księżyc - Gaelainn

Moderator: kevin

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-20, 10:28

I am curious which thread you were talking about Linguoboy. I'd like to see if Ciarán wrote anything of interest.
Last edited by księżycowy on 2018-03-20, 14:04, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 21982
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2018-03-20, 13:53

"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-20, 14:04

Ah! That thread!

For some odd reason I missed some of those comments.

Go raibh maith agat, a chara!

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-01, 22:33

I'm still trying to get the hang of elision in Irish. In principle I get the idea, but in practice it's not always so simple. Plus I'm still on the quest to refresh and further develop my understanding of Irish spelling, so I think I'll start transcribing the Irish to English exercises here. At least a few sentences anyway.

Here are a few from Lesson XIII, Exercise 31:
1. Tóg díom an mála so agus cuir i n-airde ar an lochta é.
/toːg dʲiːm əmaːləsə agʊs cirɪnardər əlochteː/

2. Tá uaigneas orthu ó imigh Máire uainn.
/tɑː uɪgʲnʲɪs orhoː imʲɪgʲ Mɑrʲɪ uɪŋʲ/

3. D'fhiafraigh an garda dhínn cad a bhí uainn.
/diărhɪg əgardə ɣiːŋ cadə viː uɪŋʲ/

I think I'll stop here for now. Correct away, Linguoboy.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 21982
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2018-05-02, 14:22

You're doing an odd mix of phonemic and phonetic transcription. Despite the slashes, I'm correcting toward more of a broad phonetic since I think that will be more useful.
księżycowy wrote:1. Tóg díom an mála so agus cuir i n-airde ar an lochta é.
/toːg dʲiːm əmɑːləsɔ agəs kirɪnɑːrdʲɛrʲ əlɔchteː/

2. Tá uaigneas orthu ó imigh Máire uainn.
/tɑː uːɪɟnʲɪs ɔrhoː imʲɪɟːɪ uɪŋʲ/

3. D'fhiafraigh an garda dhínn cad a bhí uainn.
/dʲiărhɪɟ ɪgɑːrdə jiːŋʲ də viː uːɪŋʲ/
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-02, 15:58

I think it's pretty clear I haven't done an IPA transcription in a while. :P

Go raibh maith agat, a Linguoboy!

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-02, 20:59

Let's try a few more from Exercise 31:
5. Do thaispeáin Seán dom an rothar nua atá aige.
/də həʃpʲɑːnʲ ʃɑːn dəm ərɔhər nuətɑːjgʲə/

6. Do chuamair go Cill Airne inné agus níor thánamair abhaile go dtí maidin inniu.
/də χuămɪrʲ gə kʲiːlʲɑːrʲnʲɪ neː ɑgəs nʲiːr hɑːnəmɪrʲ əvalʲə gədʲiː mɑdʲɪn ɪɲʲuv/
(Not sure, as far as the transcription is concerned, if I need both /ɲ/ and /ʲ/. Also, I clearly hear a break and the first full vowel of <agus> in this sentence.)

7. Fiafród de cad tá sé a dhéanamh.
/fʲɪərhoːdʲə cɑd tɑː ʃeː əjeːnəv/

An Lon Dubh
Posts: 54
Joined: 2013-03-17, 20:40
Gender: male
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby An Lon Dubh » 2018-05-15, 9:11

księżycowy wrote:7. Fiafród de cad tá sé a dhéanamh.
/fʲɪərhoːdʲə cɑd tɑː ʃeː əjeːnəv/

Just to note, in Cork this would be rare. "Cad tá sé á dhéanamh" being more common.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-15, 9:47

I don't get the distinction.... :hmm:
Isn't the sentence I posted just extending that you said was common?
(I.e. your sentence is "what is he doing?" where as the one I posted is "I'll ask him what he is doing.")

An Lon Dubh
Posts: 54
Joined: 2013-03-17, 20:40
Gender: male
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby An Lon Dubh » 2018-05-15, 10:06

8
księżycowy wrote:I don't get the distinction.... :hmm:
Isn't the sentence I posted just extending that you said was common?
(I.e. your sentence is "what is he doing?" where as the one I posted is "I'll ask him what he is doing.")

I'm focusing on the fragment "Cad tá sé a dhéanamh".

It would usually be "á" in Cork, rather than the standard "a".

