Hungarian and Sumerian?

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Tukkumminnguaq » 2009-02-09, 0:02

Vortarulo wrote:Yay, the nonsense continues! I am surprised how easy it seems to have been to find an Eskimo-Aleut word for each of the supposed cognacies between Sumerian and Hungarian (or Turkish)! ;)


haha, of course, Eskaleut related Uralic-Altaic. but more closely Samoyedic and Japanese/Korean and Ainu and they including Altaic too

Especially puzzleing is the line:
sukulutu / aukuluk 'chocolate'

...because first: There was no such thing as "chocolate" in ancient Babylonia/Sumer. Second: "Sukulutu" isn't a Sumerian word at all. Third: I seriously doubt there is an indigenous word for chocolate in Inuktitut (or whatever this languages there is), so what does "aukuluk" mean and where did you get "sukulutu" from?


from
http://www.ping.de/sites/systemcoder/ne ... merian.htm

and

http://www.websters-dictionary-online.c ... 9/sukulutu

Aukuluk (Au+kuluk >> blood+nice little) meaning 'nice little blood' we often call chocolate is aukuluk lol

Other than that: funny posting! Makes me want to try to find pseudo-cognates in Klingon, German or Tsez for those words as well. :wink:

Greetings,
- André


Lmao, why? Klingon is cool. has OVS order is it? i think Klingon derived from Hixkaryana as known as who has OVS in Caribbean language (in Brazil)

Inuit has almost OVS.they has SOV and OSV. but Inuit supposed OVS for compounded sentence without free order

=]
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Vortarulo » 2009-02-09, 0:17

Amaqqut wrote:
Vortarulo wrote:Yay, the nonsense continues! I am surprised how easy it seems to have been to find an Eskimo-Aleut word for each of the supposed cognacies between Sumerian and Hungarian (or Turkish)! ;)


haha, of course, Eskaleut related Uralic-Altaic. but more closely Samoyedic and Japanese/Korean and Ainu and they including Altaic too


Sorry, this hasn't been proven yet and is merely a hypothesis. Hardly any linguist believes in a relation between Altaic and Uralic, let alone Eskimo-Aleut and Uralic and/or Altaic. Samoyedic is quite well accepted as a part of Uralic, while Ainu, Japanese and Korean still have to be considered isolates each (though Japanese is related to some close languages like Ryuukyuuese and Okinawan).
Please don't sell generally unaccepted hypothesis as truth.

Amaqqut wrote:
Especially puzzleing is the line:
sukulutu / aukuluk 'chocolate'

...because first: There was no such thing as "chocolate" in ancient Babylonia/Sumer. Second: "Sukulutu" isn't a Sumerian word at all. Third: I seriously doubt there is an indigenous word for chocolate in Inuktitut (or whatever this languages there is), so what does "aukuluk" mean and where did you get "sukulutu" from?


from
http://www.ping.de/sites/systemcoder/ne ... merian.htm

and

http://www.websters-dictionary-online.c ... 9/sukulutu

Aukuluk (Au+kuluk >> blood+nice little) meaning 'nice little blood' we often call chocolate is aukuluk lol


The Sumerian certainly is a hoax. Chocolate is derived from a Nahuatl word ("xocolatl" as far as I remember), which is a language unrelated to anything Eurasian. Plus, chocolate has existed only in Middle America until the Spanish conquistadores arrived there.

Amaqqut wrote:Lmao, why? Klingon is cool. has OVS order is it? i think Klingon derived from Hixkaryana as known as who has OVS in Caribbean language (in Brazil)


Why not? Anything could be related to Sumerian!
But seriously, Klingon isn't derived from any natural language, althought Hixkaryana and Klingon indeed both have OVS word order. It's simply the rarest word order type and Marc Okrand happened to choose it for his language.

Greetings,
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[flag]eo[/flag] [flag]us[/flag] [flag]zh[/flag] ← fluent
[flag]nl[/flag] [flag]th[/flag] [flag]tlh[/flag] ← intermediate
[flag]fr[/flag] [flag]ddo[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]lo[/flag] ← conversational
...and also a little bit of [flag]la[/flag] [flag]zhc[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]tpi[/flag] [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]bo[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]id[/flag] and [flag]art-tkp[/flag]

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Formiko » 2009-02-09, 1:15

Vortarulo wrote:
Why not? Anything could be related to Sumerian!
But seriously, Klingon isn't derived from any natural language, althought Hixkaryana and Klingon indeed both have OVS word order. It's simply the rarest word order type and Marc Okrand happened to choose it for his language.


Actually, Marc Okrand wrote his doctoral thesis on Mutusun from Berkely, An extinct Penutian-Californian language.
While a lot of Klingon is a priori, he grabbed MANY words right out of his Mutusen Lexicon.
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Vortarulo » 2009-02-09, 1:33

Formiko wrote:
Vortarulo wrote:
Why not? Anything could be related to Sumerian!
But seriously, Klingon isn't derived from any natural language, althought Hixkaryana and Klingon indeed both have OVS word order. It's simply the rarest word order type and Marc Okrand happened to choose it for his language.


Actually, Marc Okrand wrote his doctoral thesis on Mutusun from Berkely, An extinct Penutian-Californian language.
While a lot of Klingon is a priori, he grabbed MANY words right out of his Mutusen Lexicon.


Do you have a source for that claim? To me, Marc Okrand denied having copied anything from Mutsun on purpose.
[flag]de[/flag] ← native
[flag]eo[/flag] [flag]us[/flag] [flag]zh[/flag] ← fluent
[flag]nl[/flag] [flag]th[/flag] [flag]tlh[/flag] ← intermediate
[flag]fr[/flag] [flag]ddo[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]lo[/flag] ← conversational
...and also a little bit of [flag]la[/flag] [flag]zhc[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]tpi[/flag] [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]bo[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]id[/flag] and [flag]art-tkp[/flag]

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Formiko » 2009-02-09, 1:42

Vortarulo wrote:
Do you have a source for that claim? To me, Marc Okrand denied having copied anything from Mutsun on purpose.


Besides Wikipedia, and looking at his doctoral Thesis, that's all I have. Whlwe Mutusen is extinct, even if it werent, it's not like they could even understand Klingon anyway. Look at the grammatical tables, you'll see. (I knew it was Amerindian before I even read Marc's thesis. It's TOO similar to Amerindain grammars.
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Tukkumminnguaq » 2009-02-09, 2:08

Klingon derived all amerindian words

looks here:
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~dick/Summaries/Lan ... arison.pdf
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Vortarulo » 2009-02-09, 9:03

Amaqqut wrote:Klingon derived all amerindian words


Yeah, sure. ;)
Thanks for the link, though.

that paper wrote:I think Klingon is an independently created language, based mainly on components of a general American Indian nature; Mutsun played a very small role, if any, in its creation. The vocabulary may be totally independent (that is, created at random, using a probability distribution for the phonemes.)


- André
[flag]de[/flag] ← native
[flag]eo[/flag] [flag]us[/flag] [flag]zh[/flag] ← fluent
[flag]nl[/flag] [flag]th[/flag] [flag]tlh[/flag] ← intermediate
[flag]fr[/flag] [flag]ddo[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]lo[/flag] ← conversational
...and also a little bit of [flag]la[/flag] [flag]zhc[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]tpi[/flag] [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]bo[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]id[/flag] and [flag]art-tkp[/flag]

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby millenia » 2009-02-12, 6:02

I found the eskimo list quite interesting. Some were good comparisons and some were not however.
I can respond on that in a letter if interested. My view on how there are so many very distant
similarities are summerized in a crude and short prehistoric overview, which I will be hammered on
because I spent only about 2hrs on it and collated a few things I had. Then this is followed by a small word list from Penuit Indian language which was also mentioned here before.

Californian Penuit Indian Languages
This list is based on two articles by Dr Otto Szadovszy, from Hungary, who taught in Souther California Universities. A trained FinnoUgrian scholar, who presented this information at various Linguistic Conferences. His biggest mistake was to take the timeline proposed by FinnoUgrians as trustworthy when he proposed the time that the Californian Penuitan languages came from Siberia to be 2,000 BC, when supposedly the Ugrians separated from the Finns and started moving eastward, based on the fact that the sound change *kB> x >h was already present in the Penuit Indian languages. These eastern movements occured more than once due to different climactic changes in eastern Europe, and the ancestors of these indians moved east just following the Ice Age.(10,000BC) Many amateurs as well as professionals greatly underestimate the age of these languages, which are indicated by the somewhat unreliable methods of glotochronology.
Along somewhat similar lines, based more on genetic and antropological research Szabo István Mihály, (A Magyar Nép Eredete) a microbiologist who is more interested in prehistoric timelines and genetics research and climate changes, has come up with a more plausable timetable based on physical evidence rather than linguistics.
43,000 BC =the people from the near East or Africa cross into Europe from Anatolia, then split into two groups going toward northern Europe, then during the ice age to the area of Ukraine, the ancestors of the proto FinnoUgrians and the other toward western Europe to become the ancestors of the Basque.
40,000 BC there are already mamoth hunting camps near the arctic circle.
40,000 BC to 30, 000 BC the so called Seletian stone tools are found with indications that there was some crossmixing of Neanderthal and Homosapien technology. Especially since there were camps close to each other. This is later is found in the Americas.

28,000BC -28,000BC a camp found at Wladimir , 150km from Moscow they found the remnants of a chief, who lived to be 60 years old, and covered with pearls made of bone, and a spear made from a straightened tusk of a mammoth. He was covered with red ocher which was to be for a very long time a common custom in eastern europe. He was dressed in decorated skin clothing. (Note that even the Hungarian word for clothing “ruha” derives from leather “irha” and is related to Finnish raha. About 80% of modern Europeans originate from the original hunters of old Europe, which many are starting to claim to be Uralic hunters. With the spreading of agriculture many of them were pushed into areas that couldnt be farmed. Perhaps some had an intollerance to grains and gluten. This is quite common in Finnland.
During the Ice Age their main refuge was the Ukraine and for the Basque it was northern Spain. They were hunters of big game but at the end of the Ice Age 11,000 BC, perhaps due to the changing climactic conditions, the big mamoth and many other mammals started dying off in Europe and some of the hunters moved toward the east across Siberia where they could find the herds. In that process they became more and more diluted, by the various local Mongoloid populations in their path. As a trail they left a few languages that had a mixed vocabulary which included Ugrian and FinnUgor words. The ancestors of the Finns, Estonians moved toward Finnland aroudn 8,000BC to 10, 000 BC and there they ran into some other people who were more akin to the eskimos and lapps. It is doubtfull that all these hunters moved to the north from southern Ukraine, but a lot of those that remained did so. The area around the Ural Mountains was Ugrian speaking, and did not include the Finnic group. Due to various warming and cooling trends the Ob Ugrians moved further north and east. Hungarians more toward the south. Perhaps due to some major climactic catastrophy there was a major exodus from the northern Ural area toward the south and east also which he showed as a scattering toward central Europe, Messopotamia, northern India and Central Asia and Alaska. He doesnt explain these but concentrates on genetic comparisons. Other major movements toward Central Asia to the edges of what became China also occured with the domestication and growth of the horse, which came from the Americas. perhaps it was even brought back by them, as they were boat nomad hunters. In general few or none of these people returned to Europe.
The proto Sumerians also moved south into Mesopotamia as early as 5,500 BC and also already has a more limited version of this *k>h sound change. Note that the ObUgrian languages are a mixture of old FinnoUgrian and Samoyedic. Samoyedic is Asian in origin and includes a lot of vocabulary foreighn to Finnougrians. Some of these examples are shown in ObUgrian and Samoyedic ties to the eastern Siberian and Penuit Indian languages of America.
As an example of a few common words, I list some from the work of Dr Otto Szadovszki.

Ostyak=xat=eel
Wintu=hat=lamprey eel

Uralic ñele =arrow
Ostjak=nol, not=arrow
Hungarian=nyil=arrow
Sumerian *ŋil > gil-ak=arrow (ak=formative)
Wintu=not=arrow

Sumerian =bad =to open, let out (d=th)
Vogul=pes=entrance
Wintu=pes=entrance

Vogul=amp=elder tree
Wintu=ap=elder tree (mp >p)

Uralic =*pola=roundish berry
Hungarian=bogyó=berries ( *l’ or j or ch or ñc’ can become >gy),
Hungarian= pálya=circular track for racing)
Vogul=pil=berries
Miwok=piila=toyon beries

Hungarian =boka=ankle bone
Vogul=pakw-na=ankle bone

Uralic=*luwo=bone
Ob-Ugrian=luw=bone
Finnish =luu=bone
Penuitan=lolo, lulu=bone

Uralic= *tare-*ke =crane (ke(s) =bird in UA.
Ostjak=tora=crane
Hungarian =daru=crane
Wintu=tore =crane

Ob-Ugrian=paj, pai=hills, steep riverbanks, peninsulas
Hungarian =fel ~föl =upwards
Bodega Bay=pai, pajis=mountains

Uralic =*eje=night
Finnish=yo=night (j=y)
Hungarian= éj- = night, north
Nisenan=oy=north

FinnUgor=uje=north (j =y)!!!
Zyrjen=woj, oj=north
Hungarian= éj-szak =north
Wintu=way=north

Finnish=aime=needle with triangular point
Lapp =aime=needle with triangular point
Samoyed S.=ime=needle
Cheremis=ime=needle with triangular point
Nisenan=ym=needle like, awl, harpoon head

Vogul=asirma=freezing cold
Hungarian =szirony=refroozen snow crust
Santa.Cruz=asir=winter
SanJuanBatis=asirim=freezing cold

Vogul=us=village, town
Ostjak=wos=village
N.W. Siberia=wos=town
Sacramento=bos=town
Wintu=bos=town
S.Cruz=use=village

Uralic *pentele =roof
Hungarian =fed-él=cover, roof; fel=up
Vogul=panti=roof "kwel panti"
Wintu=panti=roof

Ugrian=paj=hillocks,steepriverbank,peninsula
Miwok=pajis=mountain,hill,island
Bodega Bay=pai,paji=mountains

Samoyed=sana=pine nuts
Miwok=saanak=pine nuts

? lost link
Miwok=poke=bird nest

Vogul=nowiti=shake,to quake, swing, rock
Miwok=wea=earth
Maidu=mywyn=to swing, to rock
Miwok=nowit=quake

Estonian=pahk=lum, node, protruderance, knot of tree
Kamasian=patka=gnarl, knot of a birch tree
Finnish=pohko=ball
Nisenan=posko=football, oak gall

FinnUgor= *kala =fish (with long a)
Sumerian = ku-a or ha_ =fish
Hungarian =hal=fish
Finnish =kala =fish
Vogul=hul=fish
Maidu=hol=fish
Wintu=hul hur=salmon

FinnUgor *päŋe =to hold, keep, bird type
Sumerian bag =to cage, keep, and bird type
Samoyed Yenisei=foga,pog=net
Hungarian =pók=spider; fog=to catch or hold, fogoy=a bird type
Miwok=poke=bird nest (?) may be coincidental.

FinnUgor=*kol'me=ashes (?heat)
Hungarian =hamu=ashes; heves=hot. (m~v)
Ob-Ugrian=kul-em=ashes (also used for tatooing)
Mordvin=kulu=ashes
Sumerian = kum=hot
Miwok=kula=black paint, ashes, soot
Miwok Sierra=kulya=sugar pine nuts burned black

FinnUgor = *talase =pole
Finnish = talas =a pole
Vogul=tow=central pole of house
Sumerian =dellu =mast; dil-ur=pole; di-m=cosmic post;
Wintu=tow=cenral forked pole of house

Samoyed=tamal=upstream,upper?
FinnUgor =tompe =hill
Hungarian =domb=hill, mound
Sumerian =dub=pile up; du-d=mound; tem-en=foundation;
Miwok=tamal=mountain, above (coastal?)

FinnUgor = *kil’a =place, town
Finnish=kyla=town,village
Hungarian =hely=place, town
Vogul=kwel=permanent buildings,house
Nomlaki=kewel=house
Patwin Ugor=kwel=house
Wintu=kewel=house

Ostjak=wol=location
Wintu=wole=place,position in house

Samoyed=*cici=cold (c=ts)
Yokutsan=cici-k=cold
Ostyak =iski, itki=cold
Maidu=itik=cold

Samoyed =tici=cold
Lake Miwok=tiis=cold

Vogul=kontel=beaver (also Turkish)
Hungarian=hód=beaver (nt or mt > d)
Wintu=kutul=beaver


Vogul=kal-iv=bowstring
Wintu=kali=bowstring

FinnUgor *joŋ-kse =bow; *jaŋ-te=bow string
Hungarian = ijj, iv =bow (*ŋ>v ~j)
Vogul=jow-t=bow
Sierra Miwok=jawe=bow

Samoyed=pu=fish eggs,caviar
Samoyed Yurak=puu=fish eggs,caviar
Miwok=puu=fish eggs,caviar
Miwok clear lake=puu=fish eggs,caviar, eggs in gen.
Miwok clear lake=puule=to be pregnant

Vogul=nop=young elk
Wintu=nop=deer

FinnUgor = *woj-che =type of wild duck
Sumerian =_us and _uz =a duck ( w/_/#_ (not a or ä)
Hungarian = vöcs-ök =crested grebe
Ostjak east=paj=duck (*w>p)
Maidu=poje=duck

Uralic =*kätse =knife
Sumerian = guz =to cut ( z=ts)
Hungarian =késh=knife; has-it=cut in two; has-on=alike;
Vogul=kesi=knife
Miwok=kice=knife

Vogul=ken=basement
Wintu=kenti=basement

Ugrian *ñakke =joint, vertabra, yearly growth
Sumerian *ŋak > gak =peg, nail, joint
Hungarian = nyak=neck; könyök=elbow (bendable joints)
Vogul=nak=space, joint, end,segment,
Vogul =ui-nak =joint of a finger
Miwok=nak=near, edge, at
Maidu=naki=place, vicinity, neighb,near, at,close by

Ugrian ele =blade, sharp edge;
Sumerian al-kin-a =sharpened (kin=like, as)
Hungarian = él=blade, knife edge, éles=sharp
Yenisey=jali=flint
Maidu=laiyi=obsidian flint

FinnUgor = *ashe =to settle down for the night;
Samoyed=n-issi=temporary settlements,rest
Old Hungarian = szál-ó =settle for the night, pitch a camp >>> hotel ;
Sumerian zal-am=tent
Vogul=sose=living,being at,etc.
Vogul=issi=to settle down and rest
Wintu=sus=living at
Mudtsun=sasa=to discover ?
Maidu=is=to sit down
Mutsun=isi-we=to rest

Vogul=lak=goose
Penutian=lak=goose

Ob-Ugrian=kok=eggs
Majdu=kok=seeds, nuts, things requiring shelling

Ostyak=sos=weasel
Maidu=sas-sasi=weasel

Vogul=puj=behind
Wintu=puy=behind

Hungarian szó =word, szól=tells, speak up
Marin Miwok=aswa=to speak,talk,speech,language
Bodega Miwok=maccaw=to speak,talk,speech,language

FinnUgor = *mane = to tell, talk
Ugrian=*mance=to tell a tale
Sumerian =mu=speak; mud=sing, be entertained;
Hungarian = meshe=a tale, mesh-él=tell a tale; mond=tell; mul-at=be entertained
Ostjak=mans- =to tell a tale
SanJuan=monsie=to tell a tale

FinnUgor *kojme =man/male (also Altaic kum)
Hungarian him=male person.
Sumerian gu= warrior ?
Miwok=ko=people

Samoyed=nomeh=rabbit
FinnUgor =numel =rabit
Hungarian =*nyov-ul > nyúl =rabbit.
Miwok=nomeh=cottontail rabbit

Ostyak=uskan=rabbit
Maidu=oske=jack rabit

FinnUgor *wathe =kill
Sumerian bad=kill (w>b)
Hungarian=_öl=to kill ( #w>blk)
Ostyak=wel=to catch,kill
Miwok=wel=to catch,look for

Vogul=paje=bear claw
Miwok=pojje=neclace,bear claw neclace

Hungarian = áp-ol =to take care of (sick or troubled)
Vogul=apa=a cradle carried on the back
Wintu=aba=burden basket of woman for a baby

FinnUgor tala-(?se) =pole, shaft
Sumerian til=arrow, dalla=needle
Hungarian tü=needle; töv-is=thorn
Ostjak=tul=quiver
Miwok=tul-im=quiver
C.L. Miwok=tulim=quiver

Samoyed=sede=god's fox
Wintu=sede=dog,fox or coyote

Ostjak=ajket=old tale, mythical tale
Ostjak=ajkol=sacred
Hungarian =alkot=create > creator
Maidu=ajkat=creator, life, beginning,

Ugrian=*saw=song of the shaman
Sumerian = ašša =voice; sa 4=call by name
Hungarian =szav-al=recite a poem; szó=word, szól=call;
Vogul=kaj-saw=prayer hymn
Mintu=cawi=to sing
Miwok=saw=to shout or cry out

FinnUgor = *śeŋe =to weave, spin, braid hair;
Ostyak=sew=braid of hair
Hungarian =szöv=to weave
Wintu=cew=braid of hair

Ob-Ugrian=*jet-kie=to tatoo or pierce, make tatoo marks
Miwok=jet-ku=chin tatoo

Ob-Ugrian=hanca=to write, tatoo, decorate, design,book
Miwok=hocca=tattoo marks, tattooing, writing

Samoyed=bukunu=sturgeon
Wintu=bokin=sturgeon

Samoyed=mukol=wild plum
Maidu=mokol=wild plum

Finnish=veine=extemely old, ancestor Veinemonen
Hungarian =vén (as in vain) =extremely old person
Maidu=wono-mi=death giver, finish (mi,mej=give)

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Formiko » 2009-02-12, 14:46

Jó napot!

Where did you get this research on Penutian? I'm in general fairly unfamilair with the Penutain branch (and most of the Californian branches) as I focused more on the Athabaskan and my own branch-Iroquois.
I don't understand why people have a hard time seeing any relation with Sumerian and yet see a relation with completely unrelated languages!
I'm a firm believer in the Table of Nations theory, which says God confused the languages at the tower of Babel. We might have had 50 or so language families from that point on, with Sumerian possibly tying them all together. I believe Sumerian, or a form of it was MAYBE the first language spoken, only because the earliest records show Sumerian. (Possible Akkadian, but I digress)
So I don't believe in a proto-Adamic, because all the languages split at Babel. However, it is FUN to try to figure it out anyway!
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby loqu » 2009-02-12, 15:37

Nostratic is coming! yoohoo.
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Tukkumminnguaq » 2009-02-12, 16:48

millenia wrote:
40,000 BC there are already mamoth hunting camps near the arctic circle.
40,000 BC to 30, 000 BC the so called Seletian stone tools are found with indications that there was some crossmixing of Neanderthal and Homosapien technology. Especially since there were camps close to each other. This is later is found in the Americas.


Inuit called Thule or Dorset. Dorset oldest than Thule then Modern Inuit

Dorset used hunting mammoth too. We call mammoth is 'Kiligvak' and 'Kilivvak/Kiliffak'


Uralic ñele =arrow
Ostjak=nol, not=arrow
Hungarian=nyil=arrow
Sumerian *ŋil > gil-ak=arrow (ak=formative)
Wintu=not=arrow


Proto-Eskimo: nangquq 'arrow'
Yupik: nangquq/nanquq 'arrow/arrowhead'
Inuit: natquq/naqquq' 'arrow/arrowhead'

Sumerian =bad =to open, let out (d=th)
Vogul=pes=entrance
Wintu=pes=entrance


Aleut: haxsil 'to open'
inuit: iqpaq- 'to open'

Uralic =*pola=roundish berry
Hungarian=bogyó=berries ( *l’ or j or ch or ñc’ can become >gy),
Hungarian= pálya=circular track for racing)
Vogul=pil=berries
Miwok=piila=toyon beries


Yupik/Inuit: paunraq (paurn(g)aq) 'berry'
Uralic= *tare-*ke =crane (ke(s) =bird in UA.
Ostjak=tora=crane
Hungarian =daru=crane
Wintu=tore =crane


Turkish: turna
Japanese: tsuru (turu in Old japanese)
Korean: turumi
Proto-Eskimo: *tatirŋaq
Yupik: tatelkaq/satelkaq
Inuit: tatijgaq/tatiggaq

Finnish=aime=needle with triangular point
Lapp =aime=needle with triangular point
Samoyed S.=ime=needle
Cheremis=ime=needle with triangular point
Nisenan=ym=needle like, awl, harpoon head


Yupik: mingqun 'needle'
Inuit: mitqut/miqqut 'needle'

Uralic *pentele =roof
Hungarian =fed-él=cover, roof; fel=up
Vogul=panti=roof "kwel panti"
Wintu=panti=roof


Aleut: kangaa 'roof/ceiling'
Yupik/Inuit: Qilak 'roof/ceiling'

? lost link
Miwok=poke=bird nest


Inuit: piki- 'to rise from nest and fly off'

Estonian=pahk=lum, node, protruderance, knot of tree
Kamasian=patka=gnarl, knot of a birch tree
Finnish=pohko=ball
Nisenan=posko=football, oak gall


Inuit: muqpaq 'ball, round'
FinnUgor= *kala =fish (with long a)
Sumerian = ku-a or ha_ =fish
Hungarian =hal=fish
Finnish =kala =fish
Vogul=hul=fish
Maidu=hol=fish
Wintu=hul hur=salmon


Saam (Lapp): guolle -l- (N), kuollē (L), kī̊ille (T), kũill (Kld.), kuoill (Not.)
Mordovian: kal (E M)
Mari (Cheremis): kol (KB U B)
Khanty (Ostyak): kul (V), ẋut́ (DN), ẋul (O)
Mansi (Vogul): kōl (TJ), ẋūl (KU So.), kul (P)
Hungarian: hal
Nenets (Yurak): ẋaaĺe (O), kaaŕe (Nj.)
Enets (Yen): kade, kare (Ch.), kare (K B)
Nganasan (Tawgi): kole, kuale, kuǝlle
Selkup: ke̮l, qe̮l (TaM), ke̮l, qe̮li (Ty.), k↔<uel (Ke.), qē̮li̮ (Tur.)
Kamass: kola
Janhunen's version: (8) *kala
Sammalahti's version: *kala

Turkish: balik
Mongolian: ǯiɣasu(n) (Jigasun)
Tungus: ollo
Korean: eoryo/kogi
Japanese: karai 'plaice'/ikeuo 'live fish'

Austronesian: isda
Polynesian: ika

Tlingit: xáat
Haida: chiin

Aleut: qax
Yupik/Inuit: iqaluk
-ihaluk (for young people who cant say 'Q' they would say 'h' instead of q)
-iraluk (Seward Inupiaq/East Greenlandic)
-qaluk (Uummarmiutun inupiaq)
-eqaluk (Kalaallisut)

Athapaskan: łuε
Navajo: łóó'
Aymara: challwa

FinnUgor=*kol'me=ashes (?heat)
Hungarian =hamu=ashes; heves=hot. (m~v)
Ob-Ugrian=kul-em=ashes (also used for tatooing)
Mordvin=kulu=ashes
Sumerian = kum=hot
Miwok=kula=black paint, ashes, soot
Miwok Sierra=kulya=sugar pine nuts burned black


Aleut: akina- 'to heat/weather hot/hot'
Yupik: uunqu/uungqu- 'to heat/weather hot/hot'
Inuit: uqquu 'to heat/weather hot/hot'

FinnUgor = *kil’a =place, town
Finnish=kyla=town,village
Hungarian =hely=place, town
Vogul=kwel=permanent buildings,house
Nomlaki=kewel=house
Patwin Ugor=kwel=house
Wintu=kewel=house


Aleut: ulax - house
Yupik: englu - house
Inuit: iglu/illu - house

Samoyed=*cici=cold (c=ts)
Yokutsan=cici-k=cold
Ostyak =iski, itki=cold
Maidu=itik=cold

Samoyed =tici=cold
Lake Miwok=tiis=cold


cici? it is 'chichi' and xixi in Nenets anyway

Inuit: ikkii 'cold'

Vogul=kontel=beaver (also Turkish)
Hungarian=hód=beaver (nt or mt > d)
Wintu=kutul=beaver


Aleut: chngax 'otter'
Yupik: kekiarnaq 'beaver/otter'
Inuit:kivgaluk/kiggaluk 'muskrat'
Inuit: kigiaq 'beaver' (meaning 'start/begin about to bite')

FinnUgor = *ashe =to settle down for the night;
Samoyed=n-issi=temporary settlements,rest
Old Hungarian = szál-ó =settle for the night, pitch a camp >>> hotel ;
Sumerian zal-am=tent
Vogul=sose=living,being at,etc.
Vogul=issi=to settle down and rest
Wintu=sus=living at
Mudtsun=sasa=to discover ?
Maidu=is=to sit down
Mutsun=isi-we=to rest


Japanese: isu 'sit/sit down'
Inuit: iksia(vak)/issi(vak): sit/sit down'
Vogul=lak=goose
Penutian=lak=goose


Aleut: laglax 'canadian goose'
Yupik/Inuit: lirliq (nirliq): 'canadian goose'

FinnUgor *kojme =man/male (also Altaic kum)
Hungarian him=male person.
Sumerian gu= warrior ?
Miwok=ko=people


Yupik/Inuit: angun/angut: man/male
Samoyed=nomeh=rabbit
FinnUgor =numel =rabit
Hungarian =*nyov-ul > nyúl =rabbit.
Miwok=nomeh=cottontail rabbit


Its nomex/nomeq (Russian cyllric using -h)

Ostyak=uskan=rabbit
Maidu=oske=jack rabit


Japanese: usagi 'rabbit'
Aleut: uskaanax 'rabbit/hare'
Yupik/Inuit: Ukaleq/Ukaliq 'rabbit/hare'

Samoyed=sede=god's fox
Wintu=sede=dog,fox or coyote


Inuit: suinni 'smell of fox' / sinna 'Sea of the goddess'
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Levo » 2009-02-12, 21:50

I didn't read all the examples, but since Inuit languages are furtherly related to Uralo-Altaic language families, then it can really be that there are some parts in the language which are similar because of the common roots and not because of coincidence.

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Vortarulo » 2009-02-13, 10:08

Levo wrote:...but since Inuit languages are furtherly related to Uralo-Altaic language families...


Uhm, "if", not "since". A relation between Eskimo-Aleut, Uralic, and Altaic has not been established yet and probably will never be. No one has presented any significant lexical parallels so far, only unsystematic lists of words with vaguely similar sounds and in the most parts quite different semantics — that's not how historical linguistics works.

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby j0nas » 2009-02-13, 11:20

Formiko wrote:I'm a firm believer in the Table of Nations theory, which says God confused the languages at the tower of Babel.


Seriously?
I know that story from the Bible, of course, but not that people took it literally.

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby sa wulfs » 2009-02-13, 11:29

I knew that people took it literally, but not that any linguist could possibly do.
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby j0nas » 2009-02-13, 12:58

yeah, it's a bit like a biologist dismissing evolution

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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Formiko » 2009-02-13, 21:24

j0nas wrote:yeah, it's a bit like a biologist dismissing evolution


There are plenty that do
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby loqu » 2009-02-13, 22:01

Formiko wrote:
j0nas wrote:yeah, it's a bit like a biologist dismissing evolution


There are plenty that do


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: we mean serious biologists, not religious people pretending to do science.
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby Formiko » 2009-02-13, 22:22

loqu wrote:
Formiko wrote:
j0nas wrote:yeah, it's a bit like a biologist dismissing evolution


There are plenty that do


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: we mean serious biologists, not religious people pretending to do science.


I'm not talking about religious people. I'm not religious. I worship Christ. Big difference. But I was talking about Graduate level biologists, university professors, who hold a creationist world view.
Just because they don't believe Darwin, doesn't make them wrong.
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Re: Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby sa wulfs » 2009-02-13, 22:33

Actually, not believing in the basic tenets of Darwin's theory is a ticket to Wrongville.
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