Standardized spellings?

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Standardized spellings?

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-31, 19:55

Check out this link:

http://www.lee.k12.fl.us/dept/spprog/es ... elling.pdf

How successful do you think that a standardized system of spelling would be in Haïti and in the Diaspora?
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

M@!
Posts: 1911
Joined: 2005-04-17, 12:02
Gender: female
Location: ...

Postby M@! » 2006-08-01, 19:22

The book that Alcadras suggested in the resources thread, treated hat point too in its introduction.

Haitian Creole, being basically a spoken language, may need to have a 'one and only one' way of spelling. As we were learning this language, and looking for some vocabulary, we got through many varieties, that I personally ended writing in a new way. :roll:

There is a certain organization working on that, I read, but till when?

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-08-02, 18:31

Mariam wrote:The book that Alcadras suggested in the resources thread, treated hat point too in its introduction.

Haitian Creole, being basically a spoken language, may need to have a 'one and only one' way of spelling. As we were learning this language, and looking for some vocabulary, we got through many varieties, that I personally ended writing in a new way. :roll:

There is a certain organization working on that, I read, but till when?


No matter of work will mean anything until education in Haïti makes a major change - this also goes for the Diaspora. First of all, it is necessary that more have the opportunity to actually be schooled and to learn to read and write. Also, education must be done in Haïtian Créole instead of French - Haïti is the world's first black republic; however the imperialist effects of French colonialization - inculding the stigma against Haïtian Créole - still remain. Finally, I do not see how bilingual education in the major cities of the Diaspora would not help. Miami, New York and Boston already have some programs for Haïtian Créole which I think is absolutely wonderful, but many would benefit from more in-depth programs. This also extends to the large diaspora in Montréal where education is polarized - one is either educated in French or English... :roll: So any language reform would meet with only limited success at this time... :(
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

User avatar
Alcadras
Posts: 5508
Joined: 2005-04-16, 11:45
Real Name: Mirac Özdağ
Gender: male
Location: Ankara
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Postby Alcadras » 2006-08-02, 18:36

Aren't there schools in Haiti for people like you and the others that teach how to read and write? :roll:

Haiti'de senin gibi okuma ve yazmayı öğreten okullar yok mu?

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-08-02, 18:55

Alcadras wrote:Aren't there schools in Haiti for people like you and the others that teach how to read and write? :roll:

Haiti'de senin gibi okuma ve yazmayı öğreten okullar yok mu?


Education in Haïtian schools is only done in French.
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

User avatar
Alcadras
Posts: 5508
Joined: 2005-04-16, 11:45
Real Name: Mirac Özdağ
Gender: male
Location: Ankara
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Postby Alcadras » 2006-08-02, 19:01

But why,i thought the Haitian people don't like anything related about French. :roll: So,why is the education being in French?

Ama neden,Haitili insanların Fransızca ile ilgili olan hiç bir şeyi sevmeyeceğini düşünmüştüm. :roll: O zaman neden eğitim Fransızca yapılıyor?

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-08-02, 19:08

Alcadras wrote:But why,i thought the Haitian people don't like anything related about French. :roll: So,why is the education being in French?

Ama neden,Haitili insanların Fransızca ile ilgili olan hiç bir şeyi sevmeyeceğini düşünmüştüm. :roll: O zaman neden eğitim Fransızca yapılıyor?


The vast majority of Haïtians do not like the french effect on Haïti in the past and in the present. However, the upper class that controls the schooling does not feel this way. They realize that if they can split Haïtians based on education - who speaks French and who cannot - then they can remain in power and they can remain rich and keep all of the Créolphones below them, impoverished and dejected. It is a very corrupt system - but the ones who cAN do something to change it do ont for thesake of their own prestige and comfort.
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-08-03, 22:30

Alcadras wrote:But why,i thought the Haitian people don't like anything related about French. :roll: So,why is the education being in French?

Ama neden,Haitili insanların Fransızca ile ilgili olan hiç bir şeyi sevmeyeceğini düşünmüştüm. :roll: O zaman neden eğitim Fransızca yapılıyor?


I asked my mother for her input on this, and she said that the few poor Haïtians who are able to go to school see the French language as a way to rise out of their poverty. They care little about being educated in KA if they will rise out of their poverty. She also told me that teachers are unwilling to teach in KA because it is somewhat viewed as a lower language - not meant to come out of a teacher's mouth. So as you can see, there are many reasons why literacy in Haïti and the Diaspora will not have an opportunity to change any time soon...
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

M@!
Posts: 1911
Joined: 2005-04-17, 12:02
Gender: female
Location: ...

Postby M@! » 2006-08-04, 19:39

Reading these statistics, I can imagine how alarming the situation is.

• 10% of the child population in Haiti will die before the age of 4.
• 7% (300,000) of the children in Haiti are enslaved. They are as young as 3 years old. They often suffer sexual, emotional, physical abuse and possibly death.
• 45% of the Haitian population is illiterate.
• 70% of the population lives below poverty level.
• 30% of the Haitian population is either ill and or underweight.

User avatar
Alcadras
Posts: 5508
Joined: 2005-04-16, 11:45
Real Name: Mirac Özdağ
Gender: male
Location: Ankara
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Postby Alcadras » 2006-08-04, 19:40

:cry:
What can i say?
(Ne diyebilirim?)

M@!
Posts: 1911
Joined: 2005-04-17, 12:02
Gender: female
Location: ...

Postby M@! » 2006-08-04, 19:47

Marcus, what's your contribution to the efforts of standarizing Creole spelling? Won't you make of it your second mission in life? 8)

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-08-04, 22:24

Mariam wrote: What's your contribution to the efforts of standarizing Creole spelling? Won't you make of it your second mission in life? 8)


As you can see, learning how to write our language, and moreover standardizing it is the least of our worries. This is only the tip of the iceberg and much more needs to be done to solve the real problems. As I've told you before, I would not be taken seriously in Haïti - I would just be someone who is trying to scam them or trick them in their minds - even if I had the purest of intentions.
Last edited by Sisyphe on 2006-09-21, 23:10, edited 1 time in total.
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

M@!
Posts: 1911
Joined: 2005-04-17, 12:02
Gender: female
Location: ...

Postby M@! » 2006-08-22, 10:29

You're not telling us that spelling is not important, are you?
Yes, you have greated problems, but still, spelling must be on the Haitian to-do list. Or not?

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-08-22, 15:12

Mariam wrote:You're not telling us that spelling is not important, are you?
Yes, you have greated problems, but still, spelling must be on the Haitian to-do list. Or not?


It would be like me learning the numerals that you use in Arabic and expecting others to learn them, use them and understand them - not going to happen. Writing systems in Haïti are just not going to catch on right now...
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

hbheather
Posts: 6
Joined: 2005-12-10, 14:33
Real Name: Heather Lynn
Gender: female
Location: US
Country: US United States (United States)

Interesting

Postby hbheather » 2006-10-09, 15:20

Wow, this is all very interesting. I'm glad I read this. :)

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Interesting

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-10-09, 19:13

hbheather wrote:Wow, this is all very interesting. I'm glad I read this. :)


Welcome to the Haïtian Créole forum Heather! :D
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

User avatar
Passe-Cale
Posts: 1158
Joined: 2005-10-13, 1:05
Real Name: Pascal Martel
Gender: male
Location: Montréal
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Postby Passe-Cale » 2006-10-22, 14:38

J'ai emprunté à la bibliothèque le livre "Diksyonè sinonim lang ayisyen"
Image

J'ai scanné pour vous quelques pages où est entre autre proposé une orthographe standard.

Pages numérisées :
Première image
Deuxième image
Troisième image

Très intéressant ce livre! :D
ISBN : 2-9806592-2-3

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2006-10-22, 17:06

Mèsi pou kontribisyon bèl anpil ou Passe-Cale! :waytogo:

M janm wè kreyol soutenu la! :shock: Mezanmi! Se yon ti kras dificil pou li...M dwè li aotvwa pou tout komprann.

Merci bien pour cette belle contribution Passe-Cale! :waytogo:

Je n'ai jamais vu le créole soutenu auparavant! :shock: C'est tellement difficile à lire pour moi...Il me faut le lire à voix haute pour tout comprendre...
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

Jofi-a
Posts: 25
Joined: 2007-01-08, 20:41
Real Name: GComber
Gender: male
Location: US
Country: US United States (United States)

Postby Jofi-a » 2007-01-08, 21:20

Bonswa tout moun, koumon ou ye? M' rele Jofi-a isit. M' kon te li fowanm-la men pa poste. M' panse li yon nesesite ekri pawol yo nan estanda fom. Kreyol se yon lang nouvo ak pi chanjeman. Fom-la ki se ta ekri selman 50 ane pase se pa menm fom jodi-a. Li se ta pa menm nan 50 ane si tout moun pa ekri pawol nou nan estanda fom kounye-a. Gouvènman Ayitian-an gen yon estanda fom ki m' renmen we isit.
Orevwa...

User avatar
Sisyphe
Posts: 2891
Joined: 2006-05-24, 20:29
Location: Los Angeles
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Postby Sisyphe » 2007-01-09, 6:43

Jofi-a wrote:Bonswa tout moun, <koumon> (kouman) ou ye? M' rele Jofi-a isit. M' <kon> (Ou pa ka itilize 'kon' ak 'te' konsa. :? - ou dwè itilize oubyen kon, oubyen te ; m ta pito itilize 'fèk' isit nan fèt...) li <fowanm> (fowanm sa a) men m pa te poste isit. M' panse <li> (yo pou ekri <pawol> mo - nou pa te di pawol yo nan <estanda> (fom etanda (m pa konn otograf egzak pou ekri sa...)) Kreyol se yon lang nouvo <ak> (m pa komprann...)Fom la ki <se> (kon fèt ekri selman 50 ane <pase> avan yo se pa menm fom de jodi-a. <Li> Sa ta pa menm <nan> (bo - nan se pou dekri kote yo) 50 ane yo si tout moun pa ekri <pawol> mo yo nou nan fom estanda kounye-a. ou te di 'pawol nou - eske ou ayisyen ye? ;-) Gouvènman <Ayitian> ayisyen nan gen yon fom estanda ki m ta renmen wè isit.
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image


Return to “Creoles and Pidgins”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest