Multi - Gaeilge

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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-11, 20:53

Eibhlín wrote:Tá an lá go breá anseo.

Tá sé maith go leor anseo. Tá sé an-fhliuch, agus níl sé ro-fhuar.

kevin wrote:Tá sé ina oíche anois, ach bhí an lá go breá anseo freisin

Tá mé tuirseach anois. An bhfuil tú tuirseach freisin?

Táim. Tá slaghdán orm agus níor chodlaíos go maith aréir.
I am. I have a cold and I didn't sleep well last night.

Ar chodail sibh go maith?

Nóta: Nothing wrong with tá mé tuirseach, but, as you know, a more purely Gaelic idiom is tá tuirse orm.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby kevin » 2014-01-11, 21:11

linguoboy wrote:Ar chodail sibh go maith?

Níor chodail mé mórán, ach go maith. Agus tusa, a Eibhlín?

Nóta: Nothing wrong with tá mé tuirseach, but, as you know, a more purely Gaelic idiom is tá tuirse orm.

Go raibh maith agat. I knew that indeed (or suspected it at least) but I wasn't sure what the noun was and I tried to write it without looking things up (except for ina oíche; I was about to write tá sé oíche, but that felt wrong). Now that we're in the past, I can't write without looking things up any more anyway, so I guess I've lost my lame excuse now. ;)

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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-11, 21:45

Chodail mé go maith.
I slept well.

I ndáiríre, ní chodlaím go dtí a dó.
I actually don't sleep until two.

I'm waiting for your corrections. ;)
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-11, 23:34

Eibhlín wrote:I ndáiríre, ní chodlaím go dtí a dó.
I actually don't sleep until two.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. Are you saying that you don't go to sleep until two or are you saying that, when you sleep, you don't sleep later than two? Because I would express each of those a bit differently.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-11, 23:42

linguoboy wrote:
Eibhlín wrote:I ndáiríre, ní chodlaím go dtí a dó.
I actually don't sleep until two.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. Are you saying that you don't go to sleep until two or are you saying that, when you sleep, you don't sleep later than two? Because I would express each of those a bit differently.


I want to say "I don't go to sleep until two".
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-12, 1:03

Eibhlín wrote:I want to say "I don't go to sleep until two".

"go to sleep" = téigh i luí

"I usually go to sleep at 11." Téim i mo luí go coitianta ag a haondéag. (Ach ní thitim do mo chodladh go díreach. But I don't fall asleep right away..)
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-01-12, 13:34

linguoboy wrote:Maybe the lessons will go into this later, but sean is unusual among adjectives in that it is more frequently prefixed to nouns than suffixed. That is, sean-charr sounds more natural to me than carr sean.


I agree, in fact I can't actually think of any instances off the top of my head when prefixing “sean” wouldn't sound more natural than placing it after the noun.

linguoboy wrote:I think this last pair may be reversed with regards to Standard Irish. According to the so-called "DeNTaLS rule", d, t, and s are not lenited after the consonants d, n, t, l, or s. I would say an-dhathúil myself, but that's because in Munster Irish (the dialect I speak), an- is actually pronounced ana- before consonants. So in this case, n doesn't actually come together with d. (Similarly, sean- is generally pronounced seana-.)

[Hopefully Ciarán will weigh in here; he's better versed in the Caighdeán Oifigiúil than I am.]


Tá an ceart agat, that is the rule in CO, but as you've mentioned before my Irish is a compromise between the various dialects and I, like you, would say “ana-dhathúil”.

linguoboy wrote:When certain adjectives expressing "subjective assessment" (e.g. álainn, breá, maith) are predicative, they are preceded by go. This applies also when they are prefixed but not when they are qualified by non-prefixing adverbs, e.g.:

Tá an bhean go hálainn inniú. Ach bhí sí riamh álainn. "The woman is beautiful today. But she's always been beautiful."


But if you placed the “riamh” at the end of the clause, could you have “Ach bhí sí go hálainn riamh”?

linguoboy wrote:Ar chodail sibh go maith?

Nóta: Nothing wrong with tá mé tuirseach, but, as you know, a more purely Gaelic idiom is tá tuirse orm.


Tá slaghdán ormsa freisin, caithfidh sé a bheith ag dul timpeall (...an domhan).

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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-12, 15:00

Irish is not easy...
Níl an Ghaeilge an-éasca...

I hope this is correct.

The thing that confuses me the most in Irish is the syntax. Apart from basic sentences, I don't know where to place the word, although I know Irish follows the VSO pattern.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-01-12, 15:28

Eibhlín wrote:Irish is not easy...
Níl an Ghaeilge an-éasca...

I hope this is correct.


The Irish says "Irish is not very easy". I'd prefer the phrasing "Ní éasca í an Ghaeilge" for this.

Eibhlín wrote:The thing that confuses me the most in Irish is the syntax. Apart from basic sentences, I don't know where to place the word, although I know Irish follows the VSO pattern.


It takes some getting used to, I don't have a perfect grip on it either. Generally, pronouns (including prepositional pronouns) like to go at the end of the clause where possible. Generally you should learn off the pattern of a given construction as you learnt it.

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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-12, 15:45

Ciarán12 wrote:[The Irish says "Irish is not very easy". I'd prefer the phrasing "Ní héasca í an Ghaeilge" for this.

Níorbh fhearr liomsa. Also, do we want to open the can of worms which is when to use the copula with adjectives and when to use the stative verb? I was holding off on that until further along in the lessons.

Eibhlín wrote:The thing that confuses me the most in Irish is the syntax. Apart from basic sentences, I don't know where to place the word, although I know Irish follows the VSO pattern.

Hopefully the guidelines here will be of some use: http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm.

One thing that might help: When it comes to adverbials, most languages either follow the order time - manner - place or place - manner - time. I don't know which is the default for Turkish (one of my biggest challenges with it was the syntax) but for Irish it's the latter, as you'll probably notice if you go through some of the sentences above.

Níl sí ró-éasca agus níl sí ró-dheacair ach oiread. It's not too easy but neither is it too difficult.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-01-12, 18:46

linguoboy wrote:
Ciarán12 wrote:[The Irish says "Irish is not very easy". I'd prefer the phrasing "Ní héasca í an Ghaeilge" for this.

Níorbh fhearr liomsa. Also, do we want to open the can of worms which is when to use the copula with adjectives and when to use the stative verb? I was holding off on that until further along in the lessons.


I was thinking of how that might be said in a normal conversation in Irish, and I thought the emphasis would be on "éasca", given that this would almost certainly be mentioned in the context of a discussion about Irish. I hadn't considered the grammatical complexity, I suppose you're right to leave it till later.

linguoboy wrote:
Níl sí ró-éasca agus níl sí ró-dheacair ach oiread. It's not too easy but neither is it too difficult.


Braitheann sé ar an dearcadh óna dtugtar faoi, ceapaimse féin go bhfuil a lán deacrachta inti (ach ní foghlaimeoir na dteangacha den scoth mé)
It depends on your point of view, I think it's very difficult myself (but I'm not the greatest language learner).

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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-12, 22:01

More exercises to do!

The milk is skimmed.
Tá an bainne bearrtha.

The box is open.
Tá an bosca oscailte.

The box is not open.
Níl an bosca oscailte.

The box is closed.
Tá an bosca dúnta.

I'm a lawyer.
Is dlíodóir mé.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-13, 2:32

Eibhlín wrote:The milk is skimmed.
Tá an bainne bearrtha.

Tá focal nua foghlamtha agam!

Tá an-chodladh orm ach is stuacán rómhór mé le dul i mo luí.
I'm very sleepy but I'm too stubborn to go to bed.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-13, 15:51

Doing some exercises (genitive form).

príomhchathair f - capital city
léarscáil f - map
bróg f - shoe
murlán m - handle
saol m - life

the capital of Ireland
an phríomhchathair na hÉireann

the map of Turkey
an léarscáil na Tuirce

the shoe of the boy
an bhróg an gharsúin

the handle of the door
an murlán an dorais

the life of a child
an saol linbh
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-13, 16:16

Eibhlín wrote:the capital of Ireland
an phríomhchathair na hÉireann

the map of Turkey
an léarscáil na Tuirce

the shoe of the boy
an bhróg an gharsúin

the handle of the door
an murlán an dorais

the life of a child
an saol linbh

Another quirk of Irish syntax (also found in Arabic): When you have a definite noun qualified by a definite noun in the genitive, the article only appears once. This causes no ambiguity because an indefinite noun would be followed by a construction with de, e.g. léarscáil den Tuirc "a map of Turkey". Naturally, when the article does not appear, there is no lenition.

Another quirk: Certain nouns which usually occur in pairs (e.g. eyes, ears, shoes) are preceded in the singular by the prefix leath-/leith-. Thus leathbhróg an gharsúin "the boy's shoe" (one of a pair). Just saying bróg here suggests to me that the boy has only one (as if we are talking about, say, an old shoe he keeps around as a home for his pet mouse or something).
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-13, 17:06

I didn't know this rule is found in Irish too (I know this rule in Arabic)! I learnt that the article is only found in a sentence once. (Since English isn’t my native language, feel free to correct both my English and Irish)

I'm also learning the Irish pronunciation (a bit difficult) while improving my word knowledge.

I want to eat.
Ba mhaith liom ithe.

I want to travel.
Ba mhaith liom taisteal.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-13, 17:25

Eibhlín wrote:I'm also learning the Irish pronunciation (a bit difficult) while improving my word knowledge.

Which pronunciation are you aiming for?

I didn't realise that you knew some Arabic. That'll help quite a bit when it comes to sorting out Irish syntax. Somewhere out there there's a comprehensive list of parallels (compiled by linguists who believed there was a common ancient substratum underlying both).

ETA: I don't know if you'll be able to view it, but here's the most comprehensive inventory of these parallels I've yet seen: http://www.academia.edu/283231/Remarks_on_the_Insular_Celtic_Hamito-Semitic_question
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Multiturquoise » 2014-01-13, 17:55

linguoboy wrote:Which pronunciation are you aiming for?


I'm aiming for the standard Irish pronunciation.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-13, 18:00

Eibhlín wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Which pronunciation are you aiming for?

I'm aiming for the standard Irish pronunciation.

I was afraid you'd say that. There is no such animal.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-13, 21:04

Eibhlín wrote:Ba mhaith liom ithe.
Cad é ba mhaith liom ithe?

Eibhlín wrote:Ba mhaith liom taisteal.
Cár mhaith leat dul?
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