Haitian Creole?

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Haitian Creole?

Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 19:21

Ne serait-il pas un dialecte français?
I mean, the similarities between the two is so striking, one could say Creole is only speaking French with an accent. :?

No offense, but this is only my impression from my first readings about the language.

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 19:48

Yes,it was the same i thought at first.But it attracts me more than French.Btw,did you decide to learn it?

Evet,ilk önce ben de aynısını düşündüm.Ama beni Fransızca'dan daha çok etkiliyor.Bu arada,öğrenmeye mi karar verdin?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 20:15

Not at all Mariam. And if someone else would have suggested this other than you, I would indeed be extremely upset. :twisted:
First of all, I must say that French speakers cannot readily understand Haïtian Créole. You might find it easy to read, but if you listen to Haïtian Créole, you would be completely puzzled, I assure you. Radio canada has some good programs in Haïtian Créole if you want to see for yourself. :wink:
Next I must say that the pronunciation rules are consistently regular (unlike French). The system of verb constructions in Haïtian Créole is also extremely different from French - I dare say that a native speaker would have great difficulty, if they could even manage at all, to figure out when to use each different verb particle - none of which are present in French. Finally, the vocabulary has been heavily influenced by languages from Africa such as Ewe and Fon that are spoken in Central Africa.
Let me give you a classic example that is used to distinguish between languages often:

Tout moun fèt lib, egal ego pou diyite kou wè dwa. Nou gen la rezon ak la konsyans epi nou fèt pou nou aji youn ak yon lespri fwatènite.

Tous les êtres humains naissent libres et égaux en dignité et en droits. Ils sont doues de raison et de conscience et doivent agir les uns envers les autres dans un esprit de fraternité.

Haïtian Créole is a great symbol of pride for the Haïtian people. It is, for us, a symbol of defiance of colonialism and imperialism - no offense to all of you white people. :lol: It is also one of the strongest connections that we have to our African heritage.

One final comment:
Most Haïtians cannot speak French at all. There is clearly a greater matter than just accent if this is the case, don't you think?
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 20:22

So,you say Haitian Creole is harder than French?
But ortography fascinates me.

Yani,Haiti dili Fransızca'dan zor mu diyorsun?
Ama yazı görüntüsü beni etkiliyor.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 20:36

Alcadras wrote:So,you say Haitian Creole is harder than French?
But ortography fascinates me.

Yani,Haiti dili Fransızca'dan zor mu diyorsun?
Ama yazı görüntüsü beni etkiliyor.


I don't think it is harder or easier - but it has different aspects of it that are difficult because it is, as I hope I have shown, a different language - not good French, not accented French, not a dialect of French, definitely not broken French - but a language in its own right.
The orthographe, as you mentioned, is significantly easier in Haïtian créole, for example.
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 20:40

By the way,are you originally Haitian?

Bu arada Haitili misin?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 20:44

Half Haïtian, yes.
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Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 20:52

Alcadras wrote:Yes,it was the same i thought at first.But it attracts me more than French.Btw,did you decide to learn it?

Yes! It'll be quite fun. :lol:

Marcus wrote:Not at all Mariam. And if someone else would have suggested this other than you, I would indeed be extremely upset. :twisted:

Oooops! :oops:

Marcus wrote:Radio canada has some good programs in Haïtian Créole if you want to see for yourself. :wink:

Lead me to that radio online, souple.

But still, why does it look strikingly similar to French? Even if some words order changes, the whole sentence remains nearly the same.
Of course there'd be influences from other languages, but French got the biggest part in that.


Marcus wrote:Tout moun fèt lib, egal ego pou diyite kou wè dwa. Nou gen la rezon ak la konsyans epi nou fèt pou nou aji youn ak yon lespri fwatènite.

I understood up to 60% of this sentence. :shock:

Marcus wrote:One final comment:
Most Haïtians cannot speak French at all. There is clearly a greater matter than just accent if this is the case, don't you think?

I need to learn more Créole to judge it, I only told you about my first impression.
But if Haitian people learn French, it'll be just easy for them. Or not?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 21:14

Mariam wrote:
Alcadras wrote:Yes,it was the same i thought at first.But it attracts me more than French.Btw,did you decide to learn it?

Yes! It'll be quite fun. :lol:

Marcus wrote:Not at all Mariam. And if someone else would have suggested this other than you, I would indeed be extremely upset. :twisted:

Oooops! :oops:

Marcus wrote:Radio canada has some good programs in Haïtian Créole if you want to see for yourself. :wink:

Lead me to that radio online, souple.

