Elaine - Gaeilge

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Elaine - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-08, 20:04

Fáilte!

Hello. I'm also learning Irish at the moment, but I couldn't learn the grammar very well... There are almost no Turkish resources for Irish, and it's hard to find English resources here. I'm totally in love with the Irish (Gaelic) language. The way they pronounce is always beautiful!

I tried to translate some sentences:
I'm Turkish = Is Turcach mé.
I speak Turkish = Tá Tuircis agam.
Ankara is the capital of Turkey = Is í Ankara príomhchathair na Tuirce.
I'm fifteen years old = Tá mé cúig bliana déag d'aois.

I'll ask my questions on this thread.
Last edited by Elaine on 2015-12-01, 16:59, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-08, 20:19

Go n-éirí an t-ádh leat, a Eftychia! Those sentences look fine to me. Let me know what questions you have.
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-01-09, 0:04

Fáilte chuig an bhfóram, a Eftychia! It's great to see another Irish learner :)

As for the grammar, I would be very surprised (and delighted) if there were any good resources for Irish in Turkish, but there are a fair few in English if you know where to look. Take a look at the "Links for learning Celtic languages" thread on this forum for places to start. In particular, if you know your grammar terminology well and aren't afraid of talk of declensions, cases and direct and indirect relative clauses (I try to be brave, but sometimes I get in too deep) then I would suggest this site: http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gram.htm (It's in English (and German), but I don't think you'll have any problems with it).

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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-09, 14:20

I need some exercises to do, in order to improve my Irish. I'll also make a Turkish-Irish-Turkish dictionary.

I'm trying to translate some sentences to Irish. (Sorry, my Irish is very bad at the moment)

The cat is white.
Tá an cat bán.

Máire is beautiful.
Tá Máire go hálainn.

I'm afraid of heights.
Tá eagla ar airde orm.

I want to go to Dublin.
Ba mhaith liom dul go Baile Átha Cliath.

This is a table.
Is é seo bord.
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-01-09, 17:42

Eftychia wrote:I'll also make a Turkish-Irish-Turkish dictionary.


That would be an awesome resource!

Eftychia wrote:I'm trying to translate some sentences to Irish. (Sorry, my Irish is very bad at the moment)

The cat is white.
Tá an cat bán.

Máire is beautiful.
Tá Máire go hálainn.


They both look fine to me.

Eftychia wrote:I'm afraid of heights.
Tá eagla ar airde orm.


In Irish you would literally say you have fear on you before something, so "Tá eagla orm roimh airde" or maybe "roimh na hairde". As for placing the "orm" at the end of the clause rather than after the "eagla", it sounds alright to me but the norm would be to have the "orm" directly after "eagla" I think, as with any other idioms with the pattern "Tá ABSTRACT NOUN ar (duine éigin)"

Eftychia wrote:I want to go to Dublin.
Ba mhaith liom dul go Baile Átha Cliath.


Looks fine.

Eftychia wrote:This is a table.
Is é seo bord.


It depends on how you want to emphasise this sentence. "Is é seo bord" means "THIS is a table", "Is bord é seo" means "This is a table" (neutral), and "Bord is ea é seo" means "This is a TABLE" (or "A TABLE is what this is"). So your way would not be the most common, neutral way of saying it, but it's not incorrect.

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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-09, 18:41

Ciarán12 wrote:As for placing the "orm" at the end of the clause rather than after the "eagla", it sounds alright to me but the norm would be to have the "orm" directly after "eagla" I think, as with any other idioms with the pattern "Tá ABSTRACT NOUN ar (duine éigin)"

The overriding rule for Irish, however, is for personal pronouns (both prepositional and independent) to come clause-final, which is why I think both variations sound acceptable. It would be interesting to hear what difference in emphasis native speakers might perceive, if any.
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-10, 18:01

I realised that the word "cailín" (girl) is masculine, not feminine. Like κορίτσι (girl) and αγόρι (boy) in Greek, which are neuter. :|

I'm learning some Irish vocabulary using Memrise.

fear m - man
buachaill m - boy
bean f - woman
cailín m - girl
teach m - house

He is a man.
Is fear é.

She is a woman.
Is bean í.

She is a girl.
Is cailín í.

This is a house.
Is teach é seo.

He is a boy.
Is buachaill é.

This house is green.
Tá an teach seo uaine.

This girl is beautiful.
Tá an cailín seo go hálainn.
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Ciarán12 » 2014-01-10, 18:55

That all looks fine, maith an fear!

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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-10, 19:49

Go raiḃ maiṫ agat!

I'm learning more words!

bord m - table
doras m - door
leabhar m - book
bán - white
oíche f - night

The book is on the table.
Tá an leabhar ar an mbord.

The door is open.
Tá an doras oscailte.

The book is white.
Tá an leabhar bán.

The night is dark.
Tá an oíche dorcha.

It is a book.
Is leabhar é.

This is the night!
Is í an oíche í seo!
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-10, 20:14

Ciarán12 wrote:That all looks fine, maith an fear!

An fear atá in Eftychia? Ní fheadar an fáth go rabhas den tuairim gur bhean í.

One small observation: There's nothing at all wrong with the sentence "Tá an teach seo uaine" from the point of view of grammar or semantics. But Irish has two words for "green", glas and uaine. Traditionally, uaine has been used for "vivid green", particularly that of painted or dyed items. Thus it makes perfect sense to use it in reference to a (painted) house. But I've had a highly knowledgeable fluent speaker point out to me that it's not much used nowadays, glas (originally covering to both the green of grass and leaves and the grey of animals, wool, cloth, etc.) having expanded in meaning under influence from English. Take that for what it's worth.

Eftychia wrote:This is a book.
Is leabhar é.

The Irish says "It is a book."

Eftychia wrote:This is the night!
Is í an oíche í seo!

Here you've run up against one of the most confusing aspects of the grammar of the copula: It cannot directly precede a definite noun phrase (such as a noun with the article or a proper name). Instead, the appropriate personal personal pronoun intervenes. For instance:

Is iad na leabhair iad. "They are the books."

Of course, this means that if the subject of the clause is a pronoun, then the pronoun appears twice. This may look at bit odd at first, but it's not good Irish without it.
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Re: Eftychia - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-10, 20:31

linguoboy wrote:One small observation: There's nothing at all wrong with the sentence "Tá an teach seo uaine" from the point of view of grammar or semantics. But Irish has two words for "green", glas and uaine. Traditionally, uaine has been used for "vivid green", particularly that of painted or dyed items. Thus it makes perfect sense to use it in reference to a (painted) house. But I've had a highly knowledgeable fluent speaker point out to me that it's not much used nowadays, glas (originally covering to both the green of grass and leaves and the grey of animals, wool, cloth, etc.) having expanded in meaning under influence from English. Take that for what it's worth.


I already knew it (uaine and glas), but thanks anyway!

I'm doing the third Irish lesson:

teach bán m - white house
leabhar nua m - new book
carr sean m - old car
carr m - car
nua - new

The car is new.
Tá an carr nua.

The old car is here.
Tá an carr sean anseo.

The new book is there.
Tá an leabhar nua ansin.

He is in the white house.
Tá sé sa teach bán.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-11, 4:18

Maybe the lessons will go into this later, but sean is unusual among adjectives in that it is more frequently prefixed to nouns than suffixed. That is, sean-charr sounds more natural to me than carr sean. Other prefixed adjectives (which, unlike sean, cannot be used any other way) are dea- "good" and droch- "bad" (e.g. dea-scéal "good news", droch-aimsir "bad weather"). If the noun following a prefixed adjective can be lenited, it is, e.g. dea-chomhairle "good advice".
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-11, 10:42

linguoboy wrote:Maybe the lessons will go into this later, but sean is unusual among adjectives in that it is more frequently prefixed to nouns than suffixed. That is, sean-charr sounds more natural to me than carr sean. Other prefixed adjectives (which, unlike sean, cannot be used any other way) are dea- "good" and droch- "bad" (e.g. dea-scéal "good news", droch-aimsir "bad weather"). If the noun following a prefixed adjective can be lenited, it is, e.g. dea-chomhairle "good advice".


I didn't know this... Thanks for informing me about this rule! ;)

I'm doing the next lesson!

fear óg m - young man
bean óg f - young woman
beoir f - beer
uisce m - water

I'm drinking water.
Tá mé ag ól uisce.

The young man drinks beer.
Tá an fear óg ag ól na beorach.

The young woman drinks water.
Tá an bhean óg ag ól uisce.

Edit: I forgot "young" in the last two sentences.
Last edited by Elaine on 2014-01-11, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby kevin » 2014-01-11, 11:56

Eibhlín wrote:I didn't know this... Thanks for informing me about this rule! ;)

By the way, you mentioned Memrise above. I've had the problem that when I picked just random courses, I didn't know what their quality was and that the courses sometimes teach things that are simply wrong. Some of them simple enough that even I can recognise them as wrong, but surely less obvious ones as well.

So my question is, can anyone recommand a known good Memrise course? Or is the best I can do to manually click "ignore" for each entry that I can recognise as wrong.

Eibhlín wrote:The young man drinks beer.
Tá an fear ag ól na beorach.

The young woman drinks water.
Tá an bhean ag ól uisce.

In Irish, they don't seem to be young. :)

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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-11, 15:58

I learnt these today:

wrong right

an airgead an t-airgead
an bean an bhean
an-dathúil an-dhathúil (p, t, c, b, g, d, s, f, m lenition)

The water is cold.
Tá an t-uisce fuar.

The woman is beautiful.
Tá an bhean álainn.

The girl is very beautiful. (cailín is a masculine noun)
Tá an cailín an-álainn.

The big city is here.
Tá an chathair mhór anseo.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-11, 19:02

Eibhlín wrote:wrong right

an airgead an t-airgead
an bean an bhean
an-dathúil an-dhathúil (p, t, c, b, g, d, s, f, m lenition)

I think this last pair may be reversed with regards to Standard Irish. According to the so-called "DeNTaLS rule", d, t, and s are not lenited after the consonants d, n, t, l, or s. I would say an-dhathúil myself, but that's because in Munster Irish (the dialect I speak), an- is actually pronounced ana- before consonants. So in this case, n doesn't actually come together with d. (Similarly, sean- is generally pronounced seana-.)

[Hopefully Ciarán will weigh in here; he's better versed in the Caighdeán Oifigiúil than I am.]

Eibhlín wrote:The woman is beautiful.
Tá an bhean go hálainn.

The girl is very beautiful. (cailín is a masculine noun)
Tá an cailín go han-álainn.

When certain adjectives expressing "subjective assessment" (e.g. álainn, breá, maith) are predicative, they are preceded by go. This applies also when they are prefixed but not when they are qualified by non-prefixing adverbs, e.g.:

Tá an bhean go hálainn inniú. Ach bhí sí riamh álainn. "The woman is beautiful today. But she's always been beautiful."
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-11, 19:16

linguoboy wrote:
Eibhlín wrote:The woman is beautiful.
Tá an bhean go hálainn.

The girl is very beautiful. (cailín is a masculine noun)
Tá an cailín go han-álainn.

When certain adjectives expressing "subjective assessment" (e.g. álainn, breá, maith) are predicative, they are preceded by go. This applies also when they are prefixed but not when they are qualified by non-prefixing adverbs, e.g.:

Tá an bhean go hálainn inniú. Ach bhí sí riamh álainn. "The woman is beautiful today. But she's always been beautiful."


Thanks for informing me. I should use "go hálainn"... (I hate when something/someone teaches something wrong)

Tá mé go breá. I'm fine.
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby linguoboy » 2014-01-11, 19:32

Eibhlín wrote:Tá mé go breá. I'm fine.

Tá mé go breá freisin. Ach an bhfuil an lá go breá ansin nó an bhfuil drochaimsir ann?
I'm fine, too. But is the day fine there or is there bad weather?
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby Elaine » 2014-01-11, 20:00

Tá an lá go breá anseo.
The day is fine here. ;)
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Re: Eibhlín - Gaeilge

Postby kevin » 2014-01-11, 20:32

Tá sé ina oíche anois, ach bhi an lá go breá anseo freisin
It's night now, but the day was fine here as well.

Tá mé tuirseach anois. An bhfuil tú tuirseach freisin?
I am tired now. Are you tired, too?

(Hope you don't mind me joining you with practising in your thread ;))


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