Other Creoles

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Sisyphe
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Other Creoles

Postby Sisyphe » 2008-02-09, 4:07

Image

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At first glance, these two pictures might appear to be from the same place, but these two pictures were taken approximately 3 000 miles (5 000 km or something like that, I think... :oops:) apart. The first image is from Réunion and the second, from Martinique. Not only do Martinique and Réunion have a relatively similar appearence, but the speech of both of these peoples is surprisingly similar.

As most of you know, Haitian Creole is not the only French-based Creole in existence. There are several more, and the more common ones are highly intelligible with Haitian Creole.

This thread will seek to answer this question:
-How are the various French-based Creoles different from each other?

The first issue is that of vocabulary:

The greatest difference between the Creoles is vocabulary. Although the French and African origins are shared by most the Creoles, there are significant borrowings from different languages in each creole. For example, while Haitian and Antillean Creole contain Arawak words that cannot be found in other Creoles, Réunionnais Creole has words from Tamil, Malagasy and Portuguese that a Haitian, Martiniquais, etc. would not be familiar with at all, and would not be likely to be able to guess the meaning of. There are also significant differences even in words from French. This has to do with the way that the African slaves heard and reproduced French sounds and words. For example, the word for never in French is "jamais". In Haiti, most speakers say "janm", while many from the Antilles say "jamin". As an additional example, the word for me, which is "moi" in French is pronounced "mo" in African Creoles but "mwen" in the Caribbean. Also, the Creoles differ in the African languages from which they borrowed words. This affects grammar, which is the next subject that will be covered....


See this link for a comparison of differences in vocabulary in Haiti, Martinique, Guadeloupe and French Guyana.

In addition to discussing grammar, I will post about specific Creoles in the future, such as the Antillean Creoles and Louisiana Creole. If you have any other ideas, or things you want to see here, please post and tell me. :)
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Postby ego » 2008-02-09, 23:35

I'd say that all Creoles are surprisingly similar, even those that are based on different colonial languages and developped in different areas, like Kreyol ayisyen and Tok Pisin or Caboverdeano. It seems that there's a common logic on the way that the mother languages are simplified in order to produce the various creoles

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Postby Sisyphe » 2008-02-10, 1:37

I'd agree that there seems to be some "bare bones" core to language...You know, of course, though, that I was more referring to mutual intelligibility, as far as 'similarity' is concerned on this thread.
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Postby ego » 2008-02-10, 19:40

Any sources about Creoles?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2008-02-10, 20:45

Assimil has books to learn various French-based creoles - I don't have them myself, though, so I can't vouch for how good they are.
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Re: Other Creoles

Postby atalarikt » 2018-01-17, 8:05

Malay-based creoles should be talked about more in the sub-forum.
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
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Re: Other Creoles

Postby Salajane » 2018-02-03, 20:42

Are there resources for Guyanese Creole, Sranan Tongo, French Guianan Creole and Australian Kriol on the internet?
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Re: Other Creoles

Postby atalarikt » 2018-02-04, 3:19

Irusia wrote:Are there resources for Guyanese Creole, Sranan Tongo, French Guianan Creole and Australian Kriol on the internet?

A presentation on Guyanese Creole by Jan Florian Bender (direct PDF link)
Guyanese proverbs
Sranan Tongo thread
Australian Kriol thread (last post January 24 2018)

Unfortunately, I can't find some French Guianan Creole resources. Perhaps others can help us in this case.
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
Forever indebted to Robert A. Blust for his contributions to Austronesian linguistics

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Re: Other Creoles

Postby Salajane » 2018-02-04, 10:16

Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
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Re: Other Creoles

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-03-20, 5:37

This is an overview of Guianan Creole. There's more information readily available in French (on Wikipedia, for example. There's some on the English Wikipedia, too, but not nearly as much).

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Re: Other Creoles

Postby atalarikt » 2018-03-23, 7:46

Tansi (also called Tangsi) is a Malay-based creole that arose from the speech of the coal miners in Sawahlunto, West Sumatra, Indonesia, during the Dutch colonial era. The languages contributing to its vocabulary include Javanese, Minangkabau, Batak, Balinese, Bugis, Dutch and Chinese. While its first documentation by the Dutch colonial government dates from as early as the late 19th century, it was not until recently (around 2010) when Indonesian researchers documented the creole further.
A dictionary has been published in 2010, but I'm not sure if somebody still sells it or not. I guess it's only printed in a limited number.

A few pronouns in Tangsi and their etymology
(Kakak laki-laki: older male
Kakak perempuan: older female
Kamu/kau: you)
Image
(image from this Indonesian forum thread)
Despite this list, only mas, mbak, ke, (of Javanese origin) and ni (of Minangkabau origin) are prominently used nowadays.

Examples of Tangsi language
  • ”Ni Tis, mo mana ke ?” (Ni Tis, where are you going?)
    ”Mo belanja.” (Shopping.)
    ”Mana?” (Where (to)?)
    ”Kede (kade), mo titip apa ke?” ((To the) store, what would you like to buy?)
    ”Ndak (nda), aku sangka (sanka) mo pigi pasar, aku mo titip bayam.” (Nothing, I thought you were going to the traditional market, I'd like to buy some spinach.)
  • Di mana ke ? (Where are you?)
  • Udah ke kabek-in anjing ke? (Have you chained your dog?)
  • Ke mana aja ke, kok lama gak ketok-ketok? (Where have you been, why haven't you appeared for a long time?)
  • Udah tak kek-i tapi dia tak mau terima. (I've given (it to) him/her/them but he/she/they didn't want to accept it.)
  • Koati ke lah (Whatever as you please)


Spoken Tangsi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6wSRb7r67o

A song in Tangsi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKyzHF1cJg
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
Forever indebted to Robert A. Blust for his contributions to Austronesian linguistics


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