Hungarian and Sumerian?

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jumichlo
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Hungarian and Sumerian?

Postby jumichlo » 2004-04-12, 19:58

Searching for material concerning the writing system of the Old European Civilization in the South-east of Europe (Tartaria, Vinča,…) I found an article concerning a theory that the Hungarian language is related to old Sumerian.
Ever heard about that?

My first reaction was “why not – around Mesopotamia, Anatolia and the Black Sea always was quite a Babel”.
But because the whole article sounds somehow tearful-nationalistic to me I don’t know what to think about it (Quite often some nationalistic “historians” develop theories that their respective nation is the true carrier of civilization and so on…).

angry-NulNuk

Postby angry-NulNuk » 2004-04-13, 1:42

that thing is full of bull-shit!!!
firsth they say the Hungarians are desendents of
Kush ,
but acording to the Bible the Afrikans are the desendents of Kush
(Kush is the Biblical name of Afrika allso !
and in Hebrew Kushi=Afrikan ).

second ,the Magyars come from from the area of Skandinavia
and the Norther Ural montains ,same as the rest of the Finno-Ugaric
and the Huns are Tartars ,they came from Mongolia ,
non of those two come from Persia !.

thirth ,the Magyars came to Hungary after the Huns ,
htye were not there before ,before there used to live in
there German tribes ,not Finno-Ugaric !.

no one knows where the Sumerians came from ,there are many
teories ,but it is knowed into what they became ,
the desendents of the Sumerians are the Ixos and the
Akadians ,the Ixos moved to Egipt ,
the Akadians became Babylonians ,non of those went north!.
the Sumerian language is close related (antesesor)
or Sumerian Hebrew and Akadian ,and have no relationship
with Magyar wich is a Finno-Ugaric language ,or with
Tartar or Roma or any other language used by the
Huns and their alays (the Gypsis) .

the semitic ppl didnt arrived to messopotamia ,they
are originaly from Mesopotamia ,the Sumerians came
from some where else .

the Oldest cities are Yericho and Susita ,both Semitic
both in Israel ,not Sumerians.

I didnt keep readidnt till the end since there is no
point on that ,this article was writed by a stupid nationalistic person
that strongly belives the whole world civilisation was develop
from the magyars :0P

dont waste you`r time with this bullshit it will take you no where .

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Postby jumichlo » 2004-04-13, 19:00

Thanks for your clear comment, NulNuk! :D

angry-NulNuk

Postby angry-NulNuk » 2004-04-14, 7:31

second ,the Magyars come from from the area of Skandinavia
and the Norther Ural montains


yes, in the tames they came to Hungary ,they where
allready spredead from the Urals to Skandinavia
and then they tourn south to Hungary .
the Magyars are not a folk ,they are just a very
big Finno-Ugaric trive .
(actually I read some where they where two trives
before they got into Hungary)
I used to have actually lots of information about
Hungary and all the folks there ,but I don`t know
where I puted it now :0{
any way they did the same trip as the rest of the
Finno-Ugaric in Europa ,from the Urals to Skandinavia
and then they went south to eastern Europa .

froggie

Postby froggie » 2004-04-14, 9:59

I am studying Sumerian and my teacher told me that Sumerian is an isolated language. It is not related to Akkadian or any other semitic language, they just share the same writing (cuneiform). Sumerian was already dead and taught as a language of art at time of akkad. Most sources are actually from a time when Sumerian was not spoken anymore.
Froggie

PS: how is doggie?

froggie

Postby froggie » 2004-04-14, 10:01

One more thing. The Hungarians did NOT come from nowaday's Scandinavia. The origin of the finno-ugrian ppl is still sublect of debate, but they probably came from somewhere in the Ural. It was tried to find out via genetic analysis, but that did not work.
Froggie

angry-NulNuk

Postby angry-NulNuk » 2004-04-14, 12:48

I dont know what was you told ,but Akkadian have
Sumerian influence ,and there is an Hebrew dialect
(the oldest one) thats is very related to Sumerian
and was discovered some 10-15 years ago ,Sumerian
is an asolated language ,but both Akkadian and Hebrew
have Sumerian influence ,and there is even a teory
that Hebrew develop from Sumerian .

and Sumerian was NOT a dead language in the times
of Akkad ,Akkad was founded by Sumerians and Semitics,
and the Sumerians still spoked Sumerian in those times.

and I didnt say the Finno-Ugaric came from Skandinavia ,
and the strongest teaories about Finno-Ugaric is that
they come from the north of the Urals ,
but the Magyars did not got into Hungary from
the Urals ,they moved toguether with other Finno-Ugaric
trives ,from the Urals to Skandinavia ,and then they
moved south ,firsth on the Baltic shores ,
and then they start moving into the region of Hungary,
thats was after the Huns and the Rumans made
Hungary and Rumania (founded by the sons of Atilla ,
the Magyars came to Hungary after the Morabian pact
between their tribes ,long long after the Finno-Ugaric
had left the Ural montains and settled in Skandinavia ,
so tell that the Magyars cam from ither Skandinavia
or the Urals would be wrong ,they came from the region
between Skandinavia and the Urals ,and thats what I wroted !!!

and Doggie is fine :0} ,where is Froggie hiding though :0{

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Postby Kubi » 2004-04-14, 13:30

angry-NulNuk wrote:Sumerian
is an asolated language ,but both Akkadian and Hebrew
have Sumerian influence ,and there is even a teory
that Hebrew develop from Sumerian .

Of course Akkadian was influenced by Sumerian, but that doesn't mean that the languages were related. And I can't believe that Hebrew developed from Sumerian, in that case they should be related which is not the case.

and Sumerian was NOT a dead language in the times
of Akkad ,Akkad was founded by Sumerians and Semitics,
and the Sumerians still spoked Sumerian in those times.

According to my sources, Sumerian became extinguished around 2300 BC, and Akkad (the State) was founded around 2230 BC. There may have been some people who still spoke Sumerian, but it was definitely no longer a current language. At the time of Akkad's founding, the region was already populated mainly by Semitics.
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Postby Maci » 2004-04-14, 16:42

Interesting theories... :D

I know this 'Hungarian-Sumerian'-theory. It's very "popular" in Hungary.
I personally think that the Hungarian language is not related with Sumerian. There are maybe only some similar words or so.

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Postby Ozymandias » 2004-04-14, 19:26

Maci wrote:
There are maybe only some similar words or so.


English even has a word from Sumerian :) : abyss - a deep [or bottomless] chasm


Ozy

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Postby Kubi » 2004-04-15, 7:53

Ozymandias wrote:English even has a word from Sumerian :) : abyss - a deep [or bottomless] chasm

Hmm...what's a bottomless chasm, please :?: :wink:

SCNR
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Postby Ozymandias » 2004-04-15, 15:21

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=chasm

That's a pretty good definition. A 'bottomless chasm' would be a chasm...without a bottom. :D

The more I look at the word 'chasm' the stupider it looks... :roll:


Ozy

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Postby Kubi » 2004-04-16, 11:45

Ozymandias wrote:A 'bottomless chasm' would be a chasm...without a bottom. :D

Indeed :?: :shock: :wink: I'd really like to see one...*grin*
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Froggie

Postby Froggie » 2004-04-21, 11:10

Sumerian was not spoken anymor at the time of Akkad. It was an art language which was used to write poetry and songs for the gods. But th normal ppl spoke Akkadian, which is a semitic language, so anyway it is related to Hebrew. But not Sumerian. My teacher is quite an experton that field and he assured me gaain yesterday that Sumerian is isolated. There are many Sumerian words in Akkadian, though, and they also took over the writing. But so did the Persians, though they trasnsformed it into a phonetic alphabet.
Greetings from Groningen
Froggie

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Sumer-magyar

Postby Guest » 2004-12-31, 16:07

Do you know, so the Magyars have an oldest runics in the world, what is suitable for old and modern hungarian language? E.g. in New Scotland - in Yarmount - finded runics writeing, which was made by an man, was name Tyrkir, A.D. 992. The Magyar runics is very old, which can we read now, too, but oldest is B.D. 4500, from TORDOS and TATARLAKI Medallion (Transylvania).
Do you know, the UNESCO wrote about this in 1963: Vinca, Körös cultures in Carpathians? Körös culture had canal, tile stove. Tile stove was the typical heating form from the Carpathians to the Rhine, elsewhere used the fire-place.
Do you know what wrote Grover S. Krantz, in USA? And Mario Alinei, in Ultrichte Univ? His book is: "Etrusco, una forma arcaica di Ungherese". The old Magyar runics were 42 scripts, in the Etruscan were 20, and in the Latins are 24. The Magyars and Etruscs wrote from right to left, but the Latins only from left to right. We can read many etruscian runics words by hungarian language. And do you know that, so with except the hungarian, the latin and the old greak languages it nothing languages can no metrical form by hexameter?
Do you know, so we can read old egypt papers? (Moscau's Mathemathical Papers) And please: look at the Haplotype EU19, or Ab3st genetic marker maps. (Finno-ugric origin was the dictatorships' litteratures.
Do you know, what is the TAMANA-researching? It is the geografical-names recearching in the world, which are equivalents in the Carpathians-Bases. For example: "Magyar" name is 30 times in the world, on the every continents. And more geografical and familian names: cc. 8000 names.E.g. ARPAD (He was ruler of the magyars, when they come into Carpathian-Bases.) but it name was in Egypt, in the Middle-East, in Asia Minor. Or here is my town, in west-hungary: SZOMBATHELY (SZOMBAT=SATURDAY, HELY=PLACE, because here was countrial market on Saturday in Middle Ages) but old name is SAVARIA, and it was refounded by Emperor Claudius A.D. 45- Colonia Claudia Savaria, and later was name Steinamanger (german) it means= Stone in the plain, but SAVARIA was older: SAVAR (AVAR) = MAGYAR, SZABAR=SZABIR MAGYAR lived in Egypt and in the south-Caucas.)
How do you write father and his ancients in English?
Here are in hungarian: apa=father (but in Sumerian = ABA , in hungarian: apa=ATYA , ATYA=God,
Isten = God, ATYAISTEN = God of God, ATYAISTEN ! = ATYA-ÚR-ISTEN != Oh my God! , ÚR = master/husband/lord, and look at the Mesopotamia: UR and URUK.)
nagyapa = grandfather
dédapa = great-grandfather
ükapa = great-great grandfather
szépapa = great-great-great grandfather
óapa = great-great-great-great grandfather
ősapa = forefather --- ős = us = is ----- ISTEN = GOD ( See: STN in german: Stein = stone, but in hungarian STN is another meaning: SÁTÁN = Satan)
So, TEN --- TENGER = sea (Tengri (turky)= sea , TNGR = TNDR = DNGR TüNDéR(hungarian) = DiNGiR (sumerian) = fairy, but Ka-Dingir was the name of the own Sumeria.
Only the sumerian language and the hungarian language has the two forms of the conjugate: Nominative and Accusative.

Christmas : hungarian = Karácsony , but hungarian KERECSEN (=falcon) = sumerian GURUSON (=falcon ).
So, the hungarian KERECSEN = Christmas, because by the fore-Magyars - as by the steppen peoples - between december 20-25 was holiday the new to fly the falcons. (Son of the Sun). 'Only' since A.D. 325 is the Christmas a christian-catholic holiday.
It is a new example for a logical-psychological language:
business/affair/matter/transaction/deal etc. = ÜGY (but it is synonime with FOLYÓ = river)
and the persons of these (business...) = FÉL ( =half, but FÉL another meaning is "fear" or "afread".)
So: half + half = whole = EGÉSZ = EGY (= 1, but "az Egy" = "the One" = ISTEN) , but EGÉSZSÉG = health. ISTENSÉG = Godhead
Another: ÉR = very little brook /, cc. brooklet, but ÉR = vein = rib too.

If you want in this life most obscenes and most curses in the world: the hungarian language may to do it in the speaking and in the writing.
And I'd write yet about Ispahan's Codex, what is the hun-armenians dictionary from A.D. 400. E.g.: hun language: 1=etye, 2=kete, 3=harmu,10=tiz,11=tizenetye, magyar language: 1=egy, 2=kettő, 3=három, 10=tíz, 11=tizenegy etc...
horse : hun=lú , magyar=ló
horseshoe: hun=patakú, magyar=patkó
hoof: hun=patu, magyar=pata etc.
Stirrup: kengyel It was unknown to A.D. 900 in Europe! Or in Europe also unknown was the shoes (only peoples had sandals) , unknown was boots, drawers, coat....
And do you know: in the world only in Hungary, in Japan and in China writes first the family name, and after the Christian(fisrt) name, (as must in ordered list, or in the Phonebooks etc....)
By the hungarians was very important the familiar construction: the great-family, that's "boss" was/is the mother. Our country is the "Virgin Maria's country". But the mother-goddest is older.
Before 1st St. Stephan King , the hungarians had two rulers: a sacral/faith (his symbol was the white) , and a profan/militarial (his symbol was the red, As in Lower and Upper Egypt.). See for the hungarian arms of a nation.
Look around for the many hungarian emigrationed linguistics/philologists and sumerologist: Ida Bobula, Fred Hamori, Sándor Csőke, Ferenc Badinyi-Jós, János Maráczi, Bátor Vamos-Toth, Geza Radics etc.....
Today's hungarians can read and mean the 1000-1200 y old hungarian=magyar words. We have more than 200 000 popular songs with pentaton (as in USA dakota's indians), more than 5000 folk-tales, many based of sumerians, e.g. "Lúdas Matyi", or "Égigérő Fa" (Tree extend to the sky)
For today the hungarian language has more than 1.2 millions words. Only for the horse has more than 250 expressions. We have two equivalent words for the year: "év" and "esztendő".
In hungarian language the paired organ is one whole: arm, foot, eye,ear.. etc. yet the reason is too !
If somebody has only one arm, we say: "half arm".... "half reason (it mean is stupid)". In hungarian the "crafty","schrewd" or "artful" is "brainbored", because the old magyars can to do the skull-leaking, but the magyars didn't deformated yourself's skull for peaked as the huns. The hungarian language is symbolic, picture-plastic and metaphisic language with many pre- and postpositions. And yet I did not say about researching of Univ Sorbonne for the old etimons: where demonstrated the magyar language has 68 % old etimons. And more..and more.. etc...
But finally i like call Yours attention to book of the Carl Gustav Jung: Seele und Erde (Spirit and Earth).

http://users.cwnet.com/millenia/magynam.htm
Look around in Google with "sumerians+magyars" or "hungarian runic" and etc. phrases for more informations.

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Re: Sumer-magyar

Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2004-12-31, 17:05

The Stone Age's language is (at the least) in Europe the proto-Magyar and its runics.

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Postby Kubi » 2005-01-03, 12:15

The glyphs that have been found of the Vinca culture are too scarce to allow a judgment about the language they were written in. The hypothesis that Hungarian was this language is rather couragious, especially if you consider that the center of those findings are near today's Belgrad, not Budapest :wink:. And nothing older that can definitely be classified as writing symbols has yet been found.
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Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2005-01-03, 18:11

(The hungarian-magyar words are in big letters!)

Situation:

In the historical-Age in the Carpathian-Basin lived Skythians, Celtic:Sicambrians (some said These were the Gallics) before the Roman-Empire, and after Romans the Huns, after Avars (but about them are not informations in the oriental histories) and later the Magyars.
The Carpathian-Basin was in every times very important place for a longer or shorter life. Now, in the Univs teach that in today hungary (93 000 km2) was intered cc. 200 million people (since VÉRTESSZÖLÖS /cc. 2 million years/. Whether how many was burned to ashes?


Facts , inductions and conclusions:

1. Belgrad or Budapest: no matter in that Age. Both fall under the Carpathian-Basin. (Belgrad = Belo-grad = White-castle, ---as in Hungary: VISEGRÁD = High-castle--- but Belgrad has older name in hungarian: NÁNDORFEHÉRVÁR , War of the NÁNDORFEHÉRVÁR, The noon-church-bellring is for it's memorial. Maybe, Belgrad and Budapest was lived in everytimes, but the centers were near areas of the rich in ore (silver, gold, iron etc. : Transylvania, and near the clod-mountans)

2. The humangenetic research.
a. The EU19 haplotype is an oldest gm. in Europe.
magyars = 60%, Polish = 56,4%, Ukrains=54%, Macedons=35%, Croatians=29,3%, Czech&Slovaks=26,7%.

b. The ab3st haplotype is a mongoloid gm.

In Europe ionly the magyars have it: (average) 8,9 %, West-Hungary: 10,3%

3. Körös culture older, than Vinca culture.

4. If the Magyars never hadn't other language, than how can to account the situation?

5. The EU19 haplotype may connect to the Kurgan-type culture.

6. 6500 y. old TATARLAKA findings (Now it is in Germany for research) with MAGYAR RUNES.
Nikolai Vlassa (discoverer) said: it can connected to the Vinca culture.

7. TATARLAKA findings maybe attach to Sumerians.

I said above about the sacral-centre. It is one of the PILIS-mountains, DOBOGÓ-KŐ with ESZTERGOM (since A.D. 990 here is the apostolics-catholics-seat.)
ESZTERGOM = ISTAR-GAM ( ISTAR = DUNA/DANUBE river) GAM = Bend/Curve (as sumerian).
Image

And finally, a little hungarian language-logic.
KAR, KÁR, KER, KÉR, KIR, KÖR, KŐR, KUR, KÚR, KÜR, KŰR, GUB, GUM, GUR etc...


All atach to CIRCLE-idea.
KAR = arm
KARIKA = ring
KARIMA = edge / border
KARÓ = stake / post / stick
KÁRPÁTOK = Carpathians (look the geog. map !)
KÖR = circle
KOR = age (because in Archaical life the Age was circle !!)
KER = cc. circle ÉK = wedge, KERÉK = wheel
KEREK = round ( KER + plural sign = eK = KEREK)
etc.
GUB = GUBA = GUBÓ =cocoon/poppy-head
GUMÓ = tuber/ (GYÖKÉR) root (but see: GYÖ-KÉR !!!)
GUR = ( !!! K ----= G )
GURÍT = roll
GURIGA = cc. double-runner
GÖRBE = curved (= synonime KÖRBE)
GÖRCS = knot / spasm / cramp / colic ( it means = cc. gather round )

And so on ......

Guest

Postby Guest » 2005-01-03, 23:52

Supplement:

nJohn West-Hungary wrote:(The hungarian-magyar words are in big letters!)



KÖR = circle
KOR = age (because in Archaical life the Age was circle !!)

And so on ......


and
KÖRBE = into the circle
KORBA = to Age

bet never KÖRBA and KORBE, because must will the tone-setting , but isn't problem: the KÖR and KOR determine the meaning, so maybe speak in this way, but very grotesque.

A few example for the ETRUSC-MAGYAR relation:

Felsina = FELSŐ = Upper/Superior
Bolsena/Volsenii = BELSŐ = Inner/Inside
Alium = ALSÓ = Lower/Under
Tez , Tezi = TESZ = do
Mena = MENNI = to go
Itun = EDÉNY = vessel
Hud = HAT = six
Ave = ÉV = year
Alpa = ALAP = base/basis
Falas = FALÁS / FALNI = devouring / to devour
Carsi = KORSÓ = jug
Tanna = TANÍT = teach
Vacil = BESZÉL = speak ( but VACILÁL today use we, = hezitate )
Áme = ÁLLJ MEG ! = Stop ! ( but dialect: Á-MEG ! )
Naper = NAPPAL / NAP = day / by day
Cupa = KUPA = cup / goblet ( cup is older by magyars than latins, because the magyars were drink from cups on the steppens).

http://digilander.libero.it/rivistalett ... iosita.htm


And it is some sumerian example:

Id = ÜGY = FOLYÓ = river

FEKETE ÜGY = Black river

but IDÜLT = chronic (continuously sickly person )
IDŐ = time
IDŐS = aged / old
IDOMUL = adjust etc.

etc....

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Postby nJohn West-Hungary » 2005-01-04, 6:31

(I was Anonymous, only not logged in.)

Anonymous wrote:
(And it is some sumerian example:

Id = ÜGY = FOLYÓ = river

FEKETE ÜGY = Black river

but IDÜLT = chronic (continuously sickly person )
IDŐ = time
IDŐS = aged / old
IDOMUL = adjust etc.

etc....


IDŐS = aged/old ( very old river) = ÜGYES = clever / skilful (because he/she has experience)

KARIKA = little ring, but IKA = its means is "reduced" (IKRA = roe / calf )
Last edited by nJohn West-Hungary on 2005-01-04, 13:32, edited 3 times in total.


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