Old Irish/ Sengoídelc

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Ciarán12
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Old Irish/ Sengoídelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-01-10, 0:57

Anyone interested in learning Old Irish? I'm learning the modern language now, and Old Irish intrigues me from an etymological standpoint. Also, I'd like to know how my ancestors spoke. Anyone up for it? I will post links and materials I find here.
Last edited by Ciarán12 on 2012-11-25, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby linguoboy » 2012-01-10, 1:57

Old Irish is a whole order of magnitude more difficult to learn than Modern Irish. I have a textbook for it that I dip into sometimes and then back away again slowly.
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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-10, 14:00

After I get myself established with the modern language, I'll try out some Old Irish.
I have two textbooks for it after all.

By all means, post away. :wink:
Think I have some links around here somewhere myself. If I find them I'll post them.

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby mōdgethanc » 2012-01-10, 18:57

Just curious, what is so hard about it? There must be some insane morphology I don't know about or something like that, because it just seems like more straightforwardly spelled Irish to me from what little I know of it.

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby linguoboy » 2012-01-10, 19:07

Talib wrote:There must be some insane morphology I don't know about or something like that, because it just seems like more straightforwardly spelled Irish to me from what little I know of it.

Old Irish verbs are truly a sight to behold. See Section 3.3 "Inflected Verbal Forms" on this page. The full sets of forms for the two "be" verbs can be found in Section 12 of this page. They are by no means the most irregular verbs in the language; if anything, the forms of the copula are simpler than most.
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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-22, 17:50

Last edited by księżycowy on 2012-05-29, 11:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby ILuvEire » 2012-05-29, 1:42

I started looking through those pages and I must say, I'm sufficiently terrified. I mean, like, Jesus, that copula, bro.
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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-29, 2:15

That's what makes it fun though! :wink:

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-05-29, 4:01

I have a book called "Old Irish Paradigms", and page one is the article. Sweet Jesus!
There are different forms for the article for Masculine, Feminine and Neuter, for Nominative, Accusative, Genitive and Dative and for Singular, Plural and Dual. So all those multiplied together make 45 forms, right? WRONG! Each one of those designations has several forms, some of which randomly cause lenition.

An example entry: Acc.Masc.Sing. - in n-, lasin n-, etc...

Two different forms for how to say 'the' for Accusative Masculine Singular nouns! And what the hell does 'etc...' mean!? How many more are there!?

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-29, 11:17

That book is actually my second link.

Yeah, that is kind of crazy. The article declines just like nouns, so it seems. Though I fail to understand the "etc"s any better myself.

Like I said, fun. :mrgreen:

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Prosper_Youplaboum » 2012-05-29, 12:48

An example entry: Acc.Masc.Sing. - in n-, lasin n-, etc...

Two different forms for how to say 'the' for Accusative Masculine Singular nouns! And what the hell does 'etc...' mean!? How many more are there!?


I think "lasin n-" is the article, merged with the preposition "la": lasin n- means "with the". The article itself is "in n-" but it can merge with a preposition...
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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Remis » 2012-05-30, 10:03

Suddenly MSA doesn't seem all that terrifying. :para:
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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-08-15, 13:34

Just bought this...

Image

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-08-20, 14:24

Just thought I'd put up this link. It's a list of online resources for Sengoídelc.

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/sengoidelc/iul/

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-08-20, 16:53

A few more I found:

An online Old Irish-English-Old Irish Dictionary (that site also has lots of other useful stuff)

- http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/sengoidelc/duil-belrai/

This page has two .doc files compiling handouts given for what I think is a first year Old Irish degree course in Trinity College Dublin. They are very useful in explaining some of the stuff I came across in Rudolf Thurneysen's "A Grammar of Old Irish" and J. Strachan and O. Bergin's "Old Irish Paradigms and selections from the Old Irish glosses" (linked in a post above). Both of those books are used in that Trinity Old Irish course.

- http://earlyirish.csc.tcdlife.ie/study.htm

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby ceid donn » 2012-08-21, 21:24

Are you working on this right now? I might be game for those online lessons if that's what you're working on.

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-08-21, 21:38

ceid donn wrote:Are you working on this right now? I might be game for those online lessons if that's what you're working on.


This is one of my focuses now, yeah. I'm working my way through the two books I mentioned in my last post, but I'll use any materials I can get my hands on. Which online lessons did you mean?

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby ceid donn » 2012-08-21, 22:08

The ones at the Univeristy of Texas at Austin site. http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ ... l-0-X.html

Are there others?

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby Ciarán12 » 2012-08-21, 22:28

ceid donn wrote:The ones at the Univeristy of Texas at Austin site. http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ ... l-0-X.html

Are there others?


I'm not sure if there are, a quick Google search didn't throw up any others and I don't remember seeing any others. I had seen that site before, and it looks like a nice way to start learning (jumping into interesting literary stuff). The only thing that would put me off is the fact that it skips through different eras of the language in its lessons, which I might imagine confuses things somewhat? But I suppose they wouldn't use all those different texts for instruction if the language used in them was massively inconsistent.

One thing I did find by way of lessons on other sites was this guide to Old Irish spelling and pronunciation - http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/sengoidelc/donncha/labhairt.html

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Re: Old Irish/ Sengoidelc

Postby ceid donn » 2012-08-21, 23:34

The only thing confusing me after a quick look over the first lessons if the use of superscript letters at the end of some words--is that's typical of how Old Irish is transcribed or just how this program is doing it?

Other than that, it's not really too intimitating. :D That a lot of the words are clearly the origin words of modern day Gaelic words is reassuring.

I'll look over the SMO page you linkd to, and the Wiki page on Old Irish. This seems like ah=n interesting project for me. :D


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