Mìcheal - Gàidhlig [+ga, gv]

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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+Manannais)

Postby Michael » 2013-04-04, 20:07

Do I sense that verbs like fás suas and éirigh suas are Anglicisms, or am I just too used to learning (and speaking) languages that don't possess an abundance of phrasal verbs? Doesn't quite seem like a monolingual Irish speaker would have said that. Not that I'm making an active effort to avoid Béarlachas. Me being a native speaker of English and someone who doesn't live in Éirinn, that would be a futile effort, even when I get into Ulster dialect later on down the line.
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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+Manannais)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-05, 13:57

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:Do I sense that verbs like fás suas and éirigh suas are Anglicisms, or am I just too used to learning (and speaking) languages that don't possess an abundance of phrasal verbs? Doesn't quite seem like a monolingual Irish speaker would have said that. Not that I'm making an active effort to avoid Béarlachas. Me being a native speaker of English and someone who doesn't live in Éirinn, that would be a futile effort, even when I get into Ulster dialect later on down the line.


Phrasal verbs are quite common in Irish, which makes the wholesale importation of English ones into Irish very easy to do. For me, it's hard to say because I'm sure I've seen those forms so often that to me it seems like good Irish, but you're probably right that it's Béarlachas. Consulting the dictionary, it seems that "éirí mór" (lit. "become big"), "teacht i méadaíocht" (lit. "come in increase") and "fás aníos" (lit. "grow down(ward)") are all terms for "grow up". People usually say "Rugadh is tógadh mé i mBlá Cliath (i mBaile Átha Cliath)" to mean "I was born and raised in Dublin".

With Béarlachas, it feels to me like there's "acceptable" Béarlachas and "unacceptable" Béarlachas. Like "Bhí mé ag, like, shoutáil aige, agus chuir sé a lármhéar suas againn! Bhí mé like so pissáilte as!"... would be unacceptable (though there're probably people who speak like this), but "D'fhás mé suas leis an teanga Béarla" probably wouldn't raise too many eyebrows from my (limited) experience.

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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+Manannais)

Postby Michael » 2013-04-05, 23:18

I'm starting to get the hang of velarized and, to a limited extent, palatalized consonants! I had the hang of palatals [dʲ], [gʲ], [kʲ], [sʲ], and [tʲ] from the start—I simply pronounce them [d͡ʒ], [ɟ], [c], [ʃ], and [t͡ʃ]! (Obvious Ulster bias hehe.) I'm starting to wrap my tongue around the others too.
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Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Maayl - Gailck (+Yernish)

Postby Michael » 2013-04-08, 19:51

I'm so conflicted between these two Celtic languages that I love so much, but I've broken down and decided to do Manx. (I might work on Irish on a passive level in the near future, though.) I feel I have to force myself to study Irish, yet with Manx, I'm attracted to it like a magnet, which might seem strange, since they're essentially the same language. Tá brón mór agam, mo chairde.
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Every human being is hostage to their own deeds.

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Re: Maayl - Gailck (+Yernish)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-08, 20:33

I think you're agonising too much over this. It all leads to the same thing in the end. If you get fluent at Manx, Irish will be a piece of cake, and vice versa. If you have more motivation for Manx, go with it.

Foddee dy jeanym eh neesht! :)

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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+gv)

Postby Michael » 2013-04-11, 16:05

Youse know of any resources for Ulster Irish besides the Acmhainní Gaedhilge page and Irish On Your Own? I'm tempted to just go with Ó Siadhail's book and learn Connacht dialect, but I'm affectionately attached to Ulster dialect. It's certainly the one whose phonology I like the most. (I'm still learning the basics of CO, but I'm trying to acquire something of a Donegal accent.)

Also, please excuse my having gone back and forth between Irish and Manx. I've realized I'm actually less interested in Manx than I purport to be, and that it would only be smart to focus on Irish and dive into Manx once I've gained that one star in Irish. :P
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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+gv)

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-11, 16:25

There is a set of textbooks, I forget the name though.
Maith Tú, or something like that maybe.

EDIT: Tús Maith, that's the name of the series! It's a series of three textbooks. I remember looking into getting them when I first started seriously learning Irish, but I went with Ó Siadhail's book instead. Tús Maith, as far as I'm aware, is specifically for learning Ulster Irish.

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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+gv)

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-11, 19:03

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:Youse know of any resources for Ulster Irish besides the Acmhainní Gaedhilge page and Irish On Your Own?


I didn't even know about these ones! Thanks! But seeing as I've never tried specifically to learn Ulster Irish, I don't really know of any resources.

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:I'm tempted to just go with Ó Siadhail's book and learn Connacht dialect, but I'm affectionately attached to Ulster dialect. It's certainly the one whose phonology I like the most. (I'm still learning the basics of CO, but I'm trying to acquire something of a Donegal accent.)


TBH, I think that's your best bet. I mean, Donegal Irish is not so different from the standard (I know the standard is least heavily influenced by UI, but it's still the same language). Just try to use as many Ulsterisms in your CO as you can, and use Ulster pronunciation. Talk to Dominic, he knows Ulster Irish.

księżycowy wrote:EDIT: Tús Maith, that's the name of the series! It's a series of three textbooks. I remember looking into getting them when I first started seriously learning Irish, but I went with Ó Siadhail's book instead. Tús Maith, as far as I'm aware, is specifically for learning Ulster Irish.


I remember seeing them on the shelves in bookshops back home. They looked really good, but by the time I had discovered them I already had loads of materials and had kind of graduated past Tús Maith. There was one other textbook I remember seeing in Ireland, it was a flimsy, almost photo-copied-looking book/booklet that taught conversational Irish, and as far as I remember it was in Ulster Irish. I can't remember what it was called though, but if I remember I'll post it here. This is actually quite annoying, I remember the shop it was in too and everything else about the damn situation except what the book was called!

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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+gv)

Postby linguoboy » 2013-04-11, 19:39

IIRC, the BBC Website teaches Ulster Irish.
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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+gv)

Postby Doimnic » 2013-04-11, 21:25

HoItalosPhilellên wrote:Youse know of any resources for Ulster Irish besides the Acmhainní Gaedhilge page and Irish On Your Own? I'm tempted to just go with Ó Siadhail's book and learn Connacht dialect, but I'm affectionately attached to Ulster dialect. It's certainly the one whose phonology I like the most. (I'm still learning the basics of CO, but I'm trying to acquire something of a Donegal accent.)

There are not that many materials out there for Gaeilg Uladh, a decent description is "An Teanga Bheo Gaeilge Uladh" by Dónall P. Ó Baoill, though it might be currently out of print: http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_i ... ts_id=1441 . There are "An Teanga Bheo" books for several dialects, though not for all.

Another book in Gaeilg Thír Chonaill is "Taisce Focal" by Róise Ní Bhaoill, short stories for learners with everyday Irish. Comes with a cd. Again I'm not sure whether it's in print or only available second hand. http://www.siopagaeilge.ie/products/C%F ... uct1-7.htm

In order to get the hang of the pronounciation I like to listen to Rónán on Raidió na Gaeltachta: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_ronanbeo.xml , and even though I am sometimes far from understanding every word it's not too hard to understand the topic he's talking about. And it's quite enjoyable as well, "idir shúgradh is dáiríre" as it says on the website ;) and as you progress you start understanding more and more pieces.

Another possibility for listening to native Ulster Irish is to watch tv series like the comedies "CU Burn" and "Gleann Ceo" on TG4. The former is on youtube, I don't know about the latter. I must say, the dialogues can be quite hard to understand, it's really "pure dialect". But there are English subtitles, so you can mostly figure out what they said in Irish after watching a couple of times.

Like księżycowy I have heard that "Tús Maith" is focusing on Ulster Irish, or a standardised version anyway. It would make sense, since the author, Risteard Mac Gabhann, is from Derry. I personally don't have the books...

There is an online course that seems to be focusing more on Ulster Irish than on the other dialects:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~hillers/BUNTUS-1.pdf
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~hillers/BUNTUS-2.pdf
They are fairly standard, I think, but they have Ulster words like "tábla" and "madadh". I cannot say much about it, I have only discovered it quite recently.

Ciarán12 wrote:
HoItalosPhilellên wrote:I'm tempted to just go with Ó Siadhail's book and learn Connacht dialect, but I'm affectionately attached to Ulster dialect. It's certainly the one whose phonology I like the most. (I'm still learning the basics of CO, but I'm trying to acquire something of a Donegal accent.)


TBH, I think that's your best bet. I mean, Donegal Irish is not so different from the standard (I know the standard is least heavily influenced by UI, but it's still the same language). Just try to use as many Ulsterisms in your CO as you can, and use Ulster pronunciation.


Yeah, I think that is what a lot of people do, starting with the standard and than colouring it with the dialect of their choice. I mean, the basics like the concept of lenition and eclipse, the VSO word order, the caol le caol rule and so forth are the same for all varieties anyway...
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Re: Mícheál - Gaeilge (+gv)

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-12, 13:17

Doimnic wrote:There is an online course that seems to be focusing more on Ulster Irish than on the other dialects:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~hillers/BUNTUS-1.pdf
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~hillers/BUNTUS-2.pdf
They are fairly standard, I think, but they have Ulster words like "tábla" and "madadh". I cannot say much about it, I have only discovered it quite recently.

Cool find! Just wish there was audio to go with it. :(

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Re: Mìcheal - Gàidhlig [+ga, gv]

Postby Lewis91 » 2013-04-29, 21:50

Nach innis duin' agaibh dhomh dè as coireach gur e 'Gàidhlig' tiotal an snàith a tha seo? =s

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Re: Mìcheal - Gàidhlig [+ga, gv]

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-04-30, 1:43

Lewis91 wrote:Nach innis duin' agaibh dhomh dè as coireach gur e 'Gàidhlig' tiotal an snàith a tha seo? =s


Bíonn sé ag aistriú idir an trí teanga Gaelacha, agus ag athainmniú an snáithe seo gach uair.

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Re: Mìcheal - Gàidhlig [+ga, gv]

Postby Michael » 2013-04-30, 6:43

Lewis91 wrote:Nach innis duin' agaibh dhomh dè as coireach gur e 'Gàidhlig' tiotal an snàith a tha seo? =s

A bheil thu a’ smaoineachadh gun robh mi cuir troimh chéile Gàidhlig le Gaeilge?

Tha mi beag ás a chiall, ach seallaidh mi dhuibh gu faodaidh mi! :evil:
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Re: Mìcheal - Gàidhlig [+ga, gv]

Postby Lewis91 » 2013-04-30, 8:56

'S mi nach eil a bhalaich, bha mi dìreach airson faighinn a-mach leis nach deach guth a ràdh air a' Ghàidhlig really. Tha mi cinnteach gu bheil thu eòlach air an sgaradh eadar an dà chànain.


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