Irish Study Group

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-01, 22:14

Oh, interesting! I didn't realize there were at least three people on this forum who mainly spoke Munster Irish...go raibh maith agat! :)
kevin wrote:I only didn't post my exercises because it would have been essentially the same as you already had posted, so there was probably little use in doing so.

Would you prefer if I posted them anyway?

Okay, in that case, maybe I can just keep doing what we did last time (EDIT: so you don't have to post everything if you don't want to, but you can if you do want to :)). I am learning something from all this after all even though I'm not that serious about learning Irish yet. :lol: (I once went through almost all of Colloquial Cambodian with much the same attitude (and no audio, as is typically the case for me). It wasn't as unhelpful as it might seem).

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby Antea » 2018-07-02, 3:34

vijayjohn wrote:But also, how is that going to work if only you, kevin, and I guess Antea are seriously studying it? :hmm: Are you and kevin still intending to work through the exercises or something?


I am really at the first step, that means, trying to get myself acquainted with the structures, basic vocabulary and grammar. But I obviously will need a lot of time to get to any real level. This is just like a first contact, and I don't know how far it will get me :hmm:

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 5:17

Well, I would say I am, too! But anyway, I just finished doing the exercises for Unit 2. :)
► Show Spoiler

EDIT: Now I just tried to correct my mistakes or dispute some of the discrepancies with the answer key. I didn't realize last week there was an answer key! Oops :P
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2018-07-02, 21:24, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby kevin » 2018-07-02, 8:46

vijayjohn wrote:Oh, interesting! I didn't realize there were at least three people on this forum who mainly spoke Munster Irish...go raibh maith agat! :)

Standard with a Munster pronunciation is different from proper Munster dialect, though. I think I would understand Ciarán fairly easily (apart from lacking vocabulary, of course), but I would have trouble with the real dialect that linguoboy and Pól are learning.

vijayjohn wrote:EDIT: Now I just tried to correct my mistakes or dispute some of the discrepancies with the answer key. I didn't realize last week there was an answer key! Oops :P

Oh, there's an answer key? I didn't realise that either. :D

But if everyone uses the answer key, then what's left to discuss here? Only things that remain unclear in the book?

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 8:55

kevin wrote:Oh, there's an answer key? I didn't realise that either. :D

Yep! At the back of the book :)
But if everyone uses the answer key, then what's left to discuss here? Only things that remain unclear in the book?

Maybe why some of my answers were wrong :lol: (this may have been what you meant)

But we don't have to use the answer key. :) Although you could if you like. Like, I could write out my answers, then you could check them against the answer key. :D
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2018-07-02, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-02, 12:09

kevin wrote:Standard with a Munster pronunciation is different from proper Munster dialect, though. I think I would understand Ciarán fairly easily (apart from lacking vocabulary, of course), but I would have trouble with the real dialect that linguoboy and Pól are learning.

Indeed.

vijayjohn wrote:EDIT: Now I just tried to correct my mistakes or dispute some of the discrepancies with the answer key. I didn't realize last week there was an answer key! Oops :P

Oh, there's an answer key? I didn't realise that either. :D

But if everyone uses the answer key, then what's left to discuss here? Only things that remain unclear in the book?

It's Colloquial, of course there's an answer key. I thought it was common knowledge that Colloquial books have answer keys. TYI and Learning Irish also have answer keys.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 16:06

So does cé as tusa make any sense like the answer key suggests, or is it really just a typo for cé as thusa?

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-02, 16:20

vijayjohn wrote:So does cé as tusa make any sense like the answer key suggests, or is it really just a typo for cé as thusa?

I got no idea what crazy shit they say in Connemara; sensible people say "Cad as duit?"

Lom dáiríribh, it could perhaps be a dialectal variation where either /s/ blocks lenition of /t/ or as is being treated like an uninflected preposition. I don't know enough about Connacht varieties to say.
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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 20:02

Well, CI says:
When indicating where you are from, you can use the expression Is as _____ mé or just as _____ mé. As means “out of” or “from.” The question is Cé as thú? For emphasis, one can say Cé as thusa? or Cé as thú féin? (yourself). Recall that the f in féin is usually pronounced as h.

(And IIRC the f in féin is actually pronounced [f] in Munster and maybe Ulster).

So I thought it would seem to be a typo that's just in the Answer Key, but I wasn't sure whether I was missing something.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-02, 20:06

vijayjohn wrote:(And IIRC the f in féin is actually pronounced [f] in Munster and maybe Ulster).

For sure in Munster. (Ulster is bird language to me.)
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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 21:56

I love your descriptions of non-Munster varieties of Irish. :lol:

So let me get this straight: i triggers eclipsis, but while sa, san, sna, don, and ón also trigger eclipsis, they don't affect words that begin with t or d? Is this another dialect-specific feature as far as any of you are aware?

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-02, 22:00

Dentals.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby linguoboy » 2018-07-02, 22:10

vijayjohn wrote:So let me get this straight: i triggers eclipsis, but while sa, san, sna, don, and ón also trigger eclipsis, they don't affect words that begin with t or d? Is this another dialect-specific feature as far as any of you are aware?

Eclipsis after sa(n) is specific to Connacht. All other varieties have lenition (with the exception that f eclipses in Munster). Sna doesn't eclipse. You're probably confusing it with the genitive definite article na, which does.

AFAIK, eclipsis after don bzw. den is only found in Kerry. What varieties have eclipsis after ón?
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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-02, 22:13

Oh, eclipses, I was misreading your question as asking about lention, Vijay.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 22:25

linguoboy wrote:Eclipsis after sa(n) is specific to Connacht. All other varieties have lenition (with the exception that f eclipses in Munster).

Okay, thanks! :)
Sna doesn't eclipse. You're probably confusing it with the genitive definite article na, which does.

Wait, whaaaaaaaaa?

But look, they say Na Forbacha...and Na Cealla Beaga. If they eclipsed, shouldn't they be ?Na bhForbacha and ?Na gCealla Beaga? Or does the eclipsis not apply to placenames in this case or something? :hmm: EDIT: Or is it just Connacht being weird again?

EDIT2: OH never mind. That's a different na!
AFAIK, eclipsis after don bzw. den is only found in Kerry. What varieties have eclipsis after ón?

In this book, they have eclipsis after both of those. I think? :? Because one of the examples in the book is Tá sé cúpla ciliméadar ón mBóthar Buí, and their answer key for sentence 4 in Exercise 9 says Tá sé gar don mbunscoil. But then another one of their example sentences is Tá sé gar don chéibh nua, which is lenition, not eclipsis, right??

I'm so confused! You know what this means, right? I should've listened to księżycowy ages ago, burned this damn book in a fire, and joined the rest of y'all down in Munster. :lol:
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2018-07-02, 23:24, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-02, 22:29

You can still come over to our side, Vijay. :twisted:

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-02, 23:03

Actually, I did manage to figure out the na thing and edited my post...but the don thing and the ón thing, on the other hand...I still have no clue what's going on there.

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-02, 23:04

Welcome to the world of Irish dialectology.
It's so complicated, not even the authors know what's right anymore. :silly:

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-03, 0:03

Until someone says otherwise, I'm going to assume that a) Connemara is just weird and b) their answer key is fucked up. :P

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Re: Irish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-03, 0:09

"Otherwise."


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