księżyc - Gaelainn

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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2020-05-21, 10:28

linguoboy wrote:It could be san, but not sa in this case because uisce starts with a vowel.

Oh, right. I forgot about the added n before vowels. Thanks for reminding me.

(I'm not sure if they were being deliberately archaic by including insan in some of the examples or if it was still found among older dialect speakers at the time TYI was published.)

Perhaps it's like their usage of the dative plural ending in some exercises then? They do seem keen to teach some archaisms in TYI.

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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2020-05-21, 14:26

księżycowy wrote:
linguoboy wrote:It could be san, but not sa in this case because uisce starts with a vowel.

Oh, right. I forgot about the added n before vowels. Thanks for reminding me.

It's not being "added"; it's just not being dropped. The spelling sa simply reflects the fact that the /n/ of an is deleted before many consonants, particularly fricatives. But the underlying form of the article is still /ən/.
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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2020-05-21, 14:34

My terminology was a bit awkward, but you know what I meant. :P

Though, it's interesting to note the phonological observations. I think I was starting to pick up on that on the audio.

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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2020-05-21, 16:20

księżycowy wrote:My terminology was a bit awkward, but you know what I meant.

I did, but I think it's important to be clear about terminology because n-insertion is a thing in (Munster) Irish, just not in this case!
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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2020-05-21, 18:25

Good to know.
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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby silmeth » 2020-05-22, 8:55

Worth noting that when it’s written in full, it’s always ins an or insan (eg. ins an bhád, ins an chroí, etc.) with the ⟨n⟩ written, unlike the shortened sa without it.

That’s also unlike Scottish Gaelic where you write anns a’ or sa (anns a’ bhàta or sa bhàta) before lenited fricatives and anns an and san before unlenited consonants and vowels (san sgeul) – both short and long version lose the ⟨n⟩ in same contexts.
polszczyzna jest moją mową ojczystą (pl), Is Gaelainn na Mumhan atá á foghlaim agam (ga) ((ga-M)), mám, myslím, dobrou znalost češtiny, rozumím a něco mluvím (cs), Jeg lærer meg bokmål på Duolingo (no-nb) (og eg ville lære nynorsk ein gong (no-nn))

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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2020-05-22, 10:30

So, you couldn't have *insa, I gather. Or have I misread?

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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby silmeth » 2020-05-22, 10:35

księżycowy wrote:So, you couldn't have *insa, I gather. Or have I misread?

Yes, I’d say so.

At least I haven’t seen *insa, only insan or ins an. Probably because in the full version an is still treated as the definite article (and it also is always written in full in Irish: an bhean, not *a’ bhean or anything like it, even if it’s pronounced as /ə v′an/ without the /n/).
polszczyzna jest moją mową ojczystą (pl), Is Gaelainn na Mumhan atá á foghlaim agam (ga) ((ga-M)), mám, myslím, dobrou znalost češtiny, rozumím a něco mluvím (cs), Jeg lærer meg bokmål på Duolingo (no-nb) (og eg ville lære nynorsk ein gong (no-nn))

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Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2020-05-22, 16:06

silmeth wrote:Probably because in the full version an is still treated as the definite article (and it also is always written in full in Irish: an bhean, not *a’ bhean or anything like it, even if it’s pronounced as /ə v′an/ without the /n/).

That's what I was thinking as well.


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