But still, why does it look strikingly similar to French? Even if some words order changes, the whole sentence remains nearly the same.
Of course there'd be influences from other languages, but French got the biggest part in that.


Marcus wrote:Tout moun fèt lib, egal ego pou diyite kou wè dwa. Nou gen la rezon ak la konsyans epi nou fèt pou nou aji youn ak yon lespri fwatènite.

I understood up to 60% of this sentence. :shock:

Marcus wrote:One final comment:
Most Haïtians cannot speak French at all. There is clearly a greater matter than just accent if this is the case, don't you think?

I need to learn more Créole to judge it, I only told you about my first impression.
But if Haitian people learn French, it'll be just easy for them. Or not?



Here is a documentary done a few years ago by Radio Canada about Haïti and the resilient Haïtian people. It is done in Haïtian Créole, French and English for you to compare. It is also to note that the media is formal - of course the language is more different in most everyday interactions. Also, when the reporters speak in the Créole version , they are speaking French - just so you don't think that French and Créole sound even closer than you already think. :wink:
http://www.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/re ... ti-creole/

I wouldn't say that French holds the greatest influence over Créole, but I would say that the other influences are more subtle - they are difficult to see when one is learning the language on a basic level. It is also normal that you are able to read much of the text - but that is not spoken Haïtian créole - I assure that you would understand considerably less.
I don't know how difficult it is for Haïtians to learn French - I only know that most don't. I have relatives that do not speak French, as I had mentioned. When I ask them why, the usually just shrug the question off. I think that they see it as something white - as I said, a symbol of imperialism that they refuse to submit to.
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 21:18

I think it sounds fascinating than French to my ears,similar with each others ;not much.How many people speak Haitian Creole?

Bence kulağa Fransızca'dan daha güzel geliyor,birbirleriyle benzerler;çok değil.Ne kadar insan Haitice konuşuyor?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 21:42

That is really hard to say - considering that Haïti has been a nation of emmigrants...I'm sure there is no definite estimate. There are probably 9 million speakers, including those that live in the Diaspora as myself.
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Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 21:46

Okay Marcus. Remember that I am here to learn. :--)

The documentary of your link has been loading for quite a while now. :?

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Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 21:48

The title of the documentary read "Haiti: Yon peyi pa janm mouri". Does that mean "Haiti: a country that never dies"?

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 21:49

Mariam wrote:Okay Marcus. Remember that I am here to learn. :--)

The documentary of your link has been loading for quite a while now. :?


It is worth it, I assure you. It talks a lot about haïtian culture, the political and economic situation as well as interviews with people in the Diaspora.
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 21:50

Mariam wrote:[color=brown]Okay Marcus. Remember that I am here to learn. :--)

[color]

Me,too :P
It is interesting that articles are after nouns :roll:

Ben de :P
Artikellerin isimlerden sonra olması ilginç :roll:

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Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 21:55

Alcadras, you indeed have problems with quotes. :lol:
Did you watch the documentary? Have you started learning Créole too?

I am still waiting Marcus, I hope it gets to load before I go to sleep. :roll:
How long did it take for you? How long does the documentary last?

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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 21:58

Yes i have,and it's because of your brown colour tags :twisted:
Yep,i watched it and understand nothing.
And yes,i started learning Haitian.I hope we help each others :wink:

Evet var,ve senin kahverengi renk tagların yüzünden. :evil:
Evet,izledim ve hiç bir şey anlamadım.
Ve evet,Haitice öğrenmeye başladım.Umarım birbirimize yardım ederiz :wink:

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Postby M@! » 2006-07-27, 22:05

Alcadras wrote:Yes i have,and it's because of your brown colour tags :twisted:

No, it's because you don't pay attention to the tags. The ending ones always have /. :lol:

Alcadras wrote:And yes,i started learning Haitian.I hope we help each others :wink:

Since when? And how do you learn it? I started yesterday. :lol:
It's a great idea to help each other. If there are many other interested persons around, we can arrange some virtual classes to exchange our knowledge about the language, even without a native. :twisted:
I am open to any suggestions.

Wow! This is a quiet corner to post in. I like it.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 22:07

Mariam wrote:The title of the documentary read "Haiti: Yon peyi pa janm mouri". Does that mean "Haiti: a country that never dies"?


Haïti: A country never dies
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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-07-27, 22:09

Alcadras wrote:
Mariam wrote:[color=brown]Okay Marcus. Remember that I am here to learn. :--)

[color]

Me,too :P
It is interesting that articles are after nouns :roll:

Ben de :P
Artikellerin isimlerden sonra olması ilginç :roll:


Wow! I didn't even realize that - i jusr do it. Go figure...
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