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Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-10, 9:02
by księżycowy
For the time being, yes.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-10, 15:26
by vijayjohn
So back on topic, are you still thinking of doing the next assignment for Old English in six days?

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-10, 15:49
by księżycowy
I was being serious(ly annoying!)

Anyway, let's get into the week a little bit and see where the dust lies.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-11, 22:30
by dEhiN
I managed to go through the pronoun paradigms. I was confused on the demonstrative pronouns. I understand that the se set can function as the definite article. But as demonstrative pronouns, do that set and the þes set work in the same way as MnE demonstrative pronouns. The example given on page 18 of hē sorgaþ ymb þā uses the plural accusative of se where in MnE we would use a personal pronoun. Furthermore, there exists a 3rd plural accusative personal pronoun hīe as well as a 3rd singular neuter personal pronoun. So, I guess I'm confused on when to use the demonstrative pronouns - particularly the non-nominative ones - and when to use the 3rd singular neuter or 3rd plural personal pronouns.

This confusion made me realize a possible disadvantage to continuing with AGtOE. It seems like the approach of the book is to learn various grammatical and syntactical paradigms before seeing any examples of usage of those paradigms. If I remember the "How to" section properly, at some point we are encouraged to read through the prose and verse texts, where we will see all the paradigms we've learned in action. But that's a lot of grammar/syntax rules to memorize before seeing even one example of actual usage. In this regard, I could see how a more modern resource like Teach Yourself would be better because they give examples along with the paradigms. I'm not saying we have to switch; I guess it's just, for me, this type of approach is new to me. I usually have used resources that give at least one example for any new paradigm or rule, especially for things like inflection tables. Maybe we could come up with our own examples of usage? I know that would help me a lot.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-15, 22:51
by dEhiN
I was giving more thought to whether we should switch resources, and if so, to what. To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the approach of AGtOE will be difficult for me to keep up with. I'm already starting to feel like giving up and either changing resources or putting of OE until later where I would go through some other book on my own.

I did look through a few possible resources in the shared folder, and one that seems like it would work well is An Introduction to Old English by Hogg (2002). I perused the first several pages, and because it's a more modern book, the author uses a more modern approach of combining grammar explanations with examples. As such, there are no real full texts given, but we would have the benefit of seeing what we're learning in action.

What do you guys think? I'm up for switching.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-15, 22:56
by księżycowy
From what I'm given to understand of Old English, examples will only get you so far anyway. But at this point I'm thinking of dropping out anyway. I really haven't had much of a chance to do any OE, and have been quite enveloped with German and Polish.

I'm not quite ready to pull the plug yet though.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-18, 4:53
by dEhiN
The examples may only get me so far, but I guess example-based teaching works better for me. So does a practice-based one where I have to attempt to do/imitate what I've just learned. This could come in the form of practice exercises. Unfortunately AGtOE uses neither of these methods.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-18, 7:10
by vijayjohn
I think I'm willing to try another resource if we can go really slow with it. :P

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-18, 9:15
by księżycowy
I do admit that I do like textbooks that give graded texts to work through from the get go. But I also like the fact that I can learn a grammar point nice and simple in Mitchell and Robinson; I'm not given a bunch of crap to work through. I say this because of the time I have to devote to OE.

Personally, I'm for sticking with Mitchell and Robinson. But, I'm not one to discourage another (whether directly or indirectly) in their interests. I did find TYOE interesting, but I'm not sure I could justify the expense. An alternative approach could be to use the texts on the University of Texas website (with or without Mitchell and Robinson).

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-20, 7:02
by dEhiN
What did you think about An Introduction to Old English? I haven't checked out UT's LRC stuff on OE yet. I'll take a look when I get a chance. Vijay, do you have a preference?

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-20, 9:02
by księżycowy
It's ok, I guess.

EDIT: Having looked over Hogg some more, I notice the only advantage over Mitchell and Robinson he seems to have is the addition of some readings in later exercises.

Perhaps we can find a/some text(s) to work through as we use Mitchell and Robinson? My problem with Hogg is all of the superfluous historical linguistics. I just wanna learn OE! Granted, Mitchell and Robinson have a lot of the same, but I feel like it's easier to skip over in their text. My recommendations for texts are either from the UofT website or from here:
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~mmcgilli/OEReader/ .

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-22, 18:32
by dEhiN
By UofT, I take it you mean the University of Texas? If so, then what about their actual OE lessons (that's part of their LRC site)? They incorporate texts into each lesson along with grammar explanations. The lessons themselves aren't too long, though we could break them up into two or three parts apiece, and we also learn vocabulary alongside with the texts. You can find the lessons here.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-22, 18:38
by księżycowy
I think I'll just do my own thing and let you and Vijay continue on with the study group.

And no, it's not because of this discussion. (Well, at least it has very little to do with it. :P )

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-30, 5:25
by vijayjohn
dEhiN wrote:Vijay, do you have a preference?

Not really, but it would be pretty cool if we could get something out of those LRC lessons since I used to work there. :P

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-30, 21:50
by dEhiN
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Vijay, do you have a preference?

Not really, but it would be pretty cool if we could get something out of those LRC lessons since I used to work there. :P

Ok then let's use those lessons. Each one is pretty long, so we might want to split it up over 2 or 3 weeks. Also, how about we start next Sunday - January 7, 2019? This week I'm going to be working on the BTG translation, so would appreciate the extra time.

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2018-12-30, 23:04
by księżycowy
In the meantime, I've decided to just start diving into the two Old Testament pieces in Mitchell and Robinson as I learn the paradigms. :P

Re: Old/Middle English Study Group

Posted: 2019-01-03, 2:37
by vijayjohn
dEhiN wrote:Also, how about we start next Sunday - January 7, 2019? This week I'm going to be working on the BTG translation, so would appreciate the extra time.

That's fine with me. I need extra time to catch up with all my/the ( :P ) study groups, too.