Moderator:kevin
YngNghymru wrote:Couple of things - in tag questions, 'isn't it' is onid yw/ydy, usually shortened in writing to on'dydy?
YngNghymru wrote:And if you're using the pre-verbal noun pronouns in one place, you should probably use them everywhere (so beth wyt ti'n ei weld.
Llawygath wrote:Dw i'n gweld y ci dan y gwely nawr.
Nag ydy. Mae e'n celcio oherwydd dynion y sothach. (Did that make any sense, or will I have to explain better?)linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:Dw i'n gweld y ci dan y gwely nawr.
Ydy e'n cysgu?
Llawygath wrote:Nag ydy. Mae e'n celcio oherwyddu rhag dynion y sothachbiniau.
linguoboy wrote: There's a good analysis of it here: http://benjamins.com/series/dia/25-1/art/03rot.pdf
I don't recall seing resumptive object pronouns used in wh-questions before in Welsh. Nodwedd dy dafodiaith yw hon?
What's wrong with sothach? UWTSD said that meant "garbage", and besides it can't find biniau. Can you explain this?linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:Nag ydy. Mae e'n celcio oherwyddu rhag dynion y sothachbiniau.
Pa gath? Oes cath yma? Mae'r ci'n rhusiedig. (It's more complicated than that, but rhaid i mi fynd.)linguoboy wrote:Cachgi yw e! Pam dydy e ddim yn ddewr fel y gath?
Llawygath wrote:What's wrong with sothach? UWTSD said that meant "garbage"linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:Nag ydy. Mae e'n celcio oherwyddu rhag dynion y sothachbiniau.
Llawygath wrote:and besides it can't find biniau. Can you explain this?
Llawygath wrote:Pa gath? Oes cath yma? Mae'r ci'n rhusiedig. (It's more complicated than that, but rhaid i mi fynd.)linguoboy wrote:Cachgi yw e! Pam dydy e ddim yn ddewr fel y gath?
YngNghymru wrote:No, this is entirely standard - far more a feature of the standard language than of dialects, and far more a feature of southern dialects, as I understand it, than of northern dialects. Interrogatives are basically structured like relative clauses - with some exceptions - so you need a resumptive pronoun.
6.131
Blaenu Gwrthrych enwol i ferf gyfansawdd
O flaenu Gwrthrych enwol i ferf syml bydd y rhagenw perthynol a yn cysylltu'r Gwrthrych blaenedig â'r ferf, e.e.
...
O flaenu Gwrthrych enwol i ferf gyfansawdd, fodd bynnag:
i. nid a ond y fydd yn cysylltu'r Gwrthrych â'r Ferf, a
ii. ychwanegir rhagenw blaen rhydd - Gwrthrych cyflenwol - sydd yn adleisio rhif a pherson y Gwrthrych o flaen y berfenw, e.e.
Teisen y mae Sara wedi ei gwneud.
Y dillad yr oedd yr afr wedi eu bwyta.
6.157
Llunio cwestiwn am Wrthrych
Y mae'n arferol blaenu elfennau pwysleisiedig. Ond yn wahanol i elfennau eraill, dechrau'r Cymal yw safle niwtral pwy, beth ac Ymadroddion pa. Er hynny, elfennau wedi eu blaenu yw pwy, beth ac Ymadroddion pa pan fyddant ar ddechrau Cymal. Fel gydag unrhyw Wrthrych a flaenir, felly, gwneir iawn am ddiffyg Gwrthrych i'r berfenw drwy ychwanegu Gwrthrych cyflenwol o'i flaen. Am mai enwau gwrywaidd yw pwy a peth, y rhagenw blaen gwrywaidd ei sydd yn eu cyflenwi, e.e.
Mae'r offeiriad yn paentio'r organyddes.- > Pwy y mae'r offeiriad yn ei baentio?
Mae'r athrawes yn gyrru tractor. -> Beth y mae'r athrawes yn ei yrru?
I see.linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:What's wrong with sothach? UWTSD said that meant "garbage"linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:Nag ydy. Mae e'n celcio oherwyddu rhag dynion y sothachbiniau.
They don't call them "garbage men" in the UK; there they are "dustmen" or "bin men". An older colloquialism, "ash man", is the source for an alternative Welsh designation, dyn lludw.
I wasn't, but I just did now and found the definition.linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:and besides it can't find biniau. Can you explain this?
Are you searching it as "Part of a word or phrase"?
Dynion y biniau. (Say, doesn't rhusiedig take the soft mutation here, or am I seeing things?) Dydy'r gath dim yn ddewr; mae'r gath yn celu.linguoboy wrote:Llawygath wrote:Pa gath? Oes cath yma? Mae'r ci'n rhusiedig. (It's more complicated than that, but rhaid i mi fynd.)linguoboy wrote:Cachgi yw e! Pam dydy e ddim yn ddewr fel y gath?
Beth sydd wedi ei rusio?
YngNghymru wrote:This IS an indirect relative clause. The object of a verbnoun is treated as the possessor of the verbnoun
YngNghymru wrote:I hope this has convinced you. I'm surprised you haven't come across this construction before, to be honest - it is pretty standard in the literary language, and the elided pronouns are the source of the interrogative mutation you're talking about (not the other way around).
YngNghymru wrote:Academi y Gymraeg decides what is and isn't standard - and they publish an official grammar
YngNghymru wrote:Edit: also, having skimmed that paper, it seems to me like the form nag yw e is, as I thought, only acceptable with negative forms... right?
Dynion y biniau. (Say, doesn't rhusiedig take the soft mutation here, or am I seeing things?) Dydy'r gath dim yn ddewr; mae'r gath yn celu.
That's funny. I remember now that yn llyfiad is a correct form, which fits with what you just said.YngNghymru wrote:There's no need for the soft mutation there because rh and ll don't mutate after 'yn'
Thanks. I'm gradually learning to keep all the mutations straight, which is a good thing.YngNghymru wrote:(but well done for remembering the soft mutation, anyway!)
Is there something wrong with this, or did I manage to get it right? (I also can't think what "full moon" is in Spanish, but this is obviously the wrong place for that. ) But anyway, is there some idiom for "full moon" that I don't know?Croeso i'r Leuad Lond yng Nghymraeg!
Thanks much. I was pretty tired of having my opening page say nothing but "Mae'r gath dew yn cysgu ar y ddôr" and all manner of things like that.YngNghymru wrote:Lleuad Lawn or Lleuad Gyfan - both are fine.
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