σκορπίος
שעיר 'Satyr' Gk. Σάτυρος
עמרה 'Cimmerian' Gk. Κιμμερικός

The word פרעה (Pharaoh) compounds ἐπί ουρος written ἔφορος 'overseer, Ephor' and synonyms with φύλαξ and τηρός

אצר—τηρέω "watch over, take care of, guard"
שמר—φύλαξ 'watch' . φ(ש) λ(מ)ξ(ר)
אשמר—φυλάσσω "I am watching" (verb)
משמר—φυλακτήριον ''guarded post, fort, castle'
נצר—ἐντηρέω (original or Doric form of τηρέω) also written נטר

עבד is ὀπαδός 'attendant' and עבדיה, as a name means ὀπαδός του Διος 'attendant or follower of Zeus'

In the word מלאך, the מ a prefix, from ἔργμα also written and defined as ἐργάτης, the epithet of Hermes, the messenger of Zeus, also means workman, one who works the soil, husbandman or one who practises an art.

אפעל—ποιέω, ποιήσω "I make, I shall make"
פעלתי—πεποίηκα "I have made"
ואפעל—ἐποίησα "I made"
מפעל—ποίημα "that which is made, a poem, a deed.
תפעל—ποίησις "a creation, poetry, poetic composition, adoption, fabrication".
פעלי—ποιῆται 'maker, craftsman, painter, one who makes'

אעשה—τεύχω, τεύξω " I will fashion, prepare, cause, produce"
עשהתי—τέτευχα "I have prepared, fashioned, produced"
ואעשה—ἔτευξα" "I cause, produce"
מעשה—τεῦγμα "that which is made, a work.
תעשה—τεῦξις "attainment"
מתכן—τέχνασμα, τέχνημα "anything made or done by art, handiwork, artifice'

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-01, 17:36

The name Phoenician can be confusing, since the word is Greek, φοῖνιξ as many meanings, primarily, it means palm-tree, but the Phoenician word is תמר (tamar), also written תדמר and תדמור, the latter relates to the Latin, Palmarum (תדמורים, תמרים) and this also the name of Palmyra, a city in Syria also called Tadmur, the P and L interchanging with T and D. This place is mentioned in Aramaic Inscriptions of Laghman written in Aramaic by the Indian emperor Ashoka about 260 BCE.

Canaan or כנען means φοινικών "palm-bearing region" φ ν κ ν > כ נ ע ן
Φοῖνιξ also written קיני, קין, קינן, קנז, שם, חם, שני, כנור, נחל, פנחס, פינחס, פניי, פניניה

Another word for palm is ὁ δάκτυλος that became the Arabic النخيل or דקל.

The initial letter in Φοῖνιξ was originally ק hence the spelling, קיני. cf. quattuor/πίσυρες "four", Phoenician reveres the syllables, בעאר < ארבע/πίσυρες cf."Four". πέντε or π(ח)ν(ח)τ(ש) "Five'.

You may also noticed that the word for Seven in Phoenician, Latin and Greek are near-identical and yet the following number, Eight, is vastly different. that because the number is named from ten, or Two(ש) from (מנ) ten (ה), the ה stands for the ε in δεκά and ὀκτώ came from δύο ἄπο δεκά (two from ten) and Nine from εν-ἄπο-δέκα > εν-ἄπο-α > εν-νε-α > ennéa (ἐννεά) "nine" and the Phoenician word for Nine is תשע from εις (ἄπο) δέκα (תש־ע). The word for 'one' is irregular in both Greek and Phoenician.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-04, 1:03

ἀνάπαυμα, ἄμπαυμα = מנוח 'repose, resting-place, fallow land'
ἀναπαύω = אנוח 'make to cease, stop, of land, lie fallow'

ἑπτάς (heptas) "period of seven days" in Phoenician is שבת and homonym with καππαύω (אשבת) 'lay to rest', משבת in μα is καππαύμα 'cessation' and שבתון is καππαύων. παύω in Latin pauso hence שבת. καππαύω is written with a double π hence Sabbath. *καππα > σάββα. root; κατὰ παύω. Lt. pavsas, pavsārĭvs, Pavsariorum.

