[Scottish Gaelic] Questions about pronunciation

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Quevenois
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Re: (Pre-)aspiration

Postby Quevenois » 2010-02-01, 7:32

I know that Norn, a Western Scandinavian language, was spoken in Scotland for quite awhile, before it's extinction.


Norn was spoken in the Orkney and in the Shetland, not in the rest of Scotland as far as I know. The old nordic language that was spoken in Scotland (where Gaelic is spoken now, and elsewhere) was Old Norse.

Could Scottish Gaelic's voiceless-only plosives and pre-aspiration be because of Western Scandinavian influence, or pure coincidence? Please give thoughtful answers, not just "yes" or "no". :P Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!


Yes, it is because of the influence of Old Norse that Scottish Gaelic has preaspiration etc. Old Norse had influence on Scottish Gaelic in vocabulary too (and on grammar too, even on Irish and Manx grammar actually).
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

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Re: (Pre-)aspiration

Postby Sean of the Dead » 2010-02-01, 7:40

Quevenois wrote:Norn was spoken in the Orkney and in the Shetland, not in the rest of Scotland as far as I know. The old nordic language that was spoken in Scotland (where Gaelic is spoken now, and elsewhere) was Old Norse.

Orkney and Shetland are Scotland, aren't they? Although, I wasn't thinking about that, or I mixed the two up. Something like that. :D

Yes, it is because of the influence of Old Norse that Scottish Gaelic has preaspiration etc. Old Norse had influence on Scottish Gaelic in vocabulary too (and on grammar too, even on Irish and Manx grammar actually).

You seem quite sure about this. :) I don't doubt your statements, but do you know of anywhere I could read further about this? I love historical linguistics and etymology and the like.

I am also aware that there are several Gaelic loans in Faeroese, quite interesting. :yep:
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Re: (Pre-)aspiration

Postby Quevenois » 2010-02-01, 8:13

Orkney and Shetland are Scotland, aren't they? Although, I wasn't thinking about that, or I mixed the two up. Something like that. :D


Orkney and Shetland are in Scotland but they haven't been Gaelic- speaking for centuries (or more).

You seem quite sure about this. :) I don't doubt your statements,


Probably all scholars who work on Gaelic are sure about this too, it's not my own statement, you can read that in all books about Scottish Gaelic...

but do you know of anywhere I could read further about this? I love historical linguistics and etymology and the like.


COLL., Stair na Gaeilge, in ómós do Phádraig Ó Fiannachta, Roinn na Sean-Ghaeilge, Coláiste Phádraig, Maynooth, 1994
COLL., The Celtic languages, éd. M.Ball, Routledge, London, 1993
HENDERSON, G., The Norse Influence on Celtic Scotland, Mac Lehose, Glasgow, 1910
O’RAHILLY, T.F., Irish Dialects Past and Present, with Chapters on Scottish and Manx, DIAS, Dublin, 1932 rééd. 1988
RENAUD, J., Les Vikings et les Celtes, Ouest-France Université, Rennes 1992
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

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Re: (Pre-)aspiration

Postby deardron » 2010-02-03, 22:31

Yes, I would think that the Sc.Gaelic preaspiration is of Nordic origin.

Preaspiration did exist in Shetland Norn, or at least in some of Norse words in the dialect of Shetland, according to the dictionary of Shetland Norn.

Preaspiration also exists in some Norwegian and Swedish dialects, although not always as clean as in Icelandic and Faroese.

Getting back to Scotland, let me remind you that in the Hebrides there used to be a strong Norse presence until Gaels and Gaelic became dominating there ca. 4-5 centuries ago. In North Scotland there were Norse-speaking areas before they were converted into Gaelic or Scots about the same time. So there's a strong Norse substratum in today's Scottish Gaelic and it seems logical that some of the Norse phonetic features are still alive in Gaelic pronunciation.

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pronunciation.

Postby philmikki » 2010-07-01, 18:53

I need help with the pronunciation of Bás no Beatha!

Here is what I think: Bahs no Bee-aah (Does the B have more of a Vh sound?)
Help Please.
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Re: pronunciation.

Postby Quevenois » 2010-07-01, 20:55

Do you want it in Irish or in Scottish Gaelic ? Because this forum is about Scottish Gaelic (see the flag).
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

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Re: pronunciation.

Postby philmikki » 2010-07-04, 3:37

I would like it in Scottish Gaelic.
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Re: pronunciation.

Postby Quevenois » 2010-07-04, 4:22

It would be spelt Bàs neo Beatha
and pronounced roughly "bahs nyo beh-huh".
The b's sound more like p's without aspiration, as in English "span" for example. The à is a long a.
אַ שפראַך איז אַ דיאַלעקט מיט אַן אַרמײ און פֿלאָט

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Re: pronunciation.

Postby philmikki » 2010-07-05, 18:08

thanks :D
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Pronunciation?

Postby Korppi » 2011-06-28, 5:04

Hi all,

I'm a complete beginner with Scots gaelic and am working hard to understand pronunciation, but I'm not very far. I was hoping maybe someone would be willing to phonetically write out how to pronounce one of my favorite sayings:

"Tha gliocas an ceann an fhitich."

I'm also wondering if fitheach is another spelling for fhitich? Pronounced the same way?

Thank you so much and I apologize if this kind of thing is annoying. I would just love to be able to actually say this "saying".

~Jenn

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Re: Pronunciation?

Postby ceid donn » 2011-06-28, 20:10

Gaelic contains sounds not found in English, so technically, it cannot be written phonetically according to English phonetics.

Most beginners start with audios files, like found on BBC Alba's section for learning Gaelic, and a guide to pronunciation like what you'd find in the beginner of most Gaelic textbooks, like Teach Yourself Gaelic. There's also Akerbeltz's online pronunciation guide.

"Fithich" is the genitive form of "fitheach." And no, they are not pronounced quite the same. Hence why they are spelled differently. The slenderization of the final vowel in some words is indicative of the genitive form for those words. But any standard pronunciation guide would cover those vowel sounds.

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Re: Pronunciation?

Postby Korppi » 2011-06-28, 21:13

Excellent, thank you so much for the help!!!

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pronunciation: 'adhar' (sky, air)

Postby wolfgirl » 2012-01-24, 11:18

Hi there!

How does one pronounce 'adhar' (meaning sky or air)?

Thank you :)

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Pronounciation help - Saorsa

Postby SmoothieGirl » 2012-02-27, 10:51

Sorry but its a very simple question. I have read two or three different variations on the pronounciation of the Scottish Gaelic word, saorsa. Its starting to drive me mad and I want to be very accurate in the sound.

Can anyone provide a phonetic translation?

So far I've seen 'shoresha', 'seer-sha' and 'shore sa'.

Thank you :D

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Re: Pronounciation help - Saorsa

Postby SmoothieGirl » 2012-03-01, 10:04

Anyone?

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Re: Pronounciation help - Saorsa

Postby SmoothieGirl » 2012-03-03, 6:14

Bump :whistle:

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Re: Pronounciation help - Saorsa

Postby linguoboy » 2012-03-03, 15:12

You know, you might be better off simply PMing/emailing one of the Gaelic-speakers directly. Clearly they aren't perusing this forum much any more, but they'd probably notice a personal appeal.

Part of the reason you've come across variant pronunciations, btw, is that there's dialectal variation in Gaelic, so not all speakers will say this word the same way. In Irish, for instance, ao can be either /eː/ or /iː/ depending on the dialect.
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Re: Pronounciation help - Saorsa

Postby SmoothieGirl » 2012-03-04, 6:52

Thanks linguoboy, might just do that. :)

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Re: Pronounciation help - Saorsa

Postby Alasdair » 2012-03-16, 23:46

Saorsa - [soor-sih]

The broad 'S's do not cause a "sh" sound as many people think.
Tha mi fileanta sa Bheurla agus cha mhòr sa Ghàidhlig. Cuideachd, tha mi ag ionnsachadh na Breatannais. Leig fios dhomh ma nì mi mearachdan! I speak Fluent English and Gaelic. I am also learning Breton. Let me know if I make mistakes!

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Re: pronunciation: 'adhar' (sky, air)

Postby Alasdair » 2012-03-16, 23:47

It is pronounced like the English word "are".
Tha mi fileanta sa Bheurla agus cha mhòr sa Ghàidhlig. Cuideachd, tha mi ag ionnsachadh na Breatannais. Leig fios dhomh ma nì mi mearachdan! I speak Fluent English and Gaelic. I am also learning Breton. Let me know if I make mistakes!


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