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-15, 10:10

Ah, now I see the fada! Thanks for the clarification. :)

kevin
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: 2012-03-29, 11:07
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby kevin » 2018-05-15, 10:10

księżycowy wrote:I don't get the distinction.... :hmm:

"a" vs. "á", I think.

But I don't fully understand it either, I would have expected an indirect relative clause with "á", i.e. "cad a bhfuil sé á dheanamh".

Edit: Or possibly the passive one: "cad atá á dhéanamh aige"

An Lon Dubh
Posts: 54
Joined: 2013-03-17, 20:40
Gender: male
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby An Lon Dubh » 2018-05-15, 10:23

The indirect relative is rarely used in Munster, or rather is formed using "go".

An fear go bhfuil a mhac san ospidéal.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 21982
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby linguoboy » 2018-05-15, 14:33

księżycowy wrote:5. Do thaispeáin Seán dom an rothar nua atá aige.
/də hɪʃpʲɑːnʲ ʃɑːn dəm ərɔhər ntɑːjgʲə/

1. Taispeáin is normally pronounced with a slender initial, i.e. as if tispeáin. Shwa normally becomes shwi before a slender consonant in any case.
2. Nua in West Cork is monophthongal, i.e. as if spelled . (Meanwhile CO is pronounced /nuː/.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

An Lon Dubh
Posts: 54
Joined: 2013-03-17, 20:40
Gender: male
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby An Lon Dubh » 2018-06-10, 23:31

księżycowy wrote:I don't get the distinction.... :hmm:
Isn't the sentence I posted just extending that you said was common?
(I.e. your sentence is "what is he doing?" where as the one I posted is "I'll ask him what he is doing.")

I'm a bit of a dumbass, I only realised what was confusing about this there now.

Younger people in Cork tend to say "á" because they mix the Caighdeán:

Cad tá sé a dhéanamh

and the older Músgraí form:

Cad tá á dhéanamh aige

Older Músgraí speakers only use the latter.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-06-13, 12:02

I'm going to just throw an idea out there and see if it takes. :P

If anyone wants to get a study group going for Irish this is an open invitation. :)

I'd prefer to go through Teach Yourself Irish by Dillon and Ó Cróinín, and it can get a bit confusing learning different dialects and/or CO at the same time.

kevin
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: 2012-03-29, 11:07
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby kevin » 2018-06-14, 6:58

How would such a study group work in practice? Just everyone doing the same lessons around the same time, and then comparing exercise results etc. or would you actually meet (some form of a voice call?) and go through lessons together? Or something else entirely?

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-06-14, 9:15

I envision it more or less like we're doing it for Hokkien (viewtopic.php?f=50&t=53853). So basically the first option. But I'm open to other suggestions/ideas. Whatever your comfortable and willing to do. :)

And don't worry about me being on lesson 14, I need to go back and review some things anyway. :P

kevin
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1881
Joined: 2012-03-29, 11:07
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby kevin » 2018-06-14, 12:27

księżycowy wrote:I envision it more or less like we're doing it for Hokkien (viewtopic.php?f=50&t=53853). So basically the first option. But I'm open to other suggestions/ideas. Whatever your comfortable and willing to do. :)

Ok, I see. And that private Google Docs thing is where you actually put your exercises?

And don't worry about me being on lesson 14, I need to go back and review some things anyway. :P

Yeah, I'm afraid we'd have to start at lesson 1 or I would be lost with my Irish. :silly:

It wouldn't be wrong to learn a bit more about Munster (so I can actively avoid it :P), but I'm not sure if that's enough of a motivation for me to actually follow through. So while I'd like to join in at least occasionally, you'll probably want a third person in the group at least.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 11982
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: księżyc - Gaelainn

Postby księżycowy » 2018-06-14, 12:35

kevin wrote:Ok, I see. And that private Google Docs thing is where you actually put your exercises?

Actually that's a retype of Spoken Another Hokkien, not really exercises.

But we could come up with exercises to quiz each other. :P

It wouldn't be wrong to learn a bit more about Munster (so I can actively avoid it :P), but I'm not sure if that's enough of a motivation for me to actually follow through. So while I'd like to join in at least occasionally, you'll probably want a third person in the group at least.

Thats kind of the point in trying to start these up: motivating each other. :P (Whatever your reasons are for learning it. :lol: )

We can wait a day or two and see if anyone else wants to join.


Return to “Celtic Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest