Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

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Llawygath
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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-15, 21:08

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Beth yw ei enw hi?

Does dim enw Cymreig 'da hi.
:? Dydy 'Foo-Foo', 'Penny' a 'Cassie' dim yn Gymreig ychwaith. Dydw i ddim yn deall.

Mae enw Gwyddelig, enw Almaenaidd, enw Siapaneaidd, ac ati gyda hi.
('ati' = 'etc.'?)
linguoboy wrote:Dylai bod enw Cymreig 'da hi hefyd,
Pam? Ydy tri [tair?] enw dim yn ddigon?
linguoboy wrote:timod?
"No matches."

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Dŷn ni'n ei galw hi'n union "y Gath" ran amlaf.
Wait a minute. Are you saying that you call her "the Cat" most often because she doesn't have a Welsh name (?) or because she doesn't have a name at all?

Does dim ond un gath 'da ni, felly does dim angen go iawn enw iddi..
How does this answer the question? "We only have one cat, so there's not much need for her to have a name"? (Yes, yes, that's a terrible translation, I'm sure.)

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby YngNghymru » 2012-10-16, 12:54

Llawygath wrote:Somehow I'm not seeing what these sentences are supposed to demonstrate. :? I'm also having a hard time parsing the second -- it looks to be <give to my bags me on the floor and sit>. How to interpret that?


'I put my bags on the floor and sat down.'

The point is that when the person has already been mentioned, the pronoun is emphatic - otherwise it's unmarked.

As well, is it i mi, i fi, ifi, imi, or all four depending on context, where you are or what mood you're in?


They're all acceptable except maybe i mi (and you'll probably see that too). imi is the most literary.
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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-16, 14:22

YngNghymru wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Somehow I'm not seeing what these sentences are supposed to demonstrate. :? I'm also having a hard time parsing the second -- it looks to be <give to my bags me on the floor and sit>. How to interpret that?


'I put my bags on the floor and sat down.'

The point is that when the person has already been mentioned, the pronoun is emphatic - otherwise it's unmarked.
Which pronoun are you referring to here? Unless this sentence is missing the subject pronoun, then I don't really see what's going on.

YngNghymru wrote:
As well, is it i mi, i fi, ifi, imi, or all four depending on context, where you are or what mood you're in?


They're all acceptable except maybe i mi (and you'll probably see that too). imi is the most literary.
I see. I've seen i mi a few times, two of which are below:
Welsh with Ease wrote:Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi

YngNghymru wrote:O, reit. Wel, rhaid i mi fynd

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby linguoboy » 2012-10-16, 14:53

Llawygath wrote:Mae enw Gwyddelig, enw Almaenaidd, enw Siapaneaidd, ac ati gyda hi.
('ati' = 'etc.'?)[/quote]
ac ati = etc.

Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Dylai bod enw Cymreig 'da hi hefyd,
Pam? Ydy tri [tair?] enw dim yn ddigon?

Mae mwy na tri 'da hi. Enw Coreaidd sy 'da hi hefyd ac enw Tsieineaidd, enw Pwylaidd, a cwpl mwy.

Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:timod?
"No matches."

"y'know?"

Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Wait a minute. Are you saying that you call her "the Cat" most often because she doesn't have a Welsh name (?) or because she doesn't have a name at all?

Does dim ond un gath 'da ni, felly does dim angen go iawn enw iddi..
How does this answer the question? "We only have one cat, so there's not much need for her to have a name"? (Yes, yes, that's a terrible translation, I'm sure.)

Fydd gathod ddim yn ateb i'w enw beth bynnag.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-16, 22:37

linguoboy wrote:ac ati = etc.
Fine.
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Dylai bod enw Cymreig 'da hi hefyd,
Pam? Ydy tri [tair?] enw dim yn ddigon?

Mae mwy na tri 'da hi. Enw Coreaidd sy 'da hi hefyd ac enw Tsieineaidd, enw Pwylaidd, a cwpl mwy.
Ydy wyth enw 'da hi? Pam?! Ac wyt ti'n ei galw hi "y Gath"?
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:timod?
"No matches."

"y'know?"
Diolch.
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Wait a minute. Are you saying that you call her "the Cat" most often because she doesn't have a Welsh name (?) or because she doesn't have a name at all?

Does dim ond un gath 'da ni, felly does dim angen go iawn enw iddi..
How does this answer the question? "We only have one cat, so there's not much need for her to have a name"? (Yes, yes, that's a terrible translation, I'm sure.)

Fydd gathod ddim yn ateb i'w enw beth bynnag.
Sorry, my mental parser failed after about the first six words. (Maybe it's "cats don't answer to any names anyway"?) I also can't remember what i'w is a contraction of, and I can't see why it's gathod and not cathod.

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby linguoboy » 2012-10-17, 19:41

Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Fydd cathod ddim yn ateb i'w enw beth bynnag.
Sorry, my mental parser failed after about the first six words. (Maybe it's "cats don't answer to any names anyway"?) I also can't remember what i'w is a contraction of, and I can't see why it's gathod and not cathod.

Sorri, o'n i wedi bwriadu ysgrifennu "cathod".

Cywasgiad "i" ac "ei" neu "eu" yw "i'w".
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-17, 21:16

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Fydd cathod ddim yn ateb i'w enw beth bynnag.
Sorry, my mental parser failed after about the first six words. (Maybe it's "cats don't answer to any names anyway"?) I also can't remember what i'w is a contraction of, and I can't see why it's gathod and not cathod.

Sorri, o'n i wedi bwriadu ysgrifennu "cathod".
Dw i'n gweld. Beth yw "o'n"?
linguoboy wrote:Cywasgiad "i" ac "ei" neu "eu" yw "i'w".
Diolch.

Now let's see if I can understand what you said. <will-be cats not answering to their name whatsoever>. It looks like it should mean "Cats won't answer to their names anyway". Is that way off, or did I get it this time? If that's what you said, then (at least, so I hear) it's not entirely true.
As well, what's Pwylaidd? UWTSD couldn't find it.

Yes, and the sentence Yng posted earlier just became totally obvious to me -- it's not <gave to my bags me on the floor and sat>, it's <gave I my bags me on the floor and sat>. I was trying to interpret the thing as having VOS word order. :roll:

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby linguoboy » 2012-10-17, 21:43

Llawygath wrote:Dw i'n gweld. Beth yw "o'n"?

Cywasgiad "oeddwn" yw "o'n".

Llawygath wrote:Now let's see if I can understand what you said. <will-be cats not answering to their name whatsoever>. It looks like it should mean "Cats won't answer to their names anyway". Is that way off, or did I get it this time? If that's what you said, then (at least, so I hear) it's not entirely true.

Does erioed wedi bod gen i gath oedd yn ateb i'w henw ei hunan.

Llawygath wrote:As well, what's Pwylaidd? UWTSD couldn't find it.

As you may have surmised by now, -aidd is a common adjectival suffix. Mae rhywbeth yn Bwylaidd os ydy e'n dod o Wlad Pwyl.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-17, 23:44

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Dw i'n gweld. Beth yw "o'n"?

Cywasgiad "oeddwn" yw "o'n".
You need a contraction for that? :?
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Now let's see if I can understand what you said. <will-be cats not answering to their name whatsoever>. It looks like it should mean "Cats won't answer to their names anyway". Is that way off, or did I get it this time? If that's what you said, then (at least, so I hear) it's not entirely true.

Does erioed wedi bod gen i gath oedd yn ateb i'w henw ei hunan.
Really.
(Beth sydd o'i le ar "byth"?)
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:As well, what's Pwylaidd? UWTSD couldn't find it.

As you may have surmised by now, -aidd is a common adjectival suffix. Mae rhywbeth yn Bwylaidd os ydy e'n dod o Wlad Pwyl.
I thought it was "Polish". (Seriously, though, the Welsh Wiki page didn't tell me a whole lot! :P I looked at the English version just to be sure.)

Edit: Oh, yes -- about a few days ago I started on the Catchphrase course. I'm doing it with two other people, though, so it won't be very fast going because we have to work around our three separate schedules. Anyway, I just thought you all, especially linguoboy, would like to know that. :)
Edit2: From here on in, whenever I see something somebody posted in here that I'm unsure of, I'll put it in blue. (I'm referring to grammar, vocabulary and such, obviously.)

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-21, 17:42

Is there anybody here?
If you guys are thinking that I won't be coming here anymore just because I'm doing Catchphrase, then you're wrong. I've found this thread very helpful and I will continue to post on it if I can be confident that someone will reply.
Hwyl fawr. :)

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby linguoboy » 2012-10-22, 17:32

Llawygath wrote:Is there anybody here?

If you don't see any posts from the rest of us for a couple days, your assumption shouldn't be that we've given up on the thread. We just have lives outside of Unilang.

Llawygath wrote:(Beth sydd o'i le ar "byth"?)

Byth is used with non-past tenses. That's why it's "Cymru am byth!" ("Wales forever!") and not *"Cymru am erioed!".

I'm glad to see that you've started Catchphrase. Beth yw dy farn di amdano hyd yn hyn?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-22, 18:42

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Is there anybody here?

If you don't see any posts from the rest of us for a couple days, your assumption shouldn't be that we've given up on the thread. We just have lives outside of Unilang.
True.
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:(Beth sydd o'i le ar "byth"?)

Byth is used with non-past tenses. That's why it's "Cymru am byth!" ("Wales forever!") and not *"Cymru am erioed!".
Whyever you need two of them is beyond me, but at least there are rules for it.
linguoboy wrote:I'm glad to see that you've started Catchphrase. Beth yw dy farn di amdano hyd yn hyn?
<what is your opinion you for length in this?> :? Parser failed. Dydw i ddim yn deall. Beth wyt ti'n ceisio dweud?

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby linguoboy » 2012-10-22, 19:21

Llawygath wrote:Whyever you need two of them is beyond me, but at least there are rules for it.

That's really the wrong way to frame to matter. Why does English "need" both ever and never when French gets by just with jamais? Obviously it's not a question of "need"--no language "needs" to be more complicated than Toki Pona in order to satisfy basic communicative functions. But they are more complicated; that's just the way they evolved. And because they evolved largely independent of one another their complications are different.

Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I'm glad to see that you've started Catchphrase. Beth yw dy farn di amdano hyd yn hyn?
<what is your opinion you for length in this?> :? Parser failed. Dydw i ddim yn deall. Beth wyt ti'n ceisio dweud?

Priod-ddull [idiom] yw "hyd yn hyn". Mae hyn yn golygu "so far" neu "up til now".

Remember, the various dictionaries will allow you to search for phrases rather than looking up each word individually. Don't shy away from making use of that.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-24, 15:32

Been sick the last few days, so have been in bed instead of on here. Lives outside of Unilang indeed! Anyway, I'm back now. :)

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:Whyever you need two of them is beyond me, but at least there are rules for it.

That's really the wrong way to frame tothe matter. Why does English "need" both ever and never when French gets by just with jamais? Obviously it's not a question of "need"--no language "needs" to be more complicated than Toki Pona in order to satisfy basic communicative functions. But they are more complicated; that's just the way they evolved. And because they evolved largely independent of one another their complications are different.
I spent a while thinking about this, and I came to the ultimate conclusion that you're absolutely right here. What I thought at first was that "ever" and "never" meant different things and byth and erioed didn't, but then I realized that that conclusion was invalid -- from the point of view of a (native) French speaker, "ever" / "never" wouldn't really mean anything different from each other either, which come to think of it, they don't really.
linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:
linguoboy wrote:I'm glad to see that you've started Catchphrase. Beth yw dy farn di amdano hyd yn hyn?
<what is your opinion you for length in this?> :? Parser failed. Dydw i ddim yn deall. Beth wyt ti'n ceisio dweud?

Priod-ddull [idiom] yw "hyd yn hyn". Mae hyn yn golygu "so far" neu "up til now".
Diolch.
Dw i'n hoffi Catchphrase hyd yn hyn. Fy nheulu fi hefyd. :) Ond dydw i ddim yn hoffi coffi! :P (A lot more I want to say, but I can't figure out how to say it in Welsh.)
linguoboy wrote:Remember, the various dictionaries will allow you to search for phrases rather than looking up each word individually. Don't shy away from making use of that.
That's true, but I didn't recognize that there was an idiom there. I guess I'll try harder next time.

------
There are a couple of problematic thingies back at Omniglot that I'd like to clear up. Here you go:
Chysgiff y gath ddim ar wely nad ydy e ddim yn gynnes!


Mae'r tatws sydd mewn vichyssoise wedi stwnsio, ydy?

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby linguoboy » 2012-10-25, 14:43

Llawygath wrote:There are a couple of problematic thingies back at Omniglot that I'd like to clear up. Here you go:
Chysgiff y gath ddim ar wely nad ydy e ddim yn gynnes!


Mae'r tatws sydd mewn vichyssoise wedi stwnsio, ydy?

What exactly is it you find "problematic" about these things?
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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-26, 0:12

linguoboy wrote:
Llawygath wrote:There are a couple of problematic thingies back at Omniglot that I'd like to clear up. Here you go:
Chysgiff y gath ddim ar wely nad ydy e ddim yn gynnes!


Mae'r tatws sydd mewn vichyssoise wedi stwnsio, ydy?

What exactly is it you find "problematic" about these things?
I meant to put that all in the post, but ran out of time. Anyway, here you are:

#1: The relative clause has two things negating it, not one like in Yng's example clauses that I'm recalling. I'm not sure which way of doing things is right. Over here we have gwely nad ydy e ddim yn gynnes and over there we have y dyn nad ydy ei dad wedi cael ei arestio. Admittedly one is a direct relative clause and the other is indirect, but is it really the case that in one you need one negation prong and in the other you need two? I mean, I had the impression that it was incorrect to say *y dyn nad ydy ei dad ddim wedi cael ei arestio. Is it also incorrect to say gwely nad ydy e'n gynnes, or ... what? :?
#2: I never heard of any dialect that permitted ydy? all by itself as a tag question. There's on'd ydy?, yn dydy? and probably just dydy? (would have to reread the tag questions essay which I am too busy for), but are you allowed to totally eliminate on'd with no trace?

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-28, 2:21

I was writing up a document today for my parents, aka co-learners, and I tried to cover the issue of yes/no answers but the fact is I'm only familiar with about 24 of the c. 50 different ways of saying "yes". (I know it sounds like an awful lot when I put it that way. :P) I'd like to clear up just how many kinds of yes there are really; I know you can use all the interrogative forms of bod to mean "yes" depending on person, number and tense, but my understanding was that there was also one single word that meant yes and wasn't a verb form, and also that you used gwneud if the main verb in the question wasn't bod. I'm pretty sure of the latter, but I'm very fuzzy on the former -- I've heard references to two words that supposedly meant "yes" (ie, ia) and I'm not clear on how to pronounce either of them exactly or for when you use them.
The same goes for "no" pretty much -- same things that mean "yes" seem to mean "no" if you stick nac in front -- but I'm fairly sure that the nonverbal "no" is na.

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby YngNghymru » 2012-10-29, 0:29

Those two sentences are both wrong. y gwely nad ydy'n gynnes or nad ydy ddim yn gynnes are both correct, but the use of the pronoun is weiiiiiiiird. There's no difference between the two types of negation - even Gramadeg y Gymraeg thinks they're the same.

The ydy thing is maybe an acceptable dialectalism (dialects are pretty weird, after all!) but the standard option is on'd ydy? Also I think I would prefer just y tatws mewn vichysoisse (as in English).
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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-29, 1:35

YngNghymru wrote:Those two sentences are both wrong.
Which two? I think I provided more than two.
YngNghymru wrote:y gwely nad ydy'n gynnes or nad ydy ddim yn gynnes are both correct, but the use of the pronoun is weiiiiiiiird.
Right you are -- direct relative clauses aren't supposed to have a resumptive pronoun in them. You should talk to linguoboy about that, though, because it's her sentence that I gave there.

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Re: Croeso i'r Gymraeg!

Postby Llawygath » 2012-10-30, 15:02

Mae cwpl cwestiwn 'da fi.

1. Pam yw hi'n "y cathod Cymru" a dim yn "cathod Cymru"?
2. Beth yr yw linguoboy yn ei galw ei cath yn y milfeddyg?
3. Sut mae rhywbeth fel "fflŵorin" yn cael ei seiniad?

[Sorry about the severely messed up Welsh. I hope you can understand it, but here's what I meant just in case:

I have a couple of questions.

1. Why is it "y cathod Cymru" and not "cathod Cymru"?
2. What does linguoboy call her cat at the vet?
3. How do you pronounce something like "fflŵorin"? (I mean, isn't the circumflex for marking irregularly stressed syllables or something, and doesn't the stress have to be on one of the last two syllables? What's going on here?)]


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