עצרת is the Phoenician festival word, this the guise of ἄγερσις (πανάγυρις), a festal assembly in honour of a national god.

حَجّ‎ (Hagg)/ἀνάγω 'celebrate, lift up a paean'. cf. ἀγωγῇ
חנוכה/ἐγκαίνια 'feast of renovation' from the verb אחניך is ἐγκαινίζω
פורים/φορός ' tribute paid by subjects to a ruling state' cf. Asiatic Greeks(Ἠπειρώτης/עברית) to Persians.

Persia in Phoenician is פרס meaning πυρός γῆ "Land of Fire" so-named for its abundant Naphtha (νάφθα), a flammable liquid hydrocarbon.

The Phoenician word for month is חדש, from τριακάς a month, containing 30 days, but not from חדש "new", from κτίζω.

ירח is ὥρη, any period, fixed by natural laws and revolutions, whether of the year, month, or day.

אתמול means yesterday, a compound of ἐχθές(את) ἡμέρᾳ(מול) also written χθές(ת) ἡμέρᾳ(מול) cf. البارحة

צהר/الظهيرة "midday" came from ἀγορᾷ, for time the AM Market ends and PM market begins.
צהר means θυρίς 'window', a homonym, thus not the root of above.

Phoenician as many homonyms, words that are spelled the same, but they don't derive from each other, a byproduct of Abjad.

(1) שער "door" (θύρα)
(2) שער "hair" (ἔθειρα, شعر)

(1) חלב "milk" (γλάγος) γλγ/חלב
(2) חלב "fat, unguent " (ἄλειφα, λίπος) ἄλφ/חלב

These are different words, they do not derive from each other, In fact חלב (milk) became a γαυλοῦ "milk-pail' and the Phoenician word for vessel is why Τύρος (Tyre) means τύρος "cheese" cf. Gaul.

קנא "jealous, envy" (φθόνος, غيور) (φ/ק) and l/נ hence gelós (Catalan)

פילגש means concubine same as παλλακὴ but the Phoenician explains the etymology, for פי is a preposition meaning ἁμφί for פילגש is an atavism of ἁμφί λέχος 'second wife'

καλυπτός was influenced by the Phoenician לבש but the ultimate root is ἀμφιάζω "to clothe" (μ-φ-ζ/לבש), thus κάλυψις was originally ἀμφίασις/תלבשה "garment" and κάλυμμα was ἀμφίασμα/מלבשה

עקר means ἄκουρος "without child, without male heir, barren'

שמלה/σεμαλία 'ragged, tattered garments'
שלמה/χλαμύς 'short mantle, military cloak'

(Phoenician Military)
אשפה/ἀσπίς 'shield
חגורה/ζωστήρ 'warrior belt
מחגורה/περίζωμα 'girdle worn round the loins
חנית/ἔγχος 'spear
חץ/ οἰστός "arrow"
קבל/ἐμβολῇ 'battering-ram
שלט/πέλτῃ 'small light shield
שריון/θωράκιον 'breastwork, cuirass
כובע/κύμβαχος 'the crown of a helmet
צנה/αἰγίς 'the skin-shield of Zeus
מגן/ὅπλον 'shield
פלתי/ὁπλίτης 'hoplite
צבאות/σημεία 'military standard, a body of troops under one standard
שנאן/ἀπήνῃ 'four-wheeled wagon, war-chariot'
גלית/ὁπλίτης 'heavy-armed hence Goliath
כרתי/κουρῆτες 'young men, warriors
כרי/κόροι 'young warriors, cf. spartans

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-04, 23:47

מלאך is a noun in μα, so לאך equates with Latin, lăbos that derives Labor and Labourer, yet according to PIE, the word as an uncertain origin.

Earth is clearly related to ארץ, the Aramaic word is ארע ''ara` that resembles the Dorian Greek word for Earth, ἔρα, the ρ is not pronounced in non-rhotic accents and a dialectic form of γῆ or γα > αγ > ארץ < אץ.

The Biblical Hebrew word for a Throne, is כסא but in Aramaic its written כרסא with an r and also the Arabic, كرسي 'chair' and the Greek word is κλισία, in fact there is no λ Mycenaean Greek, hence κισία/כסא.

ἀρά, ἀρή = אלה 'curse, imprecation'
ἀραῖος = תאלה 'prayed against, accursed, cursing, bringing mischief upon'
ἀρᾶται = יאל 'curse to' (verb)
ἠρήσατο = ויאל (aorist)
κατάρα, κατάρη = קללה 'to lay curses upon one'
καταρᾶται = יקלל
κατηρήσατο = ויקלל (aorist)
*קל_אלה/κατ_άρα > קללה

κοῦφος/קל 'light (in weight), swift, nimble, easy'
φωνή/קול 'sound, tone, speech, voice, utterance'

אציל means μασχάλῃ 'arm-pit, corner, bay', the Phoenician resembles the Latin without the μα written axilla
and σχ merged into צ, but the word is found written מאציל that derives Messina, a harbor city in northeast Sicily, also
called Ζάγκλη for the shape of its natural harbor cognate with ἀγκάλη/אציל, Ζάγκλος is a מגל 'sickle' also called a δρέπανον that is דרבן.

χάρυβδιν is a dangerous whirlpool on the coast of Sicily, indeed was occupied by the Phoenicians, χάρυβδιν, a whirlpool that turns is the origin of the כרבים (Cherub) that turns every way.

ברק (Barca) cognates वृक(vṛka) and बृक (bŕk) that are Sanskrit words for Lightning and Dog, for its loud barking, indeed another word for lighting is רעמה/βρόμος 'any loud noise, roaring of a storm' and cognates with ὠρυθμός 'a howling, of dogs' and also ὠρυγή and ὤρυμα is the origin of the name Boanerges, a word formed with ־בן that equates with the patronymic suffixes, the true meaning of Boanerges is ῥωμαϊκά (Romani) a pun with בני־רעמה "sons of Thunder". through Phoenician the story of Remus and Romulus make sense.

תף/τύπανον - Drum (τύπτω)
מחלת/μάγαδις - Lydian flute
חליל/αὐλός - Pipe
מלה/μελῳδία - melody
כנור/φοίνῖκος - guitar made from palm
קיתרוס/κιθάρας - Lyre
נבל/νάβλας - musical instrument of ten or twelve string (ὅπλον)
חצצרות/τίτυρος - Shepherds Pipe
עוגב/ὀργάνῳ - Organ
חול/χορός - dance
מחול/χόρευμα - coral dance
שגיון/ἠχεῖον - gong, a metallic sounding instrument, cf. ἠχεῖον ὄργανον
שיר/ᾠδός, ἀείδω - sing
סומפניה/συμφωνίας - Symphony
שרוק/σῦριγξ - shepherd's pipe, Panspipe
פסנתרין/ψαλτήριον - psaltery
מעלות/αὔλημα - music for the flute
בחללים/ἐπαύλων - accompany on the flute
מחללים/ἐνόπλιον - martial' rhythm
נחילות/ἔναυλος - by means of pipes
אילת השחר/αὐλῶν σχοίνου - aulodic schoinion
מזמור/ὑμνάριον - festive song or ode
נגינות/ἀοίδιμοι- subject of song, pl. (with bad sense from the context)
נחילות/αὐλητικός - of or for the flute
מנצח/ἡγεμών - leader (of a chorus)
שמינית/ὀγδόατος - octave
מכתם/γράμματα - notes in music
גתית/τραγῳδίας - goat song, tragedy
עלמות/αὐλητικός - for the flute
משלי/ἐπιχειρήματα - proverbs
סלה/τέλος - end, a musical notation.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-05, 23:19

Through Phoenician, the Biblical Hebrew language is best understood, a popular language around the Ancient Mediterranean and thus intertwined with Greek and Latin.

רקיע (Firmament)

־יע means that the noun came from a denominative verb (-ίζω) and the root is τροχίζω 'to turn round on the wheel, furnish with wheels, to run around'.

The τ or δ drops out before the ρ, an example is רקון means δρακών.

In the verb φαρμακεύω, the φα and μ drop out, this is ארקח/φαρμακεύω (ρακεύω) relates to modern words such as Pharmacy. In Biblical Hebrew, מרקחת means healing remedy is φάρμακον

In the noun משיח (Messiah), the מ־ is a preposition and משח is not its root, this is not χριστός but ἐπίχριστος, the preposition ἐπί- converts to מ־, the ρ drop and -τος drops since its part of the ending.

ἐπίχριστος > ἐπί-χις > מ-χις > משיח

אמשח means μάσσω 'to work with the hands' cf. massage and also means knead, this also roots מצה, the Jewish word for unleavened bread, also known as barley-cake or bread of slavery from the Doric, μᾶζα (ζ > צ).

משתה means banquet, a verb in -μα, thus ἑστίαμα

Midrash (מדרש) in -μα is ἐρώτημα and ἐρωτάω is אדרש, the initial ד means the Greek word originally began with ϝ.

(1) ערב 'creeping thing, reptiles, snakes, insect, (ἑρπετά, ἕρπω, ὄρπετον)
(2) ערב 'raven (κόραξ) (غراب)
(3) ערב 'west, evening (ἑσπέρα) (غرب)
(4) ערב 'mixture (φυρός)
(5) ערב 'desert (ἐρῆμος) hence ערב 'Arabia (Ἄραψ)
(6) ערב 'pleasing (ἄρεσκος)
(7) ערב 'a load (of produce) (φόρος)
(8) ערב 'courage (θάρσος)
(9) ערב, ערבים 'mortgage, pledge (ἀρραβών) Lt. arrha, arrhabo (root. ἐρύω) (الرهن)
- מערב/φόρημα 'freight
- מערב/φυρμός 'mixture, confused mass, disorder.

One cannot derive nine homonyms from a single root, Arabic distinguishes غراب, غرب ,عربي.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-06, 1:51

נפיל (Nephilim) is a noun from a verb in -ίζω (־יל), the root is νεφελίζω 'wrap in clouds' , this is an Homeric metaphor, a cloud of men describing the Τρώων (Trojans) that appear as a patronymic noun in -ίδης written בני־האלהים.

Palestine (פלשת) means πελασγικός from πάραλος γῆ meaning 'people of the coast-land', but the enemy of King David, is a homonym that are πελτασταί 'light-infantry', cf. גלית, ὁπλίτης 'heavy-armored' . גת (Gath) are σκύθαι of the skirmishes of דוד or Γύγης.

Sidon (צידן) means ξουθόν(>זהב) 'golden yellow' cf. ξανθόν

קישון, קשיון later פישון = σκυθῶν "Scythian"

ספיר/σάπφειρος 'sapphire'
אפז/ψήχω 'to rub down, refine, of gold.
מופז/ψήγμα 'gold dust
אופר/ἄπυρος 'unsmelted gold' Lt. Aurum
חמוץ, אמצ, חמס/αἱματόεις 'blood-stained'
מברד/ἐρύθημα 'redness
ברד/ῥόδον, βρόδον 'rosettes, red, spots'
πάρδαλις means ברד ליש 'spotted lion or leopard' cf. νεβρός, נמרד
צאן are κτῆνος 'flocks' κτ/צ and א as in Dorian dialect. (κτᾶν)

גרגשי - Γραικοί (Greeks)
כנעני,קיני, סיני - Φοινικίνοι (Phoenicians)
יבוסי - Βοιωτοί (Boeotians)
אמרי, עמרי - Κιμμέριοι (Cimmerians)
חתי, סדםי - Σκύθαι (Scythians)
פרזי - Φρύγοί (Phrygians)
חוי - Ἀχαιοί (Achaeans)
פרסי - Πέρσαι (Persians)
עברי - Απειροι (Hebrews)
פוטי - Αἴγυπτοι (Egyptians)
מדיני - Μεσημβρινοί (Midians)
פלשתי - Πελασγοι (Pelasgians)
ארםי - Αρμοῖ (Armenians, Aramians)

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-07, 1:52

אח - Brother (ὁ κάσις)
אחת - Sister (ἡ κάσις)

τηρ most often drop out, so πάτηρ and ματήρ are written πά and μα through vowel consonant metathesis are אב and אם. אב also means ἀγός and the homonyms are εὖ, and ἔφηβος (Ἥβη).

אביה (Abiah), the initial אב means ἔφηβος and יה is the deity, Διός, so it means 'a young man dedicated to or a gift of Zeus'.

יואל (Joel), The initial יו is Διός and אל means εἴρην 'Young man of Zeus, given by Zeus as his gift'
יואש (Joash), The initial יו is Διός and אל means ᾁθεος 'adherent follower of Zeus, his gift, unmarried youth'

אליאל (Eliel) is a Phoenician name, appears 10 times in the Hebrew scriptures, the first component is אלי, this is εἴρην and אל means θεοῦ, so the name signifies a young man, given by god as a gift to his parents.

איזבל (Jezebel), the איז stands for ἠιθέη and בל is the deity, such as ἡλίου.
אשבעל is similar to above, אש stands for ᾁθεος, a variant of ἠίθεος.
אחיה (Ahiah), the אח means ᾁθεος and יה is Διός
יונתן (Jonathan), the יו is Διός and נתן means given hence Διόδοτος.

In the name אברהם (Abraham), the אב stands for εὖ and רהם lacks meaning, for the word is a transliteration of εὕρημα
and אברם is latter form, εὕρεμα. The word means 'foundling, a piece of good luck, godsend'.

אבשלום/Εὐγάληνος 'very calm'
אבישור/Εὔδωρος 'generous'
אברך/εὔλογος 'reasonable, sensible, blessed' cf. benedicite, بارك, Barack.
עבדאל/ὀπαδός θεοῦ 'attendant or follower of God' عبد ال
עבדיה/ὀπαδός Διός 'attendant or follower of Zeus'
הושוע/εὐσεβής 'pious' later יהושוע

ירבעם, the ירב stands for εἴρην and עם for γαμετῆς, synonym with πόσις that stands for בשת in the variant ירבשת
and ירבעל. The name originally meant 'votary of Baal'.

יהוה means Ζεύς Παιάν, shortened to Διόπάν , the terminal ה stands for ν and יה is Ζεύς also written שדי, the שד stands for Ζ. In the name الله‎, the ال is not a definite article, stands for Ἀπ in Ἀπόλλων and also with اللات‎, the ال stands for Ἀφ in Ἀφροδίτη. These names predate the use of definite articles. אל is most often confused with a deity, article, preposition or a youth (εἴρην).

This should demystify Phoenician naming conventions that are still popular to this day.

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-10, 19:12

The Phoenician word for Sky is שמין ,שמים and in Aramaic, שמיא with the suffixed article, these are related too both the English words, Heaven(himinn) and Sky (skeujam) and also सूम (suma) and the Old Persian, āsmān and even the word Zen, for the direct Ancient Greek cognate is σημεῖον and this roots the Phoenician word for hosts or armies, that is צבאות since σημεῖον also means 'body of troops under one standard or flag' also found in other titles, such as Sabazios.

οὐρανός with an unvoiced ρ and the diphthong οὐ produces ש and thus שמים is homologue with οὐρανός and also the Latin word, Caelus. οὐ/C/ש _ ν/l/מ.

מים, the י is a y written ύ in νύμφη, the φ is produced by the μ as a labial, nymphe is a word for Water in Latin, indeed in the word Memphis, the m drops out before the labial in Phoenician, written מף.

Nimrod is example of labials, this is pronounced as if written נברד or נמברד for λεο(νπ)αρδος, so in Phoenician, one or the letters will drop out in -νπ- or -μφ- and παρδος means ברד, for נברד also be a νεβρός 'fawn skin', similar to 'leopard skin', is why these two skins are associated with Bacchus.

The Phoenician word for skin, עור means χρώς and δορά and also cognates the word 'colour' originally meaning dyed-skin.

איל means αἰόλος 'quick moving, nimble, hue, chequered' that roots ποικίλος (פס איל) 'coloured' and also the name for animals, such as deer or sheep, another word is תחש meaning ταχύς 'motion, swift, fleet'

אילות means Αeolos (Αἴολος), the name of several mythical characters, keeper of winds, founder of the Aeolian race and one who led a colony to islands in the Tyrrhenian Sea that were allied with Phoenicians.

שמש 'sun' is ξανθός 'yellow' (ξνθ, שמש) ν/מ/l, sōlis

Posts: 145
Joined: 2019-09-16, 5:28
Real Name: Lee Magee
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Phoenician study group

Postby Lycurgus » 2019-10-11, 5:03

Another clothing item is סרבל , in modern Hebrew this means overalls and the root is περίβολα 'covering, garment'
and this appears as verb in Hebrew scripture, 1 Chronicles 15:27 as a participle, מכרבל that is περιβάλλων, the -ων converts to the מ and כ interchanges with the π.

מרבד : περίβλημα ' name of a particular garment'.

The prepositions are baked into the root, so שבר is considered a root, it can mean 'calamity, misfortune' and the meaning of this homonym is through σύμφορα, the other meaning is 'something profitable or useful' that is defined through συμφέρω. ἐπιβοηθέω

An example is the verb, וימש, this means ἀπέσωσε 'save from' in the 3rd person tense, the π is the מ. This also the verb used in the narrative of Moses, in which he was 'saved from the water' but not drawn, which is a different word all-together, אדלה as in ἀντλέω 'draw water' , a מדלי is a ἄντλημα 'bucket for drawing water' דלי a ἄντλος 'bucket' and also root the Arabic, دلو. ἐπιβοηθέω

משלחה means ἀπόστολος 'dispatch, messenger, envoy, Apostle', the מ represents the preposition, ἀπό- which drops out in the verb, אשלח meaning ἀποστέλλω 'send off', a compound homophone.

עללות 'gleaning' (of grapes) is ἐπιφυλλίς, the verb is ἐπιφυλλίζω/אעולל 'glean grapes in a vineyard'.
אבקש/ἐπιζητέω 'seek after' , ἐπι/ב.
אהקדיש/καθαγίζω 'devote, dedicate' (יש/ίζω) (ה/καθ)
אהלשין/καταγλωττίζω 'use the tongue against another, curse' hence لعنة ( κατα/ה)
לענה is a garden-herb or λάχανον
לשכה is a λέσχῃ 'couch, cavern, lounge, meeting place'

למדתי "I have learned" (Perfect tense) is μεμάθηκα
אלמד "I (will) learn" μανθάνω
ואלמד "I learned" ἔμαθον (Aorist)
תלמיד is a μαθητής 'learner'
תלמוד is a μάθησις 'Instruction'
*μ(ל) ν(מ) θ(ד)

Math cognates למד

Return to “Ancient, Classical and Extinct Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest