Hungarian and Sumerian?

Moderator: Ashucky

User avatar
Vortarulo
Posts: 563
Joined: 2005-12-25, 12:41
Real Name: André Müller
Gender: male
Location: Leipzig
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: Language comparisons

Postby Vortarulo » 2007-10-16, 21:02

millenia wrote:I will post that also.


I'm looking forward to this. We (i.e., the others of our ASJP project) are currently planning to program a tool that lets us adjust the rules for the similarity checking program. We might get even better results then.

It would be the best to have that list of words written in IPA or at least with a note on how each character is thought to have been pronounced.

- André
[flag]de[/flag] ← native
[flag]eo[/flag] [flag]us[/flag] [flag]zh[/flag] ← fluent
[flag]nl[/flag] [flag]th[/flag] [flag]tlh[/flag] ← intermediate
[flag]fr[/flag] [flag]ddo[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]lo[/flag] ← conversational
...and also a little bit of [flag]la[/flag] [flag]zhc[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]tpi[/flag] [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]bo[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]id[/flag] and [flag]art-tkp[/flag]

Frebery
Posts: 35
Joined: 2006-08-08, 14:47
Real Name: Berze Balázs
Gender: male
Location: Budapest
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Postby Frebery » 2007-10-17, 16:32

CoBB wrote:
Frebery wrote:I can just tell you what they teach in Hungary about Hungarian people because I only know that.
So, according to my teacher who teaches Hungarian and speaks Finnish fluently and lived in Finnland for years

Ahah, that would be P. E. herself, am I right? :mrgreen:

Ahah, ugye jól sejtem, hogy ez maga P. E.? :mrgreen:

How do you know her? :shock:
Her monogram is P.E., indeed.

User avatar
CoBB
Posts: 5265
Joined: 2004-08-26, 8:34
Real Name: PG
Gender: male
Location: An island...
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)
Contact:

Postby CoBB » 2007-10-17, 18:10

Frebery wrote:How do you know her? :shock:

Because I went to the same school as you. :yep:

Mert ugyanabba az iskolába jártam, mint te. :yep:
Tanulni, tanulni, tanulni!

A pő, ha engemély, kimár / De mindegegy, ha vildagár... / ...mert engemély mindet bagul, / Mint vélgaban a bégahur!...

User avatar
darkina
Posts: 7739
Joined: 2002-09-09, 15:24
Gender: female

Postby darkina » 2007-10-17, 23:09

CoBB wrote:
Frebery wrote:How do you know her? :shock:

Because I went to the same school as you. :yep:

Mert ugyanabba az iskolába jártam, mint te. :yep:


Me and my friend kind of decided that when meeting Hungarians, the question is not "so where in Hungary are you from?" but "so which part of Budapest are you from?" :lol: :mrgreen:

By the way, I'm not too sure about who is trying to prove what in this thread. But maybe that's not news, it's been like that since page 2 already I guess... (*wondering what actually is on page 2... I'll probably check*)
век живи, век учись, а дураком помрешь

Pleasures remain, so does the pain

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Language comparisons

Postby millenia » 2007-10-18, 4:06

Vortarulo wrote:
millenia wrote:I will post that also.


I'm looking forward to this. We (i.e., the others of our ASJP project) are currently planning to program a tool that lets us adjust the rules for the similarity checking program. We might get even better results then.

----------
I was going to give you my short 42 word list, but after looking at it and how skimpy the examples were and after editing my bigger list, I just decided to skip the whole thing and direct you to the big list on the website. So instead of 42 words you will just have to suffer through 240 + verbs, with many examples for each words. Most of these languages
have sound rules and the program regenerate the word from the protoword. The Altaic languages however have only a very primitive set of rules, and vowels are rarely covered. In general vowels are not as reliable especially since there are few really old references to know what gyrations they went through the millenias.

http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/verbs.htm

Fred

User avatar
nJohn West-Hungary
Posts: 679
Joined: 2004-12-31, 15:26
Real Name: John Nemeth
Gender: male
Location: Szombathely / Steinamanger / Savaria
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Language comparisons

Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2007-10-21, 21:06

Otto von Sadovszky http://www.magtudin.org/otto_sadovszky.htm

Image
The discovery of California: breaking the silence of the Siberia- to-America migrators. The Californians 2:2.9-20 (Nov/Dec.)

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Language comparisons

Postby millenia » 2007-10-23, 4:54

Hmm maybe I should have given the shorter list after all.
Fred

Vortarulo wrote:
millenia wrote:I will post that also.


I'm looking forward to this. We (i.e., the others of our ASJP project) are currently planning to program a tool that lets us adjust the rules for the similarity checking program. We might get even better results then.

It would be the best to have that list of words written in IPA or at least with a note on how each character is thought to have been pronounced.

- André

User avatar
nJohn West-Hungary
Posts: 679
Joined: 2004-12-31, 15:26
Real Name: John Nemeth
Gender: male
Location: Szombathely / Steinamanger / Savaria
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Language comparisons

Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2007-10-25, 14:46


millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Szumér Igék

Postby millenia » 2007-10-31, 5:31

A leggyakrabban használt szumér igék megmagyarázva és összehasonlitva a magyar egyezö igékkel. Alig van olyan aminek nincs hasonlo párja. Hangtörvényekkel vannak megmagyarázva a külömbségek.

The most commonly used Sumerian verbs are explained and compared to similar Hungarian verbs. There are barely any that have no similar pairs. The differences are explained with the common sound rules.
article in Hungarian.

Fred

http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/SumerIge.htm

User avatar
nJohn West-Hungary
Posts: 679
Joined: 2004-12-31, 15:26
Real Name: John Nemeth
Gender: male
Location: Szombathely / Steinamanger / Savaria
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Szumér Igék

Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2007-11-01, 16:51

Michelangelo Naddeo: L’abjad ugaritico…Un alfabeto rovás - A cura di MTT., Sulla scrittura degli Etruschi-VI.: 1. Erodoto aveva ragione… 2. La lingua morta[?] di un popolo misterioso: L’etrusco

http://www.osservatorioletterario.net/saggisticagenerale59-60.pdf

User avatar
Paokala
Posts: 7
Joined: 2007-10-31, 2:07
Real Name: Alek Szahala
Gender: female
Location: Helsinki
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Re: Szumér Igék

Postby Paokala » 2007-11-01, 16:55

millenia wrote:A leggyakrabban használt szumér igék megmagyarázva és összehasonlitva a magyar egyezö igékkel. Alig van olyan aminek nincs hasonlo párja. Hangtörvényekkel vannak megmagyarázva a külömbségek.

The most commonly used Sumerian verbs are explained and compared to similar Hungarian verbs. There are barely any that have no similar pairs. The differences are explained with the common sound rules.
article in Hungarian.

Fred

http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/SumerIge.htm


Your site is definitely interesting and I believe here have been some connections between Sumerian and Uralic languages. Although I'm not that sure if the connections are genealogical or not.

But, I see lot's of things in your research that aren't that credible. At first, the huge lists of words compared to sumerian words. Indeed some relations seem to be explainable with sound correspodences, but most of them are not. It almost looks like you had own rule for every word. Also the semantic correspondences are very odd. For example (just took randomly some pair):

<code>
silim szilaj 'hardy?'
silim szól-ni 'to call; greet'
</code>

I don't see any sense in these. The basic meaning of silim is health, or being in good shape, and in these examples it's used as a nominal part of a compound verb, here with verbs dug4 and sum.

Why do you think, that there should be two corresponding hungarian words for silim?

Also, if we add some words with #si_

<code>
silig2 csülok
silig5 szün
silig csal
</code>

I notice sumerian /i/ can be /i o: y a/ in Hungarian in exactly same phonetical enviroinment (as long as we know sumerian phonology well enough in this case). I don't see any common property in this vowel list, there are labial and illabial vowels, front and back vowels and open and close vowels. At this point one must realize these corresponding words cannot be valid.

Also, in the case endings, I see no correspondence between Hungarian accusative /-t/ (FU *-m) and sumerian ergative /-e/. Also many other case ending similarities are very unlikely. I'd only put ablative /-ta/ and maybe terminative -/(e)š(è)/ to the "possible" list.

What comes to the verb comparision, I don't believe sumerian prefix chains are comparable to FU verbs. Finding some phonetically corresponding words for each prefix is not that credible way to prove anything. Especially if some sumerian prefix correspondences are placed in nouns/wherever in Hungarian.

The verb system in sumerian is very unique, for example I don't know any FU that indicates (or had even traces of indicating) the plurality of the object by reduplicating the verbal root. Also the way how the personal prefixes and suffixes can indicate object, subject or agent is not comparable to FU languages.

As I said before, I believe in this theory, but I don't see the correspondences as abundant as you seem to do. You should write some kind of abstract of your research, the page in it's current format is way too long to read.

I'm looking forward to see Prof. Simo Parpola's forthcoming research about this subject.


- Paokala

User avatar
nJohn West-Hungary
Posts: 679
Joined: 2004-12-31, 15:26
Real Name: John Nemeth
Gender: male
Location: Szombathely / Steinamanger / Savaria
Country: HU Hungary (Magyarország)

Re: Language comparisons

Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2007-11-02, 12:17

.
Hi, Belus !

Image


http://www.magtudin.org/Homeland%208.htm


"..The research of
Marjalaki Kis Lajos,
Magyar Adorján,
Toronyi Etelka,
Torma Zsófia,
Nagy Sándor,
John Dayton,
Grover Krantz
and others, proves that civilization began in Central Europe and spread south to Mesopotamia and Egypt, not the reverse. The people who migrated to the south and southeast were later forced to abandon their new territories and return to their homeland in the Carpathian Basin.."

And look at the


JOHN DAYTON: "Minerals, Metals, Glazing & Man" ( Harrap Publishers, Edinburgh, 1978.)

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Szumér Igék

Postby millenia » 2007-11-03, 5:07

Paokala wrote:Your site is definitely interesting and I believe here have been some connections between Sumerian and

Uralic languages. Although I'm not that sure if the connections are genealogical or not.


Geneological or not, there is a lot more to this than what you actually noticed in this list. There is an unusual amount of similarities for shure.

Paokala wrote: But, I see lot's of things in your research that aren't that credible. At first, the huge lists of words compared to sumerian words. Indeed some relations seem to be explainable with sound correspodences, but most of them are not. It almost looks like you had own rule for every word.


Its good that you brought this up, although I think its part of the introduction, that the list is a
direct copy from Thompsens book on Sumerian Language where there are many groupings that obviously don't belong together, due to the fact that they come from Sumerian Logograms and their homonyms. The fact that even homonyms agree should also make one think that there is an even stronger tie than just basic root words. As far as sound rules being random??
examples please. Vowels are however much more troublesome but they are also troublesome in many FinnUgor languages. Words are not recorded by time and location in these dictionaries and may cover up a host of differences due to dialects and ages.

Paokala wrote:Also the semantic correspondences are very odd. For example (just took randomly some pair):


silim szilaj 'hardy?'
silim szól-ni 'to call; greet'


As I said, homonims with totally different root words will have their sound rules that make sense only from the protoword and not from Sumerian. But protowords for Sumerian are not possible without assuming a language family. FU protowords however work very well.

Paokala wrote:I don't see any sense in these. The basic meaning of silim is health, or being in good shape, and in these examples it's

used as a nominal part of a compound verb, here with verbs dug4 and sum.

Why do you think, that there should be two corresponding hungarian words for silim?


Because the two homonims have nothing in common except that they sound alike.

Paokala wrote:Also, if we add some words with #si_



silig2 csülök =hand, knuckle
sil-ig5 szün =cease [because just like in Sumerian pg 287 of Thompsens book N can alternate with L.]
sil-ig csal =cheat.


Paokala wrote:I notice sumerian /i/ can be /i o: y a/ in Hungarian in exactly same phonetical enviroinment (as long

as we know sumerian phonology well enough in this case). I don't see any common property in this vowel list, there are labial and illabial vowels, front and back vowels and open and close vowels. At this point one must realize these corresponding words cannot be valid.


You cant expect all the answers to be revealed immediately can you? Modern Hungarian and I am shure modern Finnish is a collection of dialects, and there have been plenty of vowel shifts in the past, which we dont even have records of. No wonder so few words have passed the test of historic linguists, to the extent that some people even doubt there ever was a FU language family because of it. Thats partly because many valid words fail the test, because there is not enough historic documents that can explain all the changes and extinct dialects of the past. Also this was not an article that tried to explain all the changes, just some basics.

Paokala wrote:Also, in the case endings, I see no correspondence between Hungarian accusative /-t/ (FU *-m) and sumerian ergative

/-e/. Also many other case ending similarities are very unlikely. I'd only put ablative /-ta/ and maybe terminative

-/(e)š(è)/ to the "possible" list.


Again this article is not a grammatical summary of sumerian. But youre assesment is way way off because there are in fact much more similarities than what is illustrated here or in what you read.
Just a few examples:

Most pronouns are similar.
Locatives -na, -a, -ta 11 // Turk na, da // FU -nA Hungarian -en, -tt
Locative Terminative --e, s'c' // Hungarian -ig
Ablaitive -ta // FU -kt Hungarian -ht > -t
Ablaitive/partitive -ra //Hungarian -rol
Illative -ta // Turkic -da (Hungarian ba_)
Inessive -a (ib=in) // Hungarian ben
Lative/allative ki-,-s'e // FU -k, -s; Hungarian -hoz
Addesive -da, -ni // FU -nä; Hungarian -nál
Superessive an- // ugrian -no,-num Hungarian -on
Sublaitive -ra // Turk örü=up; Hungarian -ra (finn alle)
Delative -ri // Hungarian -rol
Genetive -k and n // Hungarian -nak FU -n, Turk -Vn
Equatative -gin // Hungarian -ként Turk gim
Causal -ra, -bar // Hungarian -ért
Commitative -pi, -da (w>p) // Hungarian vel (*k>v) FU ke
Instrumental -ta // Hungarian ált-al
Plural -ene/pers/ -hu/not person/
//Hungarian -k & -i, FU -j, -i; Basque -k
There are no adjectival endings in Sumerian.
Diminutive not known but small boy or girl both sound like gi, ge // FU kk Hu -ke
Negative na-, nam // FU -e-
Hungarian doesnt have a negative case
but uses a leading ne or nem
imperative ga- // Hungarian -jen
Mostly use a Verb pron Object as an indication of imperative action in Sumerian.
precative ha- // Hungarian hagy + verb
would do na- , nam // FU ne, Hungarian -na
and so on and so on. including interrogatives, and so on.

Paokala wrote:What comes to the verb comparision, I don't believe sumerian prefix chains are comparable to FU verbs.

Finding some phonetically corresponding words for each prefix is not that credible way to prove anything. Especially if

some sumerian prefix correspondences are placed in nouns/wherever in Hungarian. [/quote/

Yes its like trying to compare something that is 5000 years old to something modern. There have been changes and the order of morphemes have changed. No wonder Turkic morphology is so different from FU also and yet I believe there was a time thousands of years ago that they were much closer. The biggest obstacle to going forward is to say I dont believe this or that and dont believe it can be solved, so whoever tries to solve it is crazy. Kill the bastard.
If you look around this is not a problem for IndoEuropeanists. They get over it. If they had one tenth we have to build on with Sumerian it would by now be an IndoEuropean langauge. The double standard works great with them when we believe them so readily. I dont.

Paokala wrote:The verb system in sumerian is very unique, for example I don't know any FU that indicates (or had even traces of indicating) the plurality of the object by reduplicating the verbal root. Also the way how the personal

prefixes and suffixes can indicate object, subject or agent is not comparable to FU languages.
Paokala wrote:s not the only way they make plurals and often that has the meaning of a generality like "all such things". As far as personal prefixes and suffixes indicating objects, I am not shure I agree. Maybe you are talking of the special pronoun marker for objects. -pa ? Each language over its history develops some features that are local
inventions and are not just a blind copy of their ancestral language. Such minor differences are nothing.


Paokala wrote:As I said before, I believe in this theory, but I don't see the correspondences as abundant as you seem to do. You should write some kind of abstract of your research, the page in it's current format is way too long to read.


No they are not as abundant as we would like to see, but probably a lot more than whats self evident after such a summary. Yes you are right that I should do a lot more explaining and a lot more writing about this to clarify where my claims come from. I have written some and hope to do a lot more. Thats part of the reason I try to exchange ideas about these topics to see where there needs to be a better explanation and to seek out areas where the topic is weak.

Criticism is a very usefull when its not simple haranging. Thanks for your help.

[quote="Paokala"]I'm looking forward to see Prof. Simo Parpola's forthcoming research about this subject. I was very glad to see that others are finally taking some interest in reviewing this linguistic link. Its something that has been dragging on for over a hundred years without ever being given up. The criticisms it has received were so ridiculous and simply making claims that were not proven. I have tried to find out more about Simo Parpola, especially about this aspect of his work, but found out little. I have claimed much the same that he has written, many years ago.

Untangling this is not something you can do with a few simple examples, but its a lifetime of research and analysis. There are many claims that you read that are very badly stated and not proven, and very silly, so that there is an automatic rejection mechanism that it such ideas evokes.
Fred

User avatar
Vortarulo
Posts: 563
Joined: 2005-12-25, 12:41
Real Name: André Müller
Gender: male
Location: Leipzig
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Postby Vortarulo » 2007-11-03, 13:04

@millenia:

Can you give the statistical propability for your claim? What did you calculate for the chances of similarity? To me it seems that they're absolutely not "striking" nor even "unusual".
I bet I can produce similarly supposedly striking and seemingly unusual correspondences and cognate lists for something as improbable as Klingon-Caucasian or Caucasian-Austronesian...

I don't see many reoccuring sound rules in your list, I admit. Final consonants are dropped or added randomly in both languages, there's no striking similarity in the initials either, it seems pretty random to me as well.

Furthermore: If you take the most basic words from the Swadesh list and compare it to Finno-Ugric, you will see that there isn't much that remains, unless you widen the semantical scope to a very extreme.

I remain very sceptical. Your site is far from convincing for me again, though it seems more scientific that John's and Belus' random guessings here.

Our ASJP project's algorithms have been improved recently, and we have almost 1100 languages in comparison now. More are to follow. I was told that by the end of this month or in the beginning of December we're calculating and printing a new "world tree". We'll see where Sumerian will end up, there... I'll also ask a friend for some lists of other Ancient Oriental languages like Elamite, Ugaritic, etc. And I think we'll need some Saami languages as well. The interesting thing is, that despite their quite distant relationship, ALL Finno-Ugric languages end up in the same branch of the world tree. But Sumerian shows up at the opposite tree.
If our new "world tree" is out, I'll make a analysis of all the isolated languages and their positions again. We also have Burushaski in our list now, which I'm looking forward to see it in the tree.

- André
[flag]de[/flag] ← native
[flag]eo[/flag] [flag]us[/flag] [flag]zh[/flag] ← fluent
[flag]nl[/flag] [flag]th[/flag] [flag]tlh[/flag] ← intermediate
[flag]fr[/flag] [flag]ddo[/flag] [flag]es[/flag] [flag]lo[/flag] ← conversational
...and also a little bit of [flag]la[/flag] [flag]zhc[/flag] [flag]pt[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]tpi[/flag] [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]bo[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]id[/flag] and [flag]art-tkp[/flag]

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby millenia » 2007-11-03, 16:01

Vortarulo wrote:@millenia:

Can you give the statistical propability for your claim? What did you calculate for the chances of similarity? To me it seems that they're absolutely not "striking" nor even "unusual".


As you know, they dont have to be striking or obvious, but need to have a standard rules that work for most cases.

Vortarulo wrote: I bet I can produce similarly supposedly striking and seemingly unusual correspondences and cognate lists for something as improbable as Klingon-Caucasian or Caucasian-Austronesian...

I don't see many reoccuring sound rules in your list, I admit. Final consonants are dropped or added randomly in both languages, there's no striking similarity in the initials either, it seems pretty random to me as well.


Which list do you mean? If you want examples of the typical sound rules just ask. I have lots of example lists at my fingertip. The problem is how to post the symbols here, for it requires some greek and accented characters. The randomness of dropping initials is not as random as is generally claimed and are quite similar to FU languages, the dropping of certain kind of endings is also common in both, . Not to say that Sumerian didnt go well beyond the usual. Was this the real spoken Sumerian or Semitic scribes using abreviations? It is not a usefull form at that point because of all the sound alike words. I have also already mentioned that the late Semitic - Sumerian period many Sumerian words became special symbols and further reduced, making them totally unrecognizable, but there are many examples of reconstructable words based on concepts like:

a living space -- a tent -- a house having a common origin, and showing the evolution of the word.

Again you compare what to what? Hungarian to Sumerian may seem random at times but proto FinnUgor to Sumerian is much less so, thats the right way to do it. Comparing to homonyms as with the verb list also has many drawbacks as I commented earlier, yet it also shows a relatednes which isnt as simple to use with the existing methodology.

Of course if you simple dont wish to consider the likelyhood because it doesnt fit with your view then lets not play games here. You obviously dont consider most of what I have shown either. For others in the group however I will provide a list of sound correspondences and some links also.


Vortarulo wrote:Furthermore: If you take the most basic words from the Swadesh list and compare it to Finno-Ugric, you will see that there isn't much that remains, unless you widen the semantical scope to a very extreme.


No I definitely would not want to widen the semantical scope, and have a problem with people who do so often. Yet some make some sense while many are ridiculous. Certain tree names in one region reapear in other climate regions for slightly different trees. The name at times can be attributed to the usual use of the tree. Joints of a body are often linked whether they represent a finger joint nak-ui/Ugrian "finger joint" or nyak=neck/Hungarian, or kö-nyök =arm joint i.e. elbow. An area of the body can also be often tied to another next to it, in a process of close association. There are hundreds of such pitfals in a simple dictionary based comparison, which are done by people not being familiar enough with the languages they compare. You loose a large percentage of the shared words that way.

Vortarulo wrote:I remain very sceptical. Your site is far from convincing for me again, though it seems more scientific that John's and Belus' random guessings here.


Skepticism is a good thing, too many beginers have none but accept blindly a few examples for what they wish to believe in and ignore the hundreds of ties elsewhere because they dont want to consider it or dont know anything about it. I am just wondering where you really fit in this case. One can be extremely fussy with examples when trying to avoid the obvious. Oviously to me may not be obvios to you I admit. I have had similar discussions with others and they have claimed to be able to do just as well with another language and Sumerian, and what I got back was really just vague and gross links with semantically and phonologically wide links.

However. Consider also that if the main core of the vocabulary does have a tight provable fit, then one can be a bit looser with a few of the remainder since the key question of relatedness is more trusted. In that case one needs to make a list that is very reliable both semantically and phonologically, proove that the sound rules are consistent, then discuss the remainder and see why they could be damaged by many other reasons, including the fact that some may have been borrowed from a distant dialect.

Vortarulo wrote:Our ASJP project's algorithms have been improved recently, and we have almost 1100 languages in comparison now. More are to follow. I was told that by the end of this month or in the beginning of December we're calculating and printing a new "world tree". We'll see where Sumerian will end up, there... I'll also ask a friend for some lists of other Ancient Oriental languages like Elamite, Ugaritic, etc. And I think we'll need some Saami languages as well. The interesting thing is, that despite their quite distant relationship, ALL Finno-Ugric languages end up in the same branch of the world tree. But Sumerian shows up at the opposite tree.
If our new "world tree" is out, I'll make a analysis of all the isolated languages and their positions again. We also have Burushaski in our list now, which I'm looking forward to see it in the tree.


Well I never received the promised Sumerian list from you. You have your perceived goals to prove, which means that you and your group will manage to come to the desired goal one way or another, to proove the status quo. Not knowing enough about Sumerian can be a very dangerous thing, because of the late erosion and the use of simple VC, CV type reduced forms. Not knowing how these relate to older forms is a shure fire way of not being able to relate it to other languages. If you, can please send
me that list you promised and if possible try to keep the criticisms to a smaller set of examples so that I know exactly what we are talking about. That way I could get into the details and try to explain them with examples and rules. If you are interested of course.

Just testing what symbols will come through:
àèòùăĕŏŭāēōūαβςγδ

Fred

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby millenia » 2007-11-03, 18:53

For starters just picking L as one phoneme at a time. The following are situations where the L is the trailing consonant. In FU the root words are of the form CVCV or VCV which later may get truncated a bit. Most languages show many of the older forms still. I can post the sources in one of two ways.
The sound rules that illustrate the sound rules without a detailed definition or attested form or one that just has the sound rule results and then emphasizing the various attested forms and defi
nitions. So here are the typical sound rule forms.

Proto *ala== under
EmeGir/Sumer _lá << [ _,l,a,]<< #a/_/_QV#, l/l/#V_, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar ala, al_ << [ a,l,a~e,]<< #a/a, - ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi iala,jol_ << [ a~ä,l~Λ~t,,]<< #a/a~ä, l/l~Λ~t/#V_, a#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm uly-n << [ u,l,e,]<< #a/u/_Q, l/l/#V_, a#/e,
Mordvin alo- << [ a,l,a~o,]<< #a/a, l/l/#V_, a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi ala- << [ a~e,l,a~o,]<< #a/a~e, l/l/#V_, a#/a~o,
Estonian ala << [ a~e,l,ē,]<< #a/a~e , l/l/#V_, a#/ē,
Lapp/Saami vuolle-n << [ vuo,ll,ē,]<< #a/vuo/_K, l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,

Proto *alu== false (** ??Altaic origin!!) (a)
EmeGir/Sumer _lu-l << [ _,l,u,]<< #a/_/_QV#, l/l/#V_, u#/u/VK_,
Magyar/Hungar ál << [ a,l,u~o,]<< #a/a, - ,u/u~o,

Proto *aśe-la==(or aśe-dh)to lay, settle for the night
EmeGir/Sumer zal-am << [ a,š,e~i,-,l,a,]<< #a/a, ś/š, e/e~i, - ,- ,a/a,
Magyar/Hungar _szá-l << [ a,ś~sz,e~i,-,l,a~e,]<< #a/a, ś/ś~sz/R_V, e/e~i, - ,- ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi isi << [ o~u,ć~s,i,-,l~Λ~t,a,]<< #a/o~u/_P, ś/ć~s, e/i, - ,l/l~Λ~t, - ,
Mordvin eźe-m << [ e,ś,e,-,l,a~o,]<< #a/e/_ś, ś/ś, - ,- ,- ,a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi asu- << [ a~e,s~ts,ie~e,-,l,a~o,]<< #a/a~e, ś/s~ts, e/ie~e, - ,- ,a#/a~o,
Estonian asu << [ a~e,s~ts,ie~e,-,l,ē,]<< #a/a~e , ś/s~ts, e/ie~e, - ,- ,a#/ē,
Lapp/Saami assâ- << [ a~ä,čč~ss,ie~a,-,l,ē,]<< #a/a~ä/_U, ś/čč~ss, e/ie~a, - ,- ,a#/ē,

Proto *jelä== light
EmeGir/Sumer _íla, _íli, _íl << [ _,e~i,l,(a~e),]<< #j/_/_Y, e/e~i, l/l/F_, ä#/(a~e),
Vogul/Mansi jâľli << [ j~i,i,l~Λ~t,,]<< #j/j~i/_F, e/i, l/l~Λ~t, ä#//VC_,

Proto *kajle== (kaje?) bend
EmeGir/Sumer gil-im <<g>h,a~i,l,(a),]<<k>h/_RC , a/a~i/_j, jl/l, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar haj-ol << [ h~g,a~e,_,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, a/a~e, j/_/_C, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi xoi-t << [ χ~h,a,j,l~Λ~t,,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, - ,- ,l/l~Λ~t, e#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm kuj-al << [ k,o~u,j,l,,]<< #k/k, a/o~u/#k_, - ,- ,e#//_,
Mordvin kaj-ams << [ k,a,j,l,o,]<< #k/k, - ,j/j, - ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi kaj-ra << [ k,a,j~i,l,ie~e,]<< #k/k, - ,j/j~i/R_, - ,e/ie~e,

Proto *kale== (kale) sleep
EmeGir/Sumer ku_ <<g>h,a~u,_,(a),]<<k>h/_RC , a/a~u/C_C, l/_/kR_V#, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar hál_ << [ h~g,a~ö,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, a/a~ö/_l, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi khúl-i << [ χ~h,o~u,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, a/o~u/_CV, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Votyak/Udm kõl,kül << [ k,o~u,l,,]<< #k/k, a/o~u/#k_, - ,e#//_,

Proto *kele== (kele) speech
EmeGir/Sumer gal-a << [ k,a~u,l,(a),]<< #k/k, e/a~u/#Ŝ_, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar kiál-t << [ k,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #k/k/_F, e/e~i, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi kelä << [ k(w),e,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #k/k(w)/_F, e/e/#k_lV, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Votyak/Udm kyl << [ k,e~i,l,,]<< #k/k, e/e~i/C_l(k)(j)V, - ,e#//_,
Finn/Suomi kieli << [ k,ie~e,l,ie~e,]<< #k/k, e/ie~e, - ,e/ie~e,
Estonian keel << [ k,ie~e,ll,ie~e,]<< #k/k, e/ie~e, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~e,

Proto *kille= (?) shout "call ?" (v)
EmeGir/Sumer ak-kil (2) << [ k,i,l,(le),]<< #k/k, i/i/_l, l/l/F_, le#/(le)/CV(C)_,
Magyar/Hungar kiál-t << [ k,i~e,l,e~i,]<< #k/k/_F, i/i~e, ll/l, e/e~i,

Proto *kollε=fissure
EmeGir/Sumer gala 3,4,5 <<g>h,a,l,l,,]<<k>h/_RC , o/a/_lC, - ,- ,ε#//CC_,
Magyar/Hungar hal-ok, hal-k << [ h~g,o~a,l,,]<< #k/h~g/_R, o/o~a/_l(j), ll/l, ε#//CC_,
Finn/Suomi kolo << [ k,a~o,l,ε,]<< #k/k, o/a~o, ll/l, ε#/ε,
Lapp/Saami gollo << [ g,œ,l,l,ε,]<< #k/g, o/œ, - ,- ,ε#/ε,

Proto *kollε== testicle (body)
EmeGir/Sumer gal 4 <<g>h,a,l,l,,]<<k>h/_RC , o/a/_lC, - ,- ,ε#//CC_,
Magyar/Hungar golyó << [ h~g,o~a,l,,]<< #k/h~g/_R, o/o~a/_l(j), ll/l, ε#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm ko'ľ-an, keľ-an << [ k,o~a,l,,]<< #k/k, o/o~a, ll/l, ε#//_,
Finn/Suomi kolli << [ k,a~o,l,ε,]<< #k/k, o/a~o, ll/l, ε#/ε,
Estonian koli << [ k,a~o,l,ε,]<< #k/k, o/a~o, ll/l, ε#/ε,
Lapp/Saami guoľlâ ~kuoľlâ << [ g,œ,l,l,ε,]<<k> fish bladder (body)
EmeGir/Sumer *hella > _ella-g <<g>h,a~u,_,l,a,]<<k>h/_RC , u/a~u, w/_, - ,a/a,
Magyar/Hungar holy-ag << [ h~g,u~o,l,a~e,]<< #k/h~g/_R, u/u~o, wl/l, a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi kawel-m << [ χ~h,u~o~ö,βl,,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, u/u~o~ö, wl/βl, a#//CC_,
Finn/Suomi kupla, kuula, kuulo << [ k,u~o,pl,a~o,]<< #k/k, u/u~o, wl/pl, a#/a~o,
Lapp/Saami goblo/koble << [ g,u~o,bl,ē,]<< #k/g, u/u~o, wl/bl, a#/ē,

Proto *kälä== wade
EmeGir/Sumer gal-am << [ ŋ>g,a~u,l,(a~e),]<<k>g/_ä, ä/a~u/#k_, l/l/F_, ä#/(a~e),
Magyar/Hungar kel- << [ k,e,l,e,]<< #k/k/_F, ä/e, - ,ä/e,
Vogul/Mansi kwääl- << [ k(w),ä~e,l~Λ~t,,]<< #k/k(w)/_F, ä/ä~e, l/l~Λ~t, ä#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm kol-,kel-ni << [ k,o~u,l,,]<< #k/k, ä/o~u, - ,ä#//_,
Mordvin kele-ms << [ k,ä~e,l,e,]<< #k/k, ä/ä~e, - ,ä#/e,
Finn/Suomi kaala-a << [ k,ä,l,ä,]<< #k/k, - ,- ,ä#/ä,
Lapp/Saami galle- << [ g,ie~a,ll,ē,]<< #k/g, ä/ie~a, l/ll/V_V, ä#/ē,

Proto *kāla== fish (animal)
EmeGir/Sumer ku_a ~ ha << [ k,u,_,a,]<< #k/k/_Ē, ā/u, l/_/kR_V#, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar hal_ << [ h~g,ā,l,a~e,]<< #k/h~g/_R, - ,- ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi xūl << [ χ~h,ā,l~Λ~t,,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, - ,l/l~Λ~t, a#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm kol << [ k,ā,l,e,]<< #k/k, - ,- ,a#/e,
Mordvin kal << [ k,ā,l,a~o,]<< #k/k, - ,- ,a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi kala << [ k,a,l,a~o,]<< #k/k, ā/a, - ,a#/a~o,
Estonian kala << [ k,ā,ll,ē,]<< #k/k, - ,l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,
Lapp/Saami guöllé << [ g,ā,ll,ē,]<< #k/g, - ,l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,

Proto *kūlε== hear
EmeGir/Sumer a-ka_ << [ k,a,_,i~e,]<< #k/k/_Ē, ū/a, l/_/kR_V#, ε#/i~e/C_,
EmeSal/Sumer mu.uš.tug (pi) << [ m,e,_,e,]<< #k/m, ū/e, l/_/kR_V#, ε#/e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar hal << [ h~g,u,l,ε,]<< #k/h~g/_R, ū/u, - ,- ,
Vogul/Mansi kwol,kol, qont- << [ χ~h,u~o,l~Λ~t,,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, ū/u~o, l/l~Λ~t, ε#//_ ,
Votyak/Udm kyl-ni << [ k,i,l,,]<< #k/k, ū/i, - ,ε#//_,
Mordvin kul-em << [ k,o,l,ε,]<< #k/k, ū/o, - ,ε#/ε,
Finn/Suomi kuule << [ k,uu,l,ε,]<< #k/k, ū/uu, - ,ε#/ε,
Lapp/Saami gullâ << [ g,u~o,ll,ε,]<< #k/g, ū/u~o, l/ll/V_V, ε#/ε,

Proto *lū== people
EmeGir/Sumer lú << [ l,a,]<< #l/l, ū/a,
Magyar/Hungar _ö << [ l,u,]<< #l/l, ū/u,
Finn/Suomi luu << [ l,uu,]<< #l/l, ū/uu,

Proto *mele== deep (a)
EmeGir/Sumer meli << [ m,e~i,l,(a),]<< #m/m, e/e~i, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar mély_ << [ m,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #m/m, e/e~i, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi mil_ << [ m,i,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #m/m, e/i, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,

Proto *mulε== pass
EmeGir/Sumer mu_ << [ m,a~u,_,i~e,]<< #m/m, u/a~u, l/_/#mu_, ε#/i~e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar mul << [ m,u~o,l,ε,]<< #m/m, u/u~o, - ,- ,
Vogul/Mansi muli << [ m,u~o~ö,l~Λ~t,,]<< #m/m, u/u~o~ö, l/l~Λ~t, ε#//_ ,
Votyak/Udm mijis << [ m,i~e,l,,]<< #m/m, u/i~e, - ,ε#//_,
Mordvin moľe-ms << [ m,o,l,ε,]<< #m/m, u/o, - ,ε#/ε,
Lapp/Saami moll-ât << [ m,u~o,ll,ε,]<< #m/m, u/u~o, l/ll/V_V, ε#/ε,

Proto *mäle== warm (a)
EmeGir/Sumer mèl_ << [ m,a,l,(a),]<< #m/m, ä/a, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar mel-eg << [ m,e,l,e~i,]<< #m/m, ä/e, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi mäli << [ m,ä~e,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #m/m, ä/ä~e, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,

Proto *pala== bite of food
EmeGir/Sumer paŕ, pa_-d << [ p~b,a~u,l,a,]<< #p/p~b, a/a~u/C_C, - ,a/a,
Magyar/Hungar fal-at <<b>f,a~ö,l,a~e,]<<p>f, a/a~ö/_l, - ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi pul << [ p,o~u,l~Λ~t,,]<< #p/p, a/o~u/_CV, l/l~Λ~t, a#//VC_,
Mordvin pal << [ p,a,l,a~o,]<< #p/p, - ,- ,a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi pala << [ p,a,l,a~o,]<< #p/p, - ,- ,a#/a~o,
Estonian pala << [ p,a,ll,ē,]<< #p/p, - ,l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,
Lapp/Saami buola <<b>uo,ll,ē,]<<p>uo, l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,

Proto *pale== left > bad luck (a)
EmeGir/Sumer bal << [ p~b,a~u,l,(a),]<< #p/p~b, a/a~u/C_C, - ,e#/(a)/l_, (hostilities?)
Magyar/Hungar bal <<b>f,a~ö,l,e~i,]<<p>f, a/a~ö/_l, - ,e/e~i,
Votyak/Udm palj-am, paľľ-an << [ p~b,a,l,,]<< #p/p~b, a/a/#p_Q, - ,e#//_,

Proto *pälä== likeness
EmeGir/Sumer bala << [ p~b,a,l,(a~e),]<< #p/p~b, ä/a, l/l/F_, ä#/(a~e),
Magyar/Hungar fél <<b>f,e,l,e,]<<p>f, ä/e, - ,ä/e,
Vogul/Mansi poål, pål << [ p,ä~e,l~Λ~t,,]<< #p/p, ä/ä~e, l/l~Λ~t, ä#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm pal << [ p~b,o~u,l,,]<< #p/p~b, ä/o~u, - ,ä#//_,
Mordvin p'eľ << [ p,ä~e,l,e,]<< #p/p, ä/ä~e, - ,ä#/e,
Finn/Suomi pieli << [ p,ä,l,ä,]<< #p/p, - ,- ,ä#/ä,
Lapp/Saami boelle << [ b,ie~a,ll,ē,]<< #p/b, ä/ie~a, l/ll/V_V, ä#/ē,

Proto *pälε== the inside
EmeGir/Sumer bar [l~r] << [ p~b,a,l,i~e,]<< #p/p~b, ä/a, l/l/F_, ε#/i~e/C_,
EmeSal/Sumer -ba, -bi << [ p~b,e,l,e,]<< #p/p~b, ä/e, l/l/F_, ε#/e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar -be, be- <<b>f,e,l,ε,]<<p>f, ä/e, - ,- ,
Votyak/Udm pol- , pol-in << [ p~b,o~u,l,,]<< #p/p~b, ä/o~u, - ,ε#//_,

Proto *sula== melt
EmeGir/Sumer zal << [ _,a~u,l,a,]<< #s/_/_VQ, u/a~u, - ,a/a,
Magyar/Hungar _olv-ad << [ _,u~o,l,a~e,]<< #s/_, u/u~o, - ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi tal << [ t,u~o~ö,l~Λ~t,,]<< #s/t, u/u~o~ö, l/l~Λ~t, a#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm sõl, syl << [ š,i~e,l,e,]<< #s/š, u/i~e, - ,a#/e,
Mordvin sola << [ s,o,l,a~o,]<< #s/s, u/o, - ,a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi sula,_ula << [ s,u~o,l,a~o,]<< #s/s, u/u~o, - ,a#/a~o,
Estonian sula << [ s,u~o,ll,ē,]<< #s/s, u/u~o, l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,
Lapp/Saami šoľk-ete << [ s~š,u~o,ll,ē,]<< #s/s~š, u/u~o, l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,

Proto *süle== embrace
EmeGir/Sumer _ul << [ _,u~i,l,(a),]<< #s/_/_VQ, ü/u~i, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar _öl << [ _,ü~ö,l,e~i,]<< #s/_, ü/ü~ö, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi tal, tεl << [ t,u~o~a,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #s/t, ü/u~o~a, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Votyak/Udm sil << [ š,i~e,l,,]<< #s/š, ü/i~e, - ,e#//_,
Mordvin seľ << [ s,e,l,o,]<< #s/s, ü/e/_CV, - ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi syli << [ s,u,l,ie~e,]<< #s/s, ü/u, - ,e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami sâlâ << [ s~š,o,ll,ie~a,]<< #s/s~š, ü/o, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~a,

Proto *tale== dish (made of wood)
EmeGir/Sumer tal << [ d,a~u,l,(a),]<< #t/d/_R, a/a~u/C_C, - ,e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar tál << [ t,a~ö,l,e~i,]<< #t/t, a/a~ö/_l, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi tul << [ t,o~u,l~Λ~t,i,]<<t> find
EmeGir/Sumer du_ << [ d,a~u,_,(a),]<< #t/d/_R, u/a~u, l/_/#tu_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar -tol << [ t,u~o,l,e~i,]<< #t/t, u/u~o, - ,e/e~i,
Finn/Suomi tule << [ t,u~o,l,ie~e,]<< #t/t, u/u~o, - ,e/ie~e,
Estonian tule-ma << [ t,u~o,ll,ie~e,]<< #t/t, u/u~o, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami tolli- << [ d~t,u~o,ll,ie~a,]<<t> ignite > ??noon (nature)
EmeGir/Sumer dalla << [ d,a~u,_,l,,]<< #t/d/_R, u/a~u, l/_/#tu_, - ,ε#//CC_,
Magyar/Hungar dél << [ t,u~o,l,,]<< #t/t, u/u~o, ll/l, ε#//CC_,
Mordvin tol << [ t,o,ľ,ε,]<< #t/t/_R, u/o, ll/ľ, ε#/ε,
Finn/Suomi tuli << [ t,u~o,l,ε,]<< #t/t, u/u~o, ll/l, ε#/ε,
Estonian tuli << [ t,u~o,l,ε,]<< #t/t, u/u~o, ll/l, ε#/ε,
Lapp/Saami dolla << [ d~t,u~o,l,l,ε,]<< #t/d~t, u/u~o, - ,- ,ε#/ε,

Proto *tūle== ( & tul-ma) wind (nature)
EmeGir/Sumer tu_ 15 & tu_-mu << [ d,a,l,(a),]<< #t/d/_R, ū/a, - ,e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar dúl << [ t,u,l,e~i,]<< #t/t, ū/u, - ,e/e~i,
Votyak/Udm tel,tev << [ t~d,i,l,,]<< #t/t~d, ū/i, - ,e#//_,
Mordvin tuuli << [ t,o,l,o,]<< #t/t/_R, ū/o, - ,e#/o,

Proto *wole== to be
EmeGir/Sumer _ul 4 << [ _,u~a,l,(a),]<< #w/_, o/u~a/#w_, - ,e#/(a)/l_, (anything, something)
EmeSal/Sumer ma-al << [ _,u~a,l,(a),]<< #w/_, o/u~a/#w_, - ,e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar vola << [ v,o~a,l,e~i,]<< #w/v, o/o~a/_l(j), - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi _all-, _ōl- << [ (v),a~o~u,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #w/(v)/_RC, o/a~o~u, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Votyak/Udm vil << [ w~β,o~a,l,,]<< #w/w~β, o/o~a, - ,e#//_,
Mordvin _ul'-ems << [ _,o~u,l,o,]<< #w/_/_RC, o/o~u, - ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi _olla << [ _,a~o,l,ie~e,]<< #w/_/_Xl, o/a~o, - ,e/ie~e,
Estonian _olla << [ _,a~o,ll,ie~e,]<< #w/_/_Rl, o/a~o, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~e,


Proto *älε== (äli) lap
EmeGir/Sumer _u_ 5 << [ a,l,i~e,]<< #ä/a, l/l/#V_, ε#/i~e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar öl << [ ö,l,ε,]<< #ä/ö/_l, - ,- ,
Vogul/Mansi āl ? tal << [ ä~a,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ä/ä~a/_K, l/l~Λ~t/#V_, ε#//_ ,
Votyak/Udm al << [ e,l,,]<< #ä/e, l/l/#V_, ε#//_,
Mordvin eľ, eľeśť, äl, jäl << [ ä~e,l,ε,]<< #ä/ä~e, l/l/#V_, ε#/ε,

Proto *ćele== to relax
EmeGir/Sumer zil << [ z,e~i,l,(a),]<< #ć/z/_Fl, e/e~i, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar csill-ap-od << [ s~cs,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #ć/s~cs, e/e~i, - ,e/e~i,
Votyak/Udm ťśel- << [ č~ts,e~i,l,,]<< #ć/č~ts, e/e~i/C_l(k)(j)V, - ,e#//_,

Proto *ćukke-lε== kiss (v)
EmeGir/Sumer šag_ 5 << [ š>s,a~u,g~h,e~i,-,l,i~e,]<< #ć/š>s, u/a~u, kk/g~h, e/e~i, - ,- ,ε#/i~e/C_, (friendly,sweet)
Magyar/Hungar csok-ol << [ s~cs,u~o,k,e~i,-,l,ε,]<< #ć/s~cs, u/u~o, kk/k, e/e~i, - ,- ,- ,
Vogul/Mansi šoχ-el << [ š~tš~č,u~o~ö,k,i,-,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ć/š~tš~č, u/u~o~ö, kk/k, e/i, - ,l/l~Λ~t, ε#//_ ,

Proto *ćumpε-lε== drinking vessel of birch bark
EmeGir/Sumer sab ? << [ š>s,a~u,b,ε,-,l,i~e,]<< #ć/š>s, u/a~u, mp/b, - ,- ,- ,ε#/i~e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar csobo-lyó << [ s~cs,u~o,b,ε,-,l,ε,]<< #ć/s~cs, u/u~o, mp/b, - ,- ,- ,- ,
Vogul/Mansi śump-əl << [ š~tš~č,u~o~ö,mp,ε,-,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ć/š~tš~č, u/u~o~ö, mp/mp, - ,- ,l/l~Λ~t, ε#//_ ,
Votyak/Udm ćib << [ č~ts,i~e,b~p,ε,-,l,,]<< #ć/č~ts, u/i~e, mp/b~p, - ,- ,- ,ε#//_,
Finn/Suomi sampio, sammi, sammio << [ s,u~o,mp~mm,ε,-,l,ε,]<< #ć/s, u/u~o, mp/mp~mm, - ,- ,- ,ε#/ε,

Proto *čaηkä+lu= head person/he
EmeGir/Sumer isak << [ s,u,ŋ~g,a,+,l,a~u,]<</s> gyula << [ s~cs,a~e,g,e,+,l,u~o,]<</s>g] > gil-ak << [ ŋ~n,e~i,l,(a),]<< #ń/ŋ~n, e/e~i, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_,
Magyar/Hungar nyil << [ ny,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #ń/ny, e/e~i, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi ńāl << [ ń~n,i,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #ń/ń~n, e/i, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Votyak/Udm ńil << [ ń,e~i,l,,]<< #ń/ń, e/e~i/C_l(k)(j)V, - ,e#//_,
Mordvin nal << [ ń,e~i,l,o,]<< #ń/ń, e/e~i/_C, - ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi nuoli << [ n,ie~e,l,ie~e,]<< #ń/n, e/ie~e, - ,e/ie~e,
Estonian nool << [ ń,ie~e,ll,ie~e,]<< #ń/ń, e/ie~e, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami njuollâ << [ ń~n,ie~a,ll,ie~a,]<< #ń/ń~n, e/ie~a, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~a,

Proto *ńele== [ńēle/FU ] swallow, gulp down
EmeGir/Sumer ŋili << [ ŋ~n,e~i,l,(a),]<< #ń/ŋ~n, e/e~i, l/l/F_, e#/(a)/l_, (throat?)
Magyar/Hungar nyel << [ ny,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #ń/ny, e/e~i, - ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi ńal << [ ń~n,i,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #ń/ń~n, e/i, l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Votyak/Udm ńyly << [ ń,e~i,l,,]<< #ń/ń, e/e~i/C_l(k)(j)V, - ,e#//_,
Mordvin ńile- << [ ń,e~i,l,o,]<< #ń/ń, e/e~i/_C, - ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi niele << [ n,ie~e,l,ie~e,]<< #ń/n, e/ie~e, - ,e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami njiella << [ ń~n,ie~a,ll,ie~a,]<< #ń/ń~n, e/ie~a, l/ll/V_V, e/ie~a,

Proto *ńula== [*ńōla] lick (v) ; *ńäl-mä= tongue (-m deverbal) (body)
EmeGir/Sumer ŋèle, ŋìli << [ ŋ~n,a~u,l,a,]<< #ń/ŋ~n, u/a~u, - ,a/a,
EmeSal/Sumer méli, mili throat,pharinx,voice;eme_ << [ n~m~š,e,l,e,]<< #ń/n~m~š, u/e, - ,a/e,
Magyar/Hungar nyal << [ ny,u~o,l,a~e,]<< #ń/ny, u/u~o, - ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi ńal-emti, ńol-ant << [ ń~n,u~o~ö,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ń/ń~n, u/u~o~ö, l/l~Λ~t, a#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm nola- << [ ń,i~e,l,e,]<< #ń/ń, u/i~e, - ,a#/e,
Mordvin nola-ms << [ ń,o,l,a~o,]<< #ń/ń, u/o, - ,a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi nuole << [ n,u~o,l,a~o,]<< #ń/n, u/u~o, - ,a#/a~o,
Lapp/Saami njoall-ot << [ ń~n,u~o,ll,ē,]<< #ń/ń~n, u/u~o, l/ll/V_V, a#/ē,

Proto *śala== elm (tree) willow (tree) ; śal'ε =tree bark; (see fiber)
EmeGir/Sumer á-sal << [ š>s,a~u,l,a,]<< #ś/š>s, a/a~u/C_C, - ,a/a, (poplar)
Magyar/Hungar szil << [ sz,a~ö,l,a~e,]<< #ś/sz, a/a~ö/_l, - ,a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi sāl't, sēl't << [ s~t,o~u,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ś/s~t, a/o~u/_CV, l/l~Λ~t, a#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm saľ << [ ś~š,e~y,l,e,]<< #ś/ś~š, a/e~y, - ,a#/e,
Mordvin säli,śeľ-ej << [ š~ś,a,l,a~o,]<< #ś/š~ś, - ,- ,a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi sal-aja << [ s,a,l,a~o,]<< #ś/s, - ,- ,a#/a~o,

Proto *śala== lightning (also *ćelke) (nature)
EmeGir/Sumer zal << [ š>s,a~u,l,a,]<< #ś/š>s, a/a~u/C_C, - ,a/a,
Vogul/Mansi sal << [ s~t,o~u,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ś/s~t, a/o~u/_CV, l/l~Λ~t, a#//VC_,
Finn/Suomi sala-ma << [ s,a,l,a~o,]<< #ś/s, - ,- ,a#/a~o,

Proto *śije-le== porcupine (animal)
EmeGir/Sumer šáh(2)-zé-(da-bar-sur-ra) << [ š>s,i~e,l,e~i,-,l,(a),]<</s>szögy ~ sün << [ sz,i~e,j,e~i,-,l,e~i,]<< #ś/sz, i/i~e, - ,e/e~i, - ,- ,e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi soule << [ s~t,i~ü,j~i,-,l~Λ~t,i,]<< #ś/s~t, i/i~ü, jV/j~i/F_, - ,l/l~Λ~t, e/i,
Mordvin s'ej-el << [ š~ś,i~e,j,e,-,l,o,]<< #ś/š~ś, i/i~e, j/j, - ,- ,- ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi sii-l << [ s,ii,_,-,l,ie~e,]<< #ś/s, F/FF/C_jV, jV/_/CF_, - ,- ,e/ie~e,
Estonian sii-l << [ s,ii,_,-,l,ie~e,]<< #ś/s, F/FF/C_jV, jV/_/CF_, - ,- ,e/ie~e,

Proto *śulε== give birth
EmeGir/Sumer sal << [ š>s,a~u,l,i~e,]<< #ś/š>s, u/a~u, - ,ε#/i~e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar szül~ _ell-ik << [ sz,u~o,l,ε,]<< #ś/sz, u/u~o, - ,- ,
Vogul/Mansi sūl-emi << [ s~t,u~o~ö,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ś/s~t, u/u~o~ö, l/l~Λ~t, ε#//_ ,
Votyak/Udm ?súd/sod-ni << [ ś~š,i~e,l,,]<< #ś/ś~š, u/i~e, - ,ε#//_,

Proto *śälä== to slice
EmeGir/Sumer sil 2 << [ š>s,a,l,(a~e),]<< #ś/š>s, ä/a, l/l/F_, ä#/(a~e),
EmeSal/Sumer zil << [ z,e,l,(e),]<< #ś/z, ä/e, l/l/F_, ä#/(e),
Magyar/Hungar szel- << [ sz,e,l,e,]<< #ś/sz, ä/e, - ,ä/e,
Vogul/Mansi sil- << [ s~t,ä~e,l~Λ~t,,]<< #ś/s~t, ä/ä~e, l/l~Λ~t, ä#//VC_,
Votyak/Udm tśel-av << [ ś~š,o~u,l,,]<< #ś/ś~š, ä/o~u, - ,ä#//_,
Finn/Suomi säle << [ s,ä,l,ä,]<< #ś/s, - ,- ,ä#/ä,
Lapp/Saami cuoll-ât << [ č,ie~a,ll,ē,]<< #ś/č, ä/ie~a, l/ll/V_V, ä#/ē,

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Lead position for L

Postby millenia » 2007-11-03, 19:01

[This form of my program lists the sound rules with the words and not the definitions.
Can also generate one with the sound rule results, but also list the attested words & manings.
Fred

Proto *laje_==(lajε) small
EmeGir/Sumer lá_,la-l << [ l,a~i,l,e~i,_,]<< #l/l, a/a~i/_j, j/l, e/e~i, - ,
Magyar/Hungar le+ány,lejány ~ _já-ny << [ l,a~e,j,e~i,_,]<< #l/l, a/a~e, - ,e/e~i, - ,
Vogul/Mansi läi_ << [ l,o~u,j,i,_,]<< #l/l, a/o~u/_CV, - ,e/i, - ,

Proto *lama== (luma) captivate
EmeGir/Sumer lám << [ l,u,m~n,_,]<< #l/l, a/u/_N, m/m~n, a#/_/m_,
Magyar/Hungar lám << [ l,a~e,m~v,_,]<< #l/l, a/a~e, m/m~v, a#/_/m_,
Finn/Suomi lumous << [ l,a,m,a~o,]<< #l/l, - ,- ,a#/a~o,
Lapp/Saami lâbmo- <<l>uo,m~mb,ē,]<<l>uo, m/m~mb, a#/ē,

Proto *lappe== flat (a)
Magyar/Hungar lap-os << [ l,a~e,p~b,e~i,]<< #l/l, a/a~e, pp/p~b, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi loB, luB << [ l,a,p,,]<< #l/l, - ,pp/p, e#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm lapä-g << [ ľ,e~y,p,,]<< #l/ľ, a/e~y, pp/p, e#//_,
Mordvin lap-š << [ l,a,p~v,o,]<< #l/l, - ,pp/p~v, e#/o,
Finn/Suomi lappea, lappia << [ l,a,pp~p,ie~e,]<< #l/l, - ,pp/pp~p/#CV_, e/ie~e,
Estonian lapp << [ l,a,b,ie~e,]<< #l/l, - ,pp/b/#CV_, e/ie~e,

Proto *latte== (l8ttε) watch
EmeGir/Sumer u-lut-in << [ l,a~u,d~t,(e~a),]<< #l/l, a/a~u/C_C, tt/d~t, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar lát << [ l,a~e,t,e~i,]<< #l/l, a/a~e, tt/t, e/e~i,

Proto *le-== to be
EmeGir/Sumer al-ad << [ l,a~u,-,]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, - ,
Magyar/Hungar le-ni << [ l,e~i,-,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, - ,
Votyak/Udm lo- << [ ľ,o~u~e,-,]<< #l/ľ, e/o~u~e, - ,
Mordvin ľev-ks << [ l,e,-,]<< #l/l, - ,- ,
Finn/Suomi lie- << [ l,ie~e,-,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, - ,
Estonian elu << [ l,ie~e,-,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, - ,
Lapp/Saami lae- << [ l,ie~a,-,]<< #l/l, e/ie~a, - ,

Proto *leil==(lewle) spirit 2
EmeGir/Sumer lil << [ l,a~u,i,l,]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, i/i/_l, l/l/F_,
Magyar/Hungar lél-ek << [ l,e~i,,l,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, i//V_, - ,
Vogul/Mansi lili-ät << [ l,ə,,l~Λ~t,]<< #l/l, e/ə/_V, i//V_, l/l~Λ~t,
Votyak/Udm lul << [ ľ,o~a,,l,]<< #l/ľ, e/o~a/_V, i//V_, - ,
Finn/Suomi löyly << [ l,ie~e,i~y,l,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, i/i~y, - ,
Estonian leil << [ l,ie~e,i~y,l,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, i/i~y, - ,
Lapp/Saami liewlâ << [ l,ie~a,i~ie,l,]<< #l/l, e/ie~a, i/i~ie, - ,

Proto *leme== juice
EmeGir/Sumer lum << [ l,a~u,m~n,(e~a),]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, m/m~n, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar lev, lé_ << [ l,e~i,m~v,e~i,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, m/m~v, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi lääm << [ l,i,m,i,]<< #l/l, e/i, - ,e/i,
Mordvin lem << [ l,e~i,m,o,]<< #l/l, e/e~i/_C, - ,e#/o,
Finn/Suomi lieme << [ l,ie~e,m,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, - ,e/ie~e,
Estonian leem << [ l,ie~e,m~mb,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, m/m~mb, e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami liebma << [ l,ie~a,m~mb,ie~a,]<< #l/l, e/ie~a, m/m~mb, e/ie~a,

Proto *lepe== leaf
EmeGir/Sumer lam << [ l,a~u,m,(e~a),]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, p/m/V_V, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar lev-él << [ l,e~i,v,e~i,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, p/v, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi lap-ta~lüva << [ l,i,p,i,]<< #l/l, e/i, - ,e/i,
Finn/Suomi leve << [ l,ie~e,p,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, - ,e/ie~e,

Proto *leppe== butterfly < soar / fly (animal) + ke =flying thing; (bird)
EmeGir/Sumer la_-ŋa << [ l,a~u,_,]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, ppV/_/CF_#,
Magyar/Hungar lep-ke << [ l,e~i,p~b,e~i,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, pp/p~b, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi lep-ax/lip-enti << [ l,i,p,,]<< #l/l, e/i, pp/p, e#//CC_,
Finn/Suomi liippu-kka, liippo << [ l,ie~e,pp~p,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, pp/pp~p/#CV_, e/ie~e,
Estonian libli-kas << [ l,ie~e,b,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, pp/b/#CV_, e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami lab-lok, libeluk <<l> shoot (v)
EmeGir/Sumer lah_ 4,5 << [ l,a~u,_,]<<l>lö << [ l,e~i,v,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi lə-, li-, ly- << [ l,i,w,i,]<< #l/l, e/i, w/w/F_V, e/i,
Votyak/Udm lii-ni << [ ľ,o~u~e,_,,]<< #l/ľ, e/o~u~e, w/_/F_V, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi lyõ-dä << [ l,ie~e,,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, wV#//V_,
Estonian lõõ-ma,lüüa, löön << [ l,ie~e,,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, wV#//V_,

Proto *lewδä== discover
EmeGir/Sumer lal << [ l,a~u,l,(a~e),]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, wδ/l, ä#/(a~e),
Magyar/Hungar lel << [ l,e~i,l,e,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wδ/l, ä/e,
Finn/Suomi läytää << [ l,ie~e,yt~ys,ä,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, wδ/yt~ys, ä#/ä,
Estonian leid-ma << [ l,ie~e,yd~ys,ä,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, wδ/yd~ys, ä#/ä,

Proto *leńće== the fly (animal)
Magyar/Hungar légy << [ l,e~ö,gy,e~i,]<< #l/l, e/e~ö/_P, ńć/gy, e/e~i,
Votyak/Udm leďź,luž << [ ľ,o~u~e,ź,,]<<l> flour
EmeGir/Sumer liš_ << [ l,e,š,(e~a),]<< #l/l, e/e/_Z, ś/š, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar lisz-t << [ l,e~ö,sz~z,e~i,]<< #l/l, e/e~ö/_P, ś/sz~z/F_V, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi ?lā-nt << [ l,i,ć~s,i,]<< #l/l, e/i, ś/ć~s, e/i,
Finn/Suomi lesiä << [ l,ie~e,s~ts,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, ś/s~ts, e/ie~e,
Estonian lese << [ l,ie~e,s~ts,ie~e,]<< #l/l, e/ie~e, ś/s~ts, e/ie~e,

Proto *lolke== limb (foot
EmeSal/Sumer lill-an << [ l,e,(l),_,]<<l> loll << [ l,o~a,l,e~i,]<< #l/l, o/o~a/_l(j), lk/l, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi lel << [ l,a~o~u,l(γ),,]<< #l/l, o/a~o~u, lk/l(γ), e#//CC_,

Proto *lomke== warm
EmeGir/Sumer lah, _àh << [ l,a,h,_,]<< #l/l, o/a/_N, mk/h, V#/_/Ck_,
Magyar/Hungar láng << [ l,a~é,ng,e~i,]<< #l/l, o/a~é, mk/ng, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi lum-et << [ l,a~o~u,m,,]<< #l/l, o/a~o~u, mk/m, e#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm lom-al-ni << [ ľ,o~a,m,,]<< #l/ľ, o/o~a, mk/m, e#//_,

Proto *lońća== mild
EmeGir/Sumer luh << [ l,u,g,a,]<< #l/l, o/ u, ńć/g/V_, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar lágy << [ l,a~é,gy,a~e,]<< #l/l, o/a~é, ńć/gy, a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi lańś-iη << [ l,a~o~u,ńš~š,,]<< #l/l, o/a~o~u, ńć/ńš~š, a#//CC_,
Lapp/Saami loažže << [ l,œ,žž,ē,]<< #l/l, o/œ, ńć/žž, a#/ē,

Proto *loηe==(loηe) throw away
EmeGir/Sumer la_-l, lá_ << [ l,a,(g),]<< #l/l, o/a/_N, ηV/(g)/_#,
Magyar/Hungar lóg << [ l,a~é,g~v,e~i,]<< #l/l, o/a~é, η/g~v, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi loηχei << [ l,a~o~u,η(k),i,]<< #l/l, o/a~o~u, η/η(k), e/i,
Votyak/Udm le_-di << [ ľ,o~a,_,]<< #l/ľ, o/o~a, ηV/_/X(γ)_#,
Mordvin loηe~lije-ms << [ l,o~u,η~j~v,o,]<< #l/l, o/o~u, η/η~j~v, e#/o,
Finn/Suomi luo-da << [ l,oo,_,]<< #l/l, V/VV/C_ηV, ηV/_/CV_#,
Estonian loo-ma << [ l,oo,_,]<< #l/l, V/VV/C_ηV, ηV/_/CV_#,
Lapp/Saami lagηo << [ l,œ,η~k,]<< #l/l, o/œ, ηV/η~k,

Proto *luke== figure, solve, count etc.
EmeGir/Sumer lá_ << [ l,a~u,_,(e~a),]<< #l/l, u/a~u, k/_/V_, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar olva-s << [ l,u~o,v,e~i,]<< #l/l, u/u~o, k/v/u_V, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi loη-at << [ l,u~o~ö,(γ~x),i,]<< #l/l, u/u~o~ö, k/(γ~x), e/i,
Votyak/Udm ly-d << [ ľ,i~e,_,,]<< #l/ľ, u/i~e, k/_, e#//_,
Mordvin lu-da << [ l,o,j~v,o,]<< #l/l, u/o, k/j~v, e#/o,
Finn/Suomi luke << [ l,u~o,k,ie~e,]<< #l/l, u/u~o, k/k/R_, e/ie~e,
Lapp/Saami lokkâ << [ l,u~o,kk,ie~a,]<< #l/l, u/u~o, k/kk/V_V, e/ie~a,

Proto *läppe== (läppe) spleen
EmeGir/Sumer lib-iš << [ l,a,_,]<< #l/l, ä/a, ppV/_/CF_#,
Magyar/Hungar lép << [ l,e,p~b,e~i,]<< #l/l, ä/e, pp/p~b, e/e~i,
Votyak/Udm lup << [ ľ,o~u,p,,]<< #l/ľ, ä/o~u, pp/p, e#//_,
Lapp/Saami tab'tē << [ l,ie~a,p'p,ie~a,]<< #l/l, ä/ie~a, pp/p'p, e/ie~a,

Proto *läče== keep an eye on
EmeGir/Sumer lá_ << [ l,a,š,(e~a),]<< #l/l, ä/a, č/š, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar leś << [ l,e,ś,e~i,]<< #l/l, ä/e, č/ś, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi läč, läś << [ l,ä~e,č~š~s,i,]<< #l/l, ä/ä~e, č/č~š~s, e/i,

Proto *lükke== shove
EmeGir/Sumer lah 4,5 << [ l,u~i,g~h,_,]<< #l/l, ü/u~i, kk/g~h, V#/_/Ck_,
Magyar/Hungar lök << [ l,ü~ö,k,e~i,]<< #l/l, ü/ü~ö, kk/k, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi läk-əm << [ l,u~o~a,k,,]<< #l/l, ü/u~o~a, kk/k, e#//CC_,
Finn/Suomi lykää << [ l,u,kk~k,ie~e,]<< #l/l, ü/u, kk/kk~k, e/ie~e,
Estonian lükkää << [ l,u,kk~k,ie~e,]<< #l/l, ü/u, kk/kk~k, e/ie~e,

Proto *lēppe==(läppe) cover
EmeGir/Sumer la_-l << [ l,ē,_,]<< #l/l, - ,ppV/_/CF_#,
Magyar/Hungar lep << [ l,ē,p~b,e~i,]<< #l/l, - ,pp/p~b, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi lēpi << [ l,I,p,,]<< #l/l, ē/I , pp/p, e#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm ľip << [ ľ,ē,p,,]<< #l/ľ, - ,pp/p, e#//_,
Mordvin leb, lep << [ l,ē,p~v,o,]<< #l/l, - ,pp/p~v, e#/o,
Lapp/Saami liehppa << [ l,â,p'p,ie~a,]<< #l/l, ē/â, pp/p'p, e/ie~a,

Proto *lū== people
EmeGir/Sumer lú << [ l,a,]<< #l/l, ū/a,
Magyar/Hungar _ö << [ l,u,]<< #l/l, ū/u,
Finn/Suomi luu << [ l,uu,]<< #l/l, ū/uu,

Can list various forms of the rules, that the program can sort on. Ultimately the best solution would be to combine the two types into a common one.
This form was for ease of verifying sound rules and finding new ones.
Fred

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Aspirated D (dh)

Postby millenia » 2007-11-09, 6:24

Aspirated D (dh) written as a Greek delta (δ)
The aspirated Dh, found normally internal to the word, generally becomes a D in Sumerian, but most likely this was also dh originally and possibly allways. Hungarian and a few FU languages change this to an L.

[quote]
Proto *-eδe==(?) comitative "with" (suffix)
EmeGir/Sumer -da, -ta << [ -,e~i,d,(e~a),]<< #-/-, e/e~i, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar -el,-al, -val, -vel << [ -,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #-/-, e/e~i, δ/l , e/e~i,
Estonian -ga? << [ -,e~i,t~d,e~i,]<< #-/-, e/e~i, δ/t~d, e/e~i,

Proto *eδe== front [ also in Altaic *eδer ]
EmeGir/Sumer èd_ > e_ 11 << [ e,d,(e~a),]<< #e/e, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar elö << [ e,l,e~i,]<< #e/e, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi iil-t << [ ä~a,(l~t),i,]<< #e/ä~a, δ/(l~t), e/i,
Finn/Suomi ede-n, edellä > esi << [ e,t~d,e~ie,]<< #e/e, δ/t~d, e/e~ie,
Estonian ette > esi << [ e,t~d,e~i,]<< #e/e, δ/t~d, e/e~i,

Proto *kaδa== abandon
EmeGir/Sumer kud << [ g>h,a~u,d,a,]<< #k/g>h/_RC , a/a~u/C_C, δ/d, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar hagy << [ h~g,a~e,l,a~e,]<< #k/h~g/_R, a/a~e, δ/l , a/a~e, [ l > gy is attested in Hu]
Vogul/Mansi xūľi << [ χ~h,o~u,(l~t),,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, a/o~u/_CV, δ/(l~t), a#//VC_,
Cherem/Mari koda- << [ k,a~o~u,d,,]<< #k/k, a/a~o~u, δ/d, a#//VC_,
Finn/Suomi kado-ta << [ k,a,t~d,a~o,]<< #k/k, - ,δ/t~d, a#/a~o,

Proto *koδe== remove
EmeGir/Sumer kud, ku_ 5 << [ g>h,u,d,(e~a),]<< #k/g>h/_RC , o/ u, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar héj-az? [l>ľ>j] << [ h~g,a~é,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, o/a~é, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi haľt, kõlt << [ χ~h,a~o~u,(l~t),i,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, o/a~o~u, δ/(l~t), e/i,
Cherem/Mari kõda-sa, kuda-sa << [ k,a~o~u,d,e,]<< #k/k, o/a~o~u, δ/d, - ,

Proto *kuδe== morning
EmeGir/Sumer húd << [ g>h,a~u,d,(e~a),]<< #k/g>h/_RC , u/a~u, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar hol+nap << [ h~g,u~o,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, u/u~o, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi hol,qol << [ χ~h,u~o~ö,(l~t),i,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, u/u~o~ö, δ/(l~t), e/i,

Proto *kuδe= (also kunte) belief > religious belief (origin uncertain) (religion)
EmeGir/Sumer gud-ug, gud-u, gúd-a << [ g>h,a~u,d,(e~a),]<< #k/g>h/_RC , u/a~u, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar hi_+szó >hisz, hív_ << [ h~g,u~o,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, u/u~o, δ/l , e/e~i,

Proto *kuδe== cattle (animal)
EmeGir/Sumer gud > gu_ 4 << [ g>h,a~u,d,(e~a),]<< #k/g>h/_RC , u/a~u, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar gulya << [ h~g,u~o,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, u/u~o, δ/l , e/e~i,

Proto *lewδä== discover
EmeGir/Sumer lal << [ l,a~u,l,(a~e),]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, wδ/l, ä#/(a~e),
Magyar/Hungar lel << [ l,e~i,l,e,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wδ/l, ä/e,
Finn/Suomi läytää << [ l,e~ie,yt~ys,ä,]<< #l/l, e/e~ie, wδ/yt~ys, ä#/ä,
Estonian leid-ma << [ l,e~i,yd~ys,ä,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wδ/yd~ys, ä#/ä,

Proto *naδe== at
EmeGir/Sumer nád << [ n~ŋ,a~u,d,(e~a),]<< #n/n~ŋ, a/a~u/C_C, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
EmeSal/Sumer ma.ma, ma-r << [ l~m,e,z,(e~a),]<< #n/l~m/_R, a/e/C_C, δ/z, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar nál, -nan (l~n) << [ n,a~e,l,e~i,]<< #n/n, a/a~e, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi ńù_-peľ << [ n~ń,o~u,(l~t),i,]<< #n/n~ń, a/o~u/_CV, δ/(l~t), e/i,
Finn/Suomi naa << [ n,a,t~d,e~ie,]<< #n/n, - ,δ/t~d, e/e~ie,
Estonian naa << [ n,a,t~d,e~i,]<< #n/n, - ,δ/t~d, e/e~i,

Proto *niδe== shaft, tool handle
EmeGir/Sumer ŋe_-š << [ n~ŋ,i~e,d,(e~a),]<< #n/n~ŋ, i/i~e, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar nyél*(wood) handle,nyil << [ n,i~e,l,e~i,]<< #n/n, i/i~e, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi näl << [ n~ń,i~ü,(l~t),i,]<< #n/n~ń, i/i~ü, δ/(l~t), e/i,

Proto *oδa== sleep ; oδa-me=dream (v)
EmeGir/Sumer š-ed << [ u,d,a,]<< #o/u, δ/d, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar al+sz- << [ a~á,l,a~e,]<< #o/a~á, δ/l , a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi uul-əm << [ o~u,(l~t),,]<< #o/o~u, δ/(l~t), a#//VC_,
Cherem/Mari om(õ) << [ a~o~u,d,,]<< #o/a~o~u, δ/d, a#//VC_,
Finn/Suomi voodi << [ o~a,t~d,a~o,]<< #o/o~a, δ/t~d, a#/a~o,
Estonian voodi << [ o~a,t~d,ē,]<< #o/o~a, δ/t~d, a#/ē,

Proto *oδa-ma== dream
EmeGir/Sumer ùdi- << [ u,d,a,_,]<< #o/u, δ/d, a/a, -mV#/_,
Magyar/Hungar al-mu > ál-om, alv_ << [ a~á,l,a~e,-m~v,_,]<< #o/a~á, δ/l , a/a~e, -m/-m~v, a#/_/m_,
Vogul/Mansi ül-em << [ o~u,(l~t),a,-m,_,]<< #o/o~u, δ/(l~t), - ,-m/-m, a#/_/m_,

Proto *paδe= land, earth
EmeGir/Sumer bad << [ p~b,a~u,d,(e~a),]<< #p/p~b, a/a~u/C_C, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar föl-d << [ b>f,a~e,l,e~i,]<< #p/b>f, a/a~e, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi pale << [ p,o~u,(l~t),i,]<< #p/p, a/o~u/_CV, δ/(l~t), e/i,

Proto *paδe== wall (?earthen wall), dam
EmeGir/Sumer bad 3 << [ p~b,a~u,d,(e~a),]<< #p/p~b, a/a~u/C_C, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar fal << [ b>f,a~e,l,e~i,]<< #p/b>f, a/a~e, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi pat,paλ << [ p,o~u,(l~t),i,]<< #p/p, a/o~u/_CV, δ/(l~t), e/i,
Finn/Suomi pato << [ p,a,t~d,e~ie,]<< #p/p, - ,δ/t~d, e/e~ie,

Proto *peδε==(poδe) high
EmeGir/Sumer bad << [ p~b,a~u,d,i~e,]<< #p/p~b, e/a~u/#Ŝ_, δ/d, ε#/i~e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar fel~föl << [ b>f,e~i,l,ε,]<< #p/b>f, e/e~i, δ/l , - ,
Vogul/Mansi pal-it << [ p,i,(l~t),,]<< #p/p, e/i, δ/(l~t), ε#//_ ,
Finn/Suomi pit-ka << [ p,e~ie,t~d,ε,]<< #p/p, e/e~ie, δ/t~d, ε#/ε,
Estonian pikk- ? << [ p,e~i,t~d,ε,]<< #p/p, e/e~i, δ/t~d, ε#/ε,

Proto *täwδe== (& telke?) full
EmeGir/Sumer til << [ t,a,l,(e~a),]<< #t/t/_F, ä/a, wδ/l, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar tel-e << [ t,e,l,e~i,]<< #t/t, ä/e, wδ/l, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi tail << [ t,ä~e,l,,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, wδ/l, e#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari tiťš << [ t,ä~e,t,e,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, wδ/t, - ,
Finn/Suomi täis << [ t,ä,yt~ys,e~ie,]<< #t/t, - ,wδ/yt~ys, e/e~ie,
Estonian täis << [ t,ä,yd~ys,e~i,]<< #t/t, - ,wδ/yd~ys, e/e~i,

Proto *wiδe== brain marrow + ( *ma formative )
Magyar/Hungar vel-ö << [ ve,l,e~i,]<< #wi/ve, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi vuål-em, vålem, βoal-em << [ vu,(l~t),i,]<< #wi/vu/_D, δ/(l~t), e/i,
Cherem/Mari βi_-m << [ w~β,i,d,e,]<< #w/w~β, - ,δ/d, - ,
Finn/Suomi _ydi-n << [ _y,t~d,e~ie,]<< #wi/_y/_DV, δ/t~d, e/e~ie,
Estonian _üdi << [ _ü,t~d,e~i,]<< #wi/_ü/_DV, δ/t~d, e/e~i;


Proto *wäδε== [also wiδe] kill (v) Ugrian > waδe
EmeGir/Sumer bad << [ b,u~a,d,i~e,]<< #w/b/_VA, ä/u~a/#w_, δ/d, ε#/i~e/C_,
Magyar/Hungar _öl << [ _,e,l,ε,]<< #w/_/_VA, ä/e, δ/l , - ,
Vogul/Mansi _ääl- << [ (w),ä~e,(l~t),,]<< #w/(w)/_F, ä/ä~e, δ/(l~t), ε#//_ ,

Proto *ćaδa== to mating season, run with the herd.
EmeGir/Sumer šed << [ š>s,a~u,d,a,]<< #ć/š>s, a/a~u/C_C, δ/d, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar szal-ad =run, szül=born ?<< [ s~cs,a~e,l,a~e,]<< #ć/s~cs, a/a~e, δ/l , a/a~e,
Finn/Suomi suotia << [ s,a,t~d,a~o,]<< #ć/s, - ,δ/t~d, a#/a~o,

Proto *koδe== remove
EmeGir/Sumer kud, ku_ 5 << [ g>h,u,d,(e~a),]<< #k/g>h/_RC , o/ u, δ/d, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar héj-az? [l>ľ>j] << [ h~g,a~é,l,e~i,]<< #k/h~g/_R, o/a~é, δ/l , e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi haľt, kõlt << [ χ~h,a~o~u,(l~t),i,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, o/a~o~u, δ/(l~t), e/i,
Cherem/Mari kõda-sa, kuda-sa << [ k,a~o~u,d,e,]<< #k/k, o/a~o~u, δ/d, - , [/quote]

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Aspirated Gh

Postby millenia » 2007-11-09, 7:08

The aspirated g (Gh)
uses the greek γ to represent it. Digraphs are avoided that way.
This generally becomes the ŋ (nasal vellar) in Sumerian which is often symbolized as a g~
but is not a g. That symbol seems to be a catchall in Sumerian for several sound changes.
In Hungarian and several FU languages it becomes v or j, and the v may further be deleted
at the end of words. Some of the languages havent been completed for the sound rules for
for the Gh.

Proto *juγe== (or juγe) drink < ? joki= water
EmeGir/Sumer *ŋa_ > na 8 << [ ŋ~g,a~u,_,]<< #j/ŋ~g/_R, u/a~u, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar _iv-, _i- , i-sz << [ j~gy,u~o,v~j,]<< #j/j~gy, u/u~o, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi äj- << [ j,u~o~ö,γ~x~w,]<< #j/j/_R, u/u~o~ö, γV#/γ~x~w,
Cherem/Mari jüä- ;düa- << [ j,o~u,(γ),]<< #j/j, u/o~u, γV#/(γ),
Zuryen/Komi ju- << [ j,i~e,_,,]<< #j/j, u/i~e, γ/_, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi juo- << [ j,u~o,(v),]<< #j/j, u/u~o, γV#/(v),
Lapp/Saami jukkâ << [ j,u~o,γ~k~hk,]<< #j/j, u/u~o, γV#/γ~k~hk,

Proto *maγe== land
EmeGir/Sumer ma-da << [ m,a~u,_,]<< #m/m, a/a~u/C_C, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar megye << [ m,a~e,v~j,]<< #m/m, a/a~e, γV#/v~j,
Savard/Hungar maha
Vogul/Mansi má, me << [ m,o~u,γ~x~w,]<< #m/m, a/o~u/_CV, γV#/γ~x~w,
Finn/Suomi maa << [ m,a,(v),]<< #m/m, - ,γV#/(v),
Estonian maa << [ m,a,γ,e~i,]<< #m/m, - ,- ,e/e~i,
Etruskan ma 2 << [ m,a,γ,i~u,]<< #m/m, - ,- ,e#/i~u,

Proto *palγe== town (house)
Magyar/Hungar falva ~ falú << [ b>f,a~ö,l,v~j,]<< #p/b>f, a/a~ö/_l, - ,γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi puwal, pavəl << [ p,a,l~Λ~t,γ~x~w,]<< #p/p, - ,l/l~Λ~t, γV#/γ~x~w,
Finn/Suomi palvi << [ p,a,l,(v),]<< #p/p, - ,- ,γV#/(v),
Etruskan falu-θ_ras << [ f~p,a,l,γ,i~u,]<< #p/f~p, - ,- ,- ,e#/i~u,

Proto *parγε== (p8rγε) tired (a)
Magyar/Hungar fára-dt << [ b>f,a~e,r,v~j,]<< #p/b>f, a/a~e, - ,γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi poβra-mat, po`bbaräl- << [ p,a,r,γ~x~w,]<< #p/p, - ,- ,γV#/γ~x~w,
Etruskan farθ-naχe, fartθ-an << [ f~p,a,r,γ,ε,]<< #p/f~p, - ,- ,- ,- ,

Proto *poγηe==(? poηe) bosom
Magyar/Hungar bögy, begy << [ b,a~é,γ,g~v,e~i,]<< #p/b/_o, o/a~é, - ,η/g~v, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi puw-ťi > puut << [ p,a~o~u,γ,η,,]<< #p/p, o/a~o~u, - ,η/η/C_, e#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari poη-õš, pom-õš << [ p,a~o~u,γ,η~ηg,_,]<< #p/p, o/a~o~u, - ,η/η~ηg/C_, e#/_/η_,
Zuryen/Komi pi_ << [ p~b,o~a,_,_,]<< #p/p~b, o/o~a, γ/_, ηV/_/X(γ)_#,
Mordvin pova~poη-go, << [ p,o~u,γ,_,]<< #p/p, o/o~u, - ,ηV/_/C_,
Finn/Suomi povi << [ p,a~o,γ,(v),e~ie,]<< #p/p, o/a~o, - ,η/(v), e/e~ie,
Lapp/Saami buogηâ << [ b,œ,γ,η~k,]<< #p/b, o/œ, - ,ηV/η~k,

Proto *puγe==( also ?puwe) to suffocate
Magyar/Hungar fu_l-ad << [ b~f,u~o,v~j,]<< #p/b~f/_u, u/u~o, γV#/v~j,
Zuryen/Komi põ-d- << [ p~b,i~e,_,,]<< #p/p~b, u/i~e, γ/_, e#//_,
Mordvin pova-, puva- << [ p,o,(v~j),]<< #p/p, u/o, γV#/(v~j),
Estonian poo- << [ p,u~o,γ,e~i,]<< #p/p, u/u~o, - ,e/e~i,
Lapp/Saami puuve << [ b,u~o,γ~k~hk,]<< #p/b, u/u~o, γV#/γ~k~hk,

Proto *pušγe== (pućγe) well up - water
EmeGir/Sumer *buz > bu_ 6 << [ p~b,a~u,z~s,_,]<< #p/p~b, u/a~u, š/z~s, γV#/_/_,
EmeSal/Sumer biz << [ p~b,e,z,_,]<< #p/p~b, u/e, š/z, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar buz-og << [ b~f,u~o,z,v~j,]<< #p/b~f/_u, u/u~o, š/z, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi posx,pasγ << [ p,u~o~ö,s>z,γ~x~w,]<< #p/p, u/u~o~ö, š/s>z, γV#/γ~x~w,

Proto *puγe== blow (v)
EmeGir/Sumer bu_5, bu_ 7 << [ p~b,a~u,_,]<< #p/p~b, u/a~u, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar fúj, fuv, fú_ << [ b~f,u~o,v~j,]<< #p/b~f/_u, u/u~o, γV#/v~j,
Savard/Hungar fuv-in << [ f~v,u~o,v~j,]<< #p/f~v/_u, u/u~o, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi puγ, puw- << [ p,u~o~ö,γ~x~w,]<< #p/p, u/u~o~ö, γV#/γ~x~w,
Cherem/Mari pu_e-m << [ p,o~u,(γ),]<< #p/p, u/o~u, γV#/(γ),
Mordvin puva-ms << [ p,o,(v~j),]<< #p/p, u/o, γV#/(v~j),

Proto *roγe== cut
EmeGir/Sumer ra_ << [ r,u,_,]<< #r/r, o/ u, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar rajz, rov << [ r,a~é,v~j,]<< #r/r, o/a~é, γV#/v~j,
Cherem/Mari roe,rue- << [ r,a~o~u,(γ),]<< #r/r, o/a~o~u, γV#/(γ),
Etruskan ar- 1 << [ r,e~i,γ,i~u,]<< #r/r, o/e~i, - ,e#/i~u,

Proto *seγe== [or sewe] eat 2 (v)
Magyar/Hungar _ev- > _e_ << [ _,e~i,v~j,]<< #s/_, e/e~i, γV#/v~j,
Savard/Hungar hentin << [ _,e~i,v~j,]<< #s/_, e/e~i, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi tii, tääj << [ t,i,γ~x~w,]<< #s/t, e/i, γV#/γ~x~w,
Zuryen/Komi śoi_ << [ š,o~u~e,_,,]<< #s/š, e/o~u~e, γ/_, e#//_,
Mordvin śev'e-ms << [ s,e~i,(v~j),]<< #s/s, e/e~i/_C, γV#/(v~j),
Finn/Suomi syö-dä << [ s,e~ie,(v),]<< #s/s, e/e~ie, γV#/(v),
Etruskan *tsece > s_ce << [ (ts),e,γ,i~u,]<< #s/(ts), - ,- ,e#/i~u,

Proto *suγe== finn
EmeGir/Sumer e-ssa-du << [ s,a~u,_,]<< #s/s, u/a~u, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar uszo-ny << [ _,u~o,v~j,]<< #s/_, u/u~o, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi tow << [ t,u~o~ö,γ~x~w,]<< #s/t, u/u~o~ö, γV#/γ~x~w,
Cherem/Mari šua-, šue- << [ š,o~u,(γ),]<< #s/š, u/o~u, γV#/(γ),
Zuryen/Komi sy_-n- << [ š,i~e,_,,]<< #s/š, u/i~e, γ/_, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi sou-ta- ; ?ewä << [ s,u~o,(v),]<< #s/s, u/u~o, γV#/(v),
Lapp/Saami sukkâ << [ s~š,u~o,γ~k~hk,]<< #s/s~š, u/u~o, γV#/γ~k~hk,

Proto *taγε== view
EmeGir/Sumer -da << [ d,a~u,_,]<< #t/d/_R, a/a~u/C_C, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar táj << [ t,a~e,v~j,]<< #t/t, a/a~e, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi taγe << [ t,o~u,γ~x~w,]<< #t/t, a/o~u/_CV, γV#/γ~x~w,
Lapp/Saami ?taiw << [ d~t,o>uo,γ~k~hk,]<< #t/d~t, a/o>uo, γV#/γ~k~hk,

Proto *teγe== (teke) do
EmeGir/Sumer dùg, du_ << [ t~d,a~u,_,]<< #t/t~d/_Y, e/a~u/#Ŝ_, γV#/_/_,
EmeSal/Sumer dim << [ d,e,_,]<< #t/d/_Y, e/e/#Ŝ_, γV#/_/_,
Magyar/Hungar tev-,te_-sz, << [ t,e~i,v~j,]<< #t/t, e/e~i, γV#/v~j,
Savard/Hungar tün << [ t,e~i,v~j,]<< #t/t, e/e~i, γV#/v~j,
Mordvin teje-ms << [ ť,e~i,(v~j),]<< #t/ť/_F, e/e~i/_C, γV#/(v~j),
Finn/Suomi teh-dä << [ t,e~ie,(v),]<< #t/t, e/e~ie, γV#/(v),
Estonian teg-ema << [ t,e~i,γ,e~i,]<< #t/t, e/e~i, - ,e/e~i,
Lapp/Saami dākkât << [ d~t,æ~ie~i,γ~k~hk,]<< #t/d~t, e/æ~ie~i/_C, γV#/γ~k~hk,
Etruskan θez, θes, θa-m, θe-n << [ t~θ,e,γ,i~u,]<< #t/t~θ, - ,- ,e#/i~u,

Proto *uγetka== portage
EmeGir/Sumer gud << [ g,e~i,t,_,_,]<< #Vγ/g/_, e/e~i, - ,k/_/C_, V#/_/Ck_,
Magyar/Hungar ú_t_ << [ u,e~i,t,k,a~e,]<< #Vγ/V/_VC, e/e~i, - ,- ,a/a~e,
Savard/Hungar hu_tu_ > u_tu_ << [ u,e~i,t,k,a~o,]<< #Vγ/V/_VC, e/e~i, - ,- ,a/a~o,
Vogul/Mansi a'xt, úγet << [ a,γ,i,t,(γ~x),,]<< #u/a/_G, - ,e/i, t/t, k/(γ~x), a#//CC_,
Etruskan _ _ te-z-an << [ u,γ,e,t,_,a,]<< #u/u, - ,- ,- ,k/_/C_, - ,

Proto *äγε== (or äwε) girl > daughter (family)
EmeGir/Sumer _ge << [ g,,]<< #Vγ/g/_, ε#//#VU_ ,
Savard/Hungar āgi, äu << [ a,v~j,]<< #ä/a, γV#/v~j,
Vogul/Mansi ēu-i << [ i,γ~x~w,]<< #ä/i/_U, γV#/γ~x~w, ???

Proto *čeγelte== tickle (v)
Magyar/Hungar csikland-oz << [ s~cs,e~i,h,e~i,lt,e~i,]<< #č/s~cs, e/e~i, γ/h/_VC, e/e~i, lt/lt, e/e~i,
Cherem/Mari tsəγelte_m << [ č~š,e~y~ə,γ,e~y~ə,l,δ~t,e,]<< #č/č~š, e/e~y~ə/_C, - ,e/e~y~ə/_C, - ,t/δ~t, - ,
Lapp/Saami čâgâlduťtet << [ č~c,æ~ie~i,γ,æ~ie~i,l,ht~tt,e,]<< #č/č~c, e/æ~ie~i/_C, - ,e/æ~ie~i/_C, - ,t/ht~tt, - ,

Proto *śuγer==a grave (house) (religion)
EmeGir/Sumer suŋ-in, sun << [ š>s,a~u,ŋ~n,a~u,r,]<< #ś/š>s, u/a~u, γ/ŋ~n/V_VC, e/a~u/_r, - ,
Magyar/Hungar syher,suer > sír << [ sz,u~o,h,o,r,]<< #ś/sz, u/u~o, γ/h/_VC, e/o/_r, - ,
Cherem/Mari šüγär, šüγar << [ š~s,o~u,γ,e~y~ə,r,]<< #ś/š~s, u/o~u, - ,e/e~y~ə/_C, - ,
Etruskan asu_, ašu_ << [ s~z,a,γ,e,r,]<< #ś/s~z, u/a, - ,- ,- ,

millenia
Posts: 57
Joined: 2007-09-22, 6:33
Real Name: Fred Hamori
Gender: male
Location: Huntington Beach, California
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Internal W

Postby millenia » 2007-11-10, 6:29

The internal W is normally deleted in Sumerian especially next to another consonant.
as a lead consonant it remains.

Proto *alwe-== (alwe-me) other side
EmeGir/Sumer ulli, ul_ << [ u,l,_,e~i,-,]<< #a/u/_lw, l/l/#V_, w/_, e/e~i, - ,
Magyar/Hungar elve > elü > el- << [ a,l,e~i,-,]<< #a/a, lw/l, e/e~i, - ,
Vogul/Mansi al-em << [ a~ä,l,i,-,]<< #a/a~ä, lw/l, e/i, - ,

Proto *arwa== consider
EmeGir/Sumer ára << [ a~u,r,a,]<< #a/a~u/_r, rC/r, a/a,
EmeSal/Sumer er_-im << [ e~i,r,e,]<< #a/e~i/_r, rC/r, a/e,
Magyar/Hungar érv << [ a,r,v,]<< #a/a, - ,wV#/v/_,
Votyak/Udm ar-tal-ni << [ a,r,(v),e,]<< #a/a, - ,w/(v)/C_, a#/e,
Mordvin ar-še-ms << [ a,r,_,a~o,]<< #a/a, - ,w/_/C_, a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi arvo << [ a~e,r,v,o,]<< #a/a~e, - ,w/v/C_, a#/o/w_,
Estonian aru << [ a~e,r,u,o,]<< #a/a~e , - ,w/u/C_, a#/o/w_,
Lapp/Saami arvo << [ (vu)a,r,v,o,]<< #a/(vu)a/_r, - ,w/v/C_, a#/o/w_,

Proto *irwε== glad
EmeGir/Sumer ár_, ár_a << [ a~u,r,,]<< #i/a~u/_rw, rC/r, ε#//CC_,
Magyar/Hungar örv-end << [ i~a~ö,r,v,]<< #i/i~a~ö/_r, - ,wV#/v/_,
Finn/Suomi riemu << [ y~i,r,v,ε,]<< #i/y~i, - ,w/v/C_, ε#/ε,
Estonian riim << [ i,r,u,ε,]<< #i/i, - ,w/u/C_, ε#/ε,
Lapp/Saami ârvuk << [ i,r,v,ε,]<< #i/i, - ,w/v/C_, ε#/ε,

Proto *kaśwa==gain
EmeGir/Sumer *haš > he_2 << [ g>h,a~u,š,_,]<< #k/g>h/_RC , a/a~u/C_C, ś/š, wV#/_/C_,
Magyar/Hungar hasz-on << [ h~g,a~e,ś,v,]<< #k/h~g/_R, a/a~e, - ,wV#/v/_,
Cherem/Mari kuš-k-am << [ k,a~o~u,ž,_,,]<< #k/k, a/a~o~u, ś/ž, w/_/C_, a#//CC_,
Mordvin kaś-oms << [ k,a,ś,_,a~o,]<< #k/k, - ,ś/ś, w/_/C_, a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi kasvaa << [ k,a,s~ts,v,o,]<< #k/k, - ,ś/s~ts, w/v/C_, a#/o/w_,
Estonian kasva-ma << [ k,a,s~ts,u,o,]<< #k/k, - ,ś/s~ts, w/u/C_, a#/o/w_,

Proto *kewe== [or *kewe] female animal [ m~w] (animal) (family)
EmeGir/Sumer gi4-īn, geme ~ ŋéme =slave/servan woman << [ k,a~u,_,]<< #k/k, e/a~u/#Ŝ_, wV#/_/C(V)_,
Magyar/Hungar gím << [ k,e~i,v,]<< #k/k/_F, e/e~i, wV#/v/_,
Lapp/Saami kieuva << [ g,æ~ie~i,v,e,]<< #k/g, e/æ~ie~i/_C, w/v/V_, - ,

Proto *kiwe== stone
EmeGir/Sumer kim << [ k,i~e,_,]<< #k/k, i/i~e, wV#/_/C(V)_,
Magyar/Hungar kö(v) << [ k,i~e,v,]<< #k/k/_F, i/i~e, wV#/v/_,
Savard/Hungar kevi << [ k,i~e,v,]<< #k/k/_F, i/i~e, wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi kúw,käw << [ k(w),o~u,w,i,]<< #k/k(w)/_F, i/o~u/#k_w, w/w/F_V, e/i,
Cherem/Mari kü_,küi << [ k,ü,(j),e,]<< #k/k, i/ü/#k_w, w/(j)/V_V, - ,
Votyak/Udm ko_,kü_ << [ k,ü~o,_,,]<< #k/k, i/ü~o/#k_w, w/_/F_V, e#//_,
Mordvin kev_ << [ k,i~e,v,o,]<< #k/k, i/i~e, w/v/V_V, e#/o,
Finn/Suomi kivi << [ k,i~y,,]<< #k/k, i/i~y, wV#//V_,
Estonian kivi,kive << [ k,i~y,,]<< #k/k, i/i~y, wV#//V_,

Proto *kurwε==(korwe) scrape
EmeGir/Sumer hur_, _ur5 << [ g>h,a~u,r,,]<< #k/g>h/_RC , u/a~u, rC/r, ε#//CC_,
Magyar/Hungar hor-ul,hor-zs-ol << [ h~g,u~o,r,v,]<< #k/h~g/_R, u/u~o, - ,wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi kårš-el,kurav-ni << [ χ~h,u~o~ö,r,_,,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, u/u~o~ö, - ,w/_/C_, ε#//_ ,
Votyak/Udm kurj-al << [ k,i~e,r,(v),,]<< #k/k, u/i~e, - ,w/(v)/C_, ε#//_,
Finn/Suomi karvi << [ k,u~o,r,v,ε,]<< #k/k, u/u~o, - ,w/v/C_, ε#/ε,

Proto *kuwla== (kupla) makes bubbles > fish bladder (body)
EmeGir/Sumer *hella > _ella-g << [ g>h,a~u,_,l,a,]<< #k/g>h/_RC , u/a~u, w/_, - ,a/a,
Magyar/Hungar holy-ag << [ h~g,u~o,l,a~e,]<< #k/h~g/_R, u/u~o, wl/l, a/a~e,
Vogul/Mansi kawel-m << [ χ~h,u~o~ö,βl,,]<< #k/χ~h/_R, u/u~o~ö, wl/βl, a#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari kõwõl, kuwõl << [ k,o~u,βl,,]<< #k/k, u/o~u, wl/βl, a#//CC_,
Finn/Suomi kupla, kuula, kuulo << [ k,u~o,pl,a~o,]<< #k/k, u/u~o, wl/pl, a#/a~o,
Lapp/Saami goblo/koble << [ g,u~o,bl,ē,]<< #k/g, u/u~o, wl/bl, a#/ē,

Proto *küľwe== (kaľwe) thickening skin
EmeGir/Sumer kul_ << [ k,u~i,l~r,_,]<< #k/k, ü/u~i, ľ/l~r, wV#/_/C_,
Magyar/Hungar hály-og << [ k,ü~ö,j~l,v,]<< #k/k/_F, ü/ü~ö, ľ/j~l, wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi χaľ-p << [ k(w),u~o~a,ľ~ť~>k',_,,]<< #k/k(w)/_F, ü/u~o~a, ľ/ľ~ť~>k', w/_/C_, e#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm kiľ << [ k,i~e,l'~j,(v),,]<< #k/k, ü/i~e, ľ/l'~j, w/(v)/C_, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi kalvo << [ k,u,l,v,e~ie,]<< #k/k, ü/u, ľ/l, w/v/C_, e/e~ie,
Estonian kale << [ k,u,l,u,e~i,]<< #k/k, ü/u, ľ/l, w/u/C_, e/e~i,

Proto *lewe==(lewe) throw > shoot (v)
EmeGir/Sumer lah_ 4,5 << [ l,a~u,_,]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, wV#/_/C(V)_,
Magyar/Hungar löv >lö << [ l,e~i,v,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi lə-, li-, ly- << [ l,i,w,i,]<< #l/l, e/i, w/w/F_V, e/i,
Cherem/Mari lüje-m << [ l,e~y~ə,(j),e,]<< #l/l, e/e~y~ə/_C, w/(j)/V_V, - ,
Votyak/Udm lii-ni << [ ľ,o~u~e,_,,]<< #l/ľ, e/o~u~e, w/_/F_V, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi lyõ-dä << [ l,e~ie,,]<< #l/l, e/e~ie, wV#//V_,
Estonian lõõ-ma,lüüa, löön << [ l,e~i,,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wV#//V_,

Proto *lewδä== discover
EmeGir/Sumer lal << [ l,a~u,l,(a~e),]<< #l/l, e/a~u/#l_, wδ/l, ä#/(a~e),
Magyar/Hungar lel << [ l,e~i,l,e,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wδ/l, ä/e,
Finn/Suomi läytää << [ l,e~ie,yt~ys,ä,]<< #l/l, e/e~ie, wδ/yt~ys, ä#/ä,
Estonian leid-ma << [ l,e~i,yd~ys,ä,]<< #l/l, e/e~i, wδ/yd~ys, ä#/ä,

Proto *owe== opening >> window
EmeGir/Sumer ab_ << [ a,b,(e~a),]<< #o/a/_w, w/b/#V_, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar ab-lak [v>b] << [ a~á,v,]<< #o/a~á, wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi āwi << [ a,w,i,]<< #o/a/_w, w/w/#V_, e/i,
Cherem/Mari ama-sa, oma-sa, op-sa (w~m) << [ a~o~u,v,e,]<< #o/a~o~u, w/v/#V_, - ,
Finn/Suomi ovi << [ o~a,,]<< #o/o~a, wV#//V_,
Estonian ava-ta << [ o~a,,]<< #o/o~a, wV#//V_,

Proto *pilwe== cloud
EmeGir/Sumer u-bill_a << [ p~b,i,l,_,]<< #p/p~b, i/i/_l, l/l/F_, wV#/_/C_,
Magyar/Hungar fel-hö ~ fel-eg << [ b>f,i~e,l,e~i,]<< #p/b>f, i/i~e, lw/l, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi pel-əη << [ p,i~ü,l,,]<< #p/p, i/i~ü, lw/l, e#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari põl << [ p,i,l,e,]<< #p/p, - ,lw/l, - ,
Votyak/Udm piľ-em, pil << [ p~b,i,ľ,,]<< #p/p~b, - ,lw/ľ, e#//_,
Mordvin p'eľ << [ p,i~e,ľ,o,]<< #p/p, i/i~e, lw/ľ, e#/o,
Finn/Suomi pilvi << [ p,i~y,lv,e~ie,]<< #p/p, i/i~y, lw/lv, e/e~ie,
Lapp/Saami bâľvâ << [ b,i~ie,ľv,e,]<< #p/b, i/i~ie, lw/ľv, - ,

Proto *puwe== tree
EmeGir/Sumer abba_ << [ p~b,a~u,_,]<< #p/p~b, u/a~u, wV#/_/C(V)_,
Magyar/Hungar fav , fa_ << [ b~f,u,e~i,]<< #p/b~f/_u, Rw/u/_V, e/e~i,
Savard/Hungar fova ? fava << [ f~v,u,e~i,]<< #p/f~v/_u, Rw/u/_V, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi pä_ << [ p,a,i,]<< #p/p, Rw/a/_V, e/i,
Cherem/Mari pū_ << [ p,ū,e,]<< #p/p, Rw/ū/_V, - ,
Votyak/Udm pu_ << [ p~b,ū~ō,,]<< #p/p~b, Rw/ū~ō/_V, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi puu << [ p,uu~oo,e~ie,]<< #p/p, Rw/uu~oo/C_V, e/e~ie,
Estonian puu << [ p,uu~oo,e~i,]<< #p/p, Rw/uu~oo/_V, e/e~i,

Proto *telwe==(?) settlement (? winter quarters)(? bird settling) (v)
EmeGir/Sumer tìl_ 3 << [ t~d,a~u,l,_,]<< #t/t~d/_Y, e/a~u/#Ŝ_, l/l/F_, wV#/_/C_,
Magyar/Hungar tel-ep << [ t,e~i,l,e~i,]<< #t/t, e/e~i, lw/l, e/e~i,

Proto *tewe== to labour
EmeGir/Sumer dù_ << [ t~d,a~u,_,]<< #t/t~d/_Y, e/a~u/#Ŝ_, wV#/_/C(V)_,
Magyar/Hungar tev ~ te-sz << [ t,e~i,v,]<< #t/t, e/e~i, wV#/v/_,
Mordvin ťäv, ťev << [ ť,e~i,v,o,]<< #t/ť/_F, e/e~i/_C, w/v/V_V, e#/o,
Finn/Suomi työ << [ t,e~ie,,]<< #t/t, e/e~ie, wV#//V_,
Estonian töö << [ t,e~i,,]<< #t/t, e/e~i, wV#//V_,

Proto *tälwä== winter < cold ? (nature) [? talme m~w > talwe] (time)
EmeGir/Sumer ten_ << [ t,a,l,_,]<< #t/t/_F, ä/a, l/l/F_, wV#/_/C_, [ N ~ L alteration]
Magyar/Hungar tél << [ t,e,l,e,]<< #t/t, ä/e, lw/l, ä/e,
Vogul/Mansi täl,toal << [ t,ä~e,l,,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, lw/l, ä#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari tel << [ t,ä~e,l,,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, lw/l, ä#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm tol << [ t~d,o~u,ľ,,]<< #t/t~d, ä/o~u, lw/ľ, ä#//_,
Mordvin ťeľe << [ ť,ä~e,ľ,e,]<< #t/ť/_F, ä/ä~e, lw/ľ, ä#/e,
Finn/Suomi talv << [ t,ä,lv,ä,]<< #t/t, - ,lw/lv, ä#/ä,
Estonian talv << [ t,ä,lv,ä,]<< #t/t, - ,lw/lv, ä#/ä,
Lapp/Saami dalve << [ d~t,ie~a,ľv,ē,]<< #t/d~t, ä/ie~a, lw/ľv, ä#/ē,

Proto *täwte== fire (nature)
EmeGir/Sumer tab << [ t,a,b,t,(e~a),]<< #t/t/_F, ä/a, w/b/_t, - ,e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar tüz << [ t,e,-,d,e~i,]<< #t/t, ä/e, w/-/V_C, t/d/K_, e/e~i,
Savard/Hungar teszth << [ t,e,-,d,e~i,]<< #t/t, ä/e, w/-/V_C, t/d/K_, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi taβt << [ t,ä~e,-,t,,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, w/-/V_C, t/t, e#//CC_,

Proto *täwδe== (telke?) full
EmeGir/Sumer til << [ t,a,l,(e~a),]<< #t/t/_F, ä/a, wδ/l, e#/(e~a),
Magyar/Hungar tel-e << [ t,e,l,e~i,]<< #t/t, ä/e, wδ/l, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi tail << [ t,ä~e,l,,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, wδ/l, e#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari tiťš << [ t,ä~e,t,e,]<< #t/t, ä/ä~e, wδ/t, - ,
Votyak/Udm dol-ak << [ t~d,o~u,l,,]<< #t/t~d, ä/o~u, wδ/l, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi täis << [ t,ä,yt~ys,e~ie,]<< #t/t, - ,wδ/yt~ys, e/e~ie,
Estonian täis << [ t,ä,yd~ys,e~i,]<< #t/t, - ,wδ/yd~ys, e/e~i,
Lapp/Saami dəewd-et << [ d~t,ie~a,wd,e,]<< #t/d~t, ä/ie~a, wδ/wd, - ,

Proto *śorwa== horn
EmeGir/Sumer aš-ur 4 , si_ << [ š>s,u~a,r,a,]<< #ś/š>s, o/u~a/_r, rC/r, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar szarv, szaru << [ sz,o~a,r,v,]<< #ś/sz, o/o~a/_r, - ,wV#/v/_,
Savard/Hungar soru << [ s,o,r,v,]<< #ś/s, - ,- ,wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi soorp, šoorəp << [ s~t,a~o~u,r,_,,]<< #ś/s~t, o/a~o~u, - ,w/_/C_, a#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari šur << [ š~s,a~o~u,r,_,,]<< #ś/š~s, o/a~o~u, - ,w/_/C_, a#//CC_,
Votyak/Udm śur << [ ś~š,o~a,r,(v),e,]<< #ś/ś~š, o/o~a, - ,w/(v)/C_, a#/e,
Mordvin śuro,śură << [ š~ś,o~u,r,_,a~o,]<< #ś/š~ś, o/o~u, - ,w/_/C_, a#/a~o,
Finn/Suomi sarvi << [ s,a~o,r,v,o,]<< #ś/s, o/a~o, - ,w/v/C_, a#/o/w_,
Estonian sarv << [ s,a~o,r,u,o,]<< #ś/s, o/a~o, - ,w/u/C_, a#/o/w_,
Lapp/Saami čoarve << [ č,œ,r,v,o,]<< #ś/č, o/œ, - ,w/v/C_, a#/o/w_,

Proto *śurwa== stabb
EmeGir/Sumer sar_, šar_ << [ š>s,a~u,r,a,]<< #ś/š>s, u/a~u, rC/r, a/a,
Magyar/Hungar szúr << [ sz,u~o,r,v,]<< #ś/sz, u/u~o, - ,wV#/v/_,
Savard/Hungar surr << [ s,u~o,r,v,]<< #ś/s, u/u~o, - ,wV#/v/_,
Vogul/Mansi šōr-əp, sōr-p, šòr-p << [ s~t,u~o~ö,r,_,,]<< #ś/s~t, u/u~o~ö, - ,w/_/C_, a#//CC_,
Cherem/Mari šure, šore << [ š~s,o~u,r,_,,]<< #ś/š~s, u/o~u, - ,w/_/C_, a#//CC_,
Finn/Suomi surva-ise << [ s,u~o,r,v,o,]<< #ś/s, u/u~o, - ,w/v/C_, a#/o/w_,
Estonian suru-ma << [ s,u~o,r,u,o,]<< #ś/s, u/u~o, - ,w/u/C_, a#/o/w_,

Proto *śuwe== mouth 2 > śawe= word (body)
EmeGir/Sumer sù-l, su_ 6, << [ š>s,a~u,_,]<< #ś/š>s, u/a~u, wV#/_/C(V)_,
EmeSal/Sumer sun 4, šu.um-du.um << [ z,e,_,]<< #ś/z, u/e, wV#/_/C(V)_,
Magyar/Hungar száj << [ sz,u,e~i,]<< #ś/sz, Rw/u/_V, e/e~i,
Savard/Hungar szá(h) << [ s,u,e~i,]<< #ś/s, Rw/u/_V, e/e~i,
Vogul/Mansi sūp << [ s~t,a,i,]<< #ś/s~t, Rw/a/_V, e/i,
Cherem/Mari śu ? << [ š~s,ū,e,]<< #ś/š~s, Rw/ū/_V, - ,
Votyak/Udm śu << [ ś~š,ū~ō,,]<< #ś/ś~š, Rw/ū~ō/_V, e#//_,
Finn/Suomi suu << [ s,uu~oo,e~ie,]<< #ś/s, Rw/uu~oo/C_V, e/e~ie,
Estonian suu << [ s,uu~oo,e~i,]<< #ś/s, Rw/uu~oo/_V, e/e~i,
Lapp/Saami tsuuwe << [ č,u~o,v,e,]<< #ś/č, u/u~o, w/v/V_, - ,


Return to “Ancient, Classical and Extinct Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest