ἑλληνὶς γλῶττα - ancient Greek

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ἑλληνὶς γλῶττα - ancient Greek

Postby ego » 2006-09-13, 13:06

Wellcome all, I created this thread for everyone interested in learning or discussing ancient Greek, mycenaean, homeric, classical or koine. I hope there will be people interested. I have never studied ancient Greek seriously except for one week some months ago but I really mean to start again now. I can understand most of what I read already (especially in Koine). Studying ancient Greek in Greece can be weird at times.. unis and schools here teach you how to read and translate texts but I always wanted to learn how to speak ancient Greek the way I have learnt how to speak English for example. Some friends who study Greek litterature tell me this is impossible because "we don't know how ancient Greeks really used to talk" or because "ancient Greek unlike Latin had several distinct dialects and the one used in literature is not the same as the one used in speech". I don't know if these are true but I have read Asterix in ancient Greek, so I guess that since some people can translate TO ancient Greek, why not me too? :? Perhaps people who have studied it can answer these questions. Anyway, enjoy your stay!

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Postby HerrFraeulein » 2006-09-13, 13:25

I've bought this book -> http://www.amazon.de/Griechische-Gramma ... &s=gateway
(don't let some of the negative reviews fool you, they're retarded: this is the definitive Greek grammar) a year ago, so I definitely need to get it going sometime.

By the way: you should definitely give Asterix in Latin a go too. Hilarious. :mrgreen:
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Postby Soassae » 2006-09-13, 13:41

Oh, I have a lot of material for ancient Greek. I have kept all the school material, including the grammar and an enormous Greek-Italian dictionary, as well as literature and texts. I had quite old-fashioned teachers, so they made us learn a lot of things by heart and I still can remember most paradigms of irregular verbs, as well as declention patterns. I even remember pieces of the Odyessea (in metric), but the largest part has already been forgotten....

If anything of this is useful, let me know.

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Postby ego » 2006-09-13, 14:20

pufi wrote:Oh, I have a lot of material for ancient Greek. I have kept all the school material, including the grammar and an enormous Greek-Italian dictionary, as well as literature and texts. I had quite old-fashioned teachers, so they made us learn a lot of things by heart and I still can remember most paradigms of irregular verbs, as well as declention patterns. I even remember pieces of the Odyessea (in metric), but the largest part has already been forgotten....

If anything of this is useful, let me know.


Yeah, the way ancient languages are taught enerves me. My parents have memorized thousands of pages of ancient texts, declension and conjugation tables, but they cannot produce speech in ancient Greek. They couldn't say "my name is X" in ancient Greek I think. Not because they don't really know the words but because they never thought of how to do it. I bought the school books of ancient Greek and I was really disappointed. At the vocabulary section they rather teach expressions than words, so I just dropped them. I will use "Teach Yourself ancient Greek", so far it is a great book.

HerrFraeulein wrote:By the way: you should definitely give Asterix in Latin a go too. Hilarious


I can guess. Asterix in ancient languages and in modern dialects is hilarious. But I don't speak any Latin :roll:

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Postby Luís » 2006-09-13, 14:56

I'm interested in Ancient Greek too, but I guess I'll have to learn the modern variety first :)

Most material you can find here is for Ancient Greek, since it's still a commonly taught subject in high-school/university.

About the teaching methods, I remember having seen a 10th grade Latin school book whose main theme were the adventures of a 20th century boy in Ancient Rome - I suppose there should be some degree of colloquial Latin involved there. No idea about Greek :(
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Postby allemaalmeezinge » 2006-09-13, 16:13

Ego: At the unilang chat, there's a German guy: Nighmi. He studies both Latin and Ancient Greek, if you'd tell him about an Ancient Greek forum maybe he would register here, too.

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Postby ego » 2006-09-13, 19:36

yabba wrote:Ego: At the unilang chat, there's a German guy: Nighmi. He studies both Latin and Ancient Greek, if you'd tell him about an Ancient Greek forum maybe he would register here, too.


Sure. I will as soon as I find him

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Postby Dminor » 2006-09-13, 20:33

I'm here to help as well. :wave: I could help with the "normal stuff" of ancient Greek, and probably I'm going to follow a course of Mycenaean at university some time of this year as well, so maybe I could pass on some knowledge of that afterwards, too. I can't wait until those lessons start :yum:
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Re: ἑλληνὶς γλῶττα - ancient Greek

Postby Dimakos » 2006-09-13, 20:38

ego wrote:Wellcome all, I created this thread for everyone interested in learning or discussing ancient Greek


Many, many congrats on this initiative, from a fellow Greek.

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Postby ego » 2006-09-13, 20:38

Dminor wrote:I'm here to help as well. :wave: I could help with the "normal stuff" of ancient Greek, and probably I'm going to follow a course of Mycenaean at university some time of this year as well, so maybe I could pass on some knowledge of that afterwards, too. I can't wait until those lessons start :yum:


Finally :burning: . I just want to have someone to ask someone when we have questions.

I'm going to follow a course of Mycenaean at university some time of this year


I hate you :cry: . I really do.. Mycenaean fascinates me, I wish I could learn it. Of course I know this is impossible since we know so few things about it.. In Homer's language one can find archaic elements as far as I know, and archaic elements in Homer means Mycenaean I guess. I have read smth about ablative in -φι and locative in -οι, but I guess not all declension patterns for these cases are known today, right?

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Postby Dminor » 2006-09-13, 21:02

ego wrote:I hate you :cry: . I really do..

I'm sorry. :P I'll pass on as much as you want to know, so you can hate yourself a little as well :waytogo:

In Homer's language one can find archaic elements as far as I know, and archaic elements in Homer means Mycenaean I guess. I have read smth about ablative in -φι and locative in -οι, but I guess not all declension patterns for these cases are known today, right?


No, all we have is a bunch of clay tablets used to describe the palace economy. :para: They do reveal something of course, but definitely not everything. I don't know exactly how detailed our knowledge of it is though (I stil got to follow that course of course). But it is right that the most ancient forms in Homer are relicts of Mycenaean. The most spectacular example of this I can remember, is a formula of his once whose metre really sucked, but actually turned out really nice in reconstructed Mycenaean. :D I should look that verse up 8)
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Postby Dminor » 2006-09-13, 22:29

Oh, that doesn't really show that some parts of Homer are intact Mycenaean of course. :P But it does give us a clue for Homers work being a product of a tradition that goes back to Mycenaean times, including parts of the language (left intact or not :wink:).
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Postby HerrFraeulein » 2006-09-13, 22:34

I hate you too, Mineur. :finger:
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Postby Dminor » 2006-09-13, 22:37

Well, I luuuv you both :woohoo:
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Postby ego » 2006-09-14, 9:16

I just realized that I have used the Attic -ττ- than the panhellenic -σσ- in γλῶττα and perhaps I shouldn't since this thread is supposed to deal with all dialects. Perhaps I can correct it.. if I find out how :? .

Dminor I was wondering about the way you used the ἡγεῖσθαι in your sentence: Ἐνόμιζον δέ σέ γε καίπερ ἑλληνικόν ὄντα αὐτήν τήν γλῶτταν καί θειοτάτην ἡγεῖσθαι;
I know it means "to lead, to be in charge", right? At least this is the meaning it has in modern Greek. But from your sentence I realize it has one more meaning. Can you explain please?

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Postby Dminor » 2006-09-14, 13:16

Well, I think Attic is read the most (and considered the "purest" :P) so I guess it doesn't really matter.

About ἡγεῖσθαι: indeed its first meaning is "to lead", but it also means "to have the opinion (that something is something)", "to consider (something something)" (so like the modern "θεωρώ"). So "Ἐνόμιζον σέ τήν γλῶτταν θειοτάτην ἡγεῖσθαι": I thought you considered the language most divine. It's quite similar to the Latin use of "duco", which has both of these meanings as well.
काव्यशास्त्रविनोदेन कालो गच्छति धीमताम् । व्यसनेन च मूर्खाणां निद्रया कलहेन वा

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Postby ego » 2006-09-14, 15:51

I was wondering.. how is "hi", "bye" or "welcome" in colloquial ancient Greek? These words are never taught

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-09-14, 16:12

Hmm. I thought that there were not many differences between Ancient Greek and Modern Greek, just a few different words. But i learned that Greek people can not understand even a word. :shock: The alphabet is the same, as i see at least :P , so what is it so special about Ancient Greek? I mean what kind of hard features has it got? Why is it harder than Modern Greek?
Thank you.

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Postby ego » 2006-09-14, 16:28

Alcadras wrote:Hmm. I thought that there were not many differences between Ancient Greek and Modern Greek, just a few different words. But i learned that Greek people can not understand even a word. :shock: The alphabet is the same, as i see at least :P , so what is it so special about Ancient Greek? I mean what kind of hard features has it got? Why is it harder than Modern Greek?
Thank you.


:roll:

75% of the vocabulary is common, so how cannot Greeks "understand a word"? Anyway, this discussion is too abstract. You should study both languages and judge for yourself

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-09-14, 16:32

That's what i heard, sorry and i said "as i know" :wink:
Now, i'm asking again, in which ways is ancient greek harder than modern greek? Do not tell me that i should learn. I just wonder.


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