Munster Irish Resources?

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księżycowy
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Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2009-12-25, 15:44

I'm quite interested in learning Munster Irish. Any good books for Munster? I do have the early Teach Yourself book, but I'd prefer something a little more recent and preferably with audio. Thanks.

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby linguoboy » 2009-12-30, 21:17

księżycowy wrote:I'm quite interested in learning Munster Irish. Any good books for Munster? I do have the early Teach Yourself book, but I'd prefer something a little more recent and preferably with audio. Thanks.

There's a Pimsleur course which teaches Munster Irish. Unfortunately, it's extremely basic; you won't learn more than tourist phrases, but at least your pronunciation of those will be much improved. Speaking Irish/An Ghaeilge Bheo, which has been discussed here recently, includes a wide variety of speakers, including several from Munster and--ZOMG NON-NATIVE IRISH ALERT--a couple of Americans.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-01, 19:19

linguoboy wrote:There's a Pimsleur course which teaches Munster Irish. Unfortunately, it's extremely basic; you won't learn more than tourist phrases, but at least your pronunciation of those will be much improved. Speaking Irish/An Ghaeilge Bheo, which has been discussed here recently, includes a wide variety of speakers, including several from Munster and--ZOMG NON-NATIVE IRISH ALERT--a couple of Americans.

Thanks. I'm guessing between my studying of Standard Irish, the Pimsleur and the old TYS book, I'll get a good start learning Munster Irish. Then later down the road I'll tackle Speaking Irish.

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby Quevenois » 2010-01-03, 17:43

You can also use the old Teach Yourself Irish (available as second-hand book, very cheap, on Abebooks.com).
And "An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne" -- it is written in Irish but I think you can use it anyway because it's easy to see where are the conjugations, the prepositions etc, even if you can't understand the commentaries yet.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-01-03, 22:00

Quevenois wrote:You can also use the old Teach Yourself Irish (available as second-hand book, very cheap, on Abebooks.com).
And "An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne" -- it is written in Irish but I think you can use it anyway because it's easy to see where are the conjugations, the prepositions etc, even if you can't understand the commentaries yet.

I already have the old Teach Yourself, but thanks for the suggestion.

I have seen the 'An Teanga Bheo: Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne.' I'll probably try to get that eventually. Though thanks for telling me it's written in Irish, I wasn't sure (though I did have my suspicions).

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby linguoboy » 2010-03-08, 17:40

This might be of use: http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/my-irish-english-dictionary.

The vocabulary is drawn from the aforementioned Dillon/Ó Cróinín book, An Ghaeilge by Aidan Doyle and Edmund Grossman (a Polish-language textbook of Munster Irish), and Ua Laoghaire's Mo sgéal féin.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-08, 19:49

Interesting link, thanks. Alas, I've put my learning of Munster Irish on hold (mainly due to resources). I've desided to learn Connemara Irish first via "Learning Irish" and "Colloquial Irish." Though all-in-all it's fine, 'cause I'm planning on learning all three major dialects of Irish (along w/standard Irish) anyway.

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-15, 14:42

This might be a little of topic, but I was curious if any dialect oriented dictionaries exist (in print preferably, but due to my assumption of their scarcity, online is ok too). By this I mean dictionaries that use only dialectal words, not the official standard (in case anyone's confused). I already have the two huge standard Irish dictionaries, so I was just curious about any for the three major dialects.

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby Quevenois » 2010-03-15, 22:57

Not really, there are vocabularies of dialects in which only the "specific" local words and idioms are mentioned, but the basic words are missing, and there's no english(irish side.

I plan to make basic dictionaries of dialects (say Corca Dhuibhne Cois Fhairrge and Gweedore/Rann na Feirste).
You can find an old dictionary of Muskerry (West Cork) Irish for free online in PDF on Archive.org.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-16, 9:49

That's too bad, though I can't say I'm surprised. I did check out that dictionary that linguoboy linked to, so at least I have something.

I'd be interested to see you dictionaries after you get them done :wink:

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby Quevenois » 2010-03-16, 12:41

I'll tell you.
I hope I'll find an editor... many Irish editors don't want to edit any book that isn't in the standard, I dunno why, if they hate diversity or if they think the readers are too stupid to understand non-standard Irish or something else... Anyway. Not editing anything in the genuine dialects just weakens the Gaeltacht, because some native speakers think their native Irish isn't good since nobody uses it in books. Some decide not to teach the language to their children for that reason... No comment.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-16, 16:04

Quevenois wrote:I'll tell you.
I hope I'll find an editor... many Irish editors don't want to edit any book that isn't in the standard, I dunno why, if they hate diversity or if they think the readers are too stupid to understand non-standard Irish or something else... Anyway. Not editing anything in the genuine dialects just weakens the Gaeltacht, because some native speakers think their native Irish isn't good since nobody uses it in books. Some decide not to teach the language to their children for that reason... No comment.

This doesn't surprise me either. It's the same way with all of the recent Irish language textbooks lately. They (mostly) focus on the Official standard, and I think that sucks to a degree. I do think that the official dialect has a place in Ireland, but it should not uproot the dialects, as the standard came after the dialects, and is nothing more then a conglomeration of the dialects!

An interesting question/assumption, no one actually speaks the official standard right? If one where inclined to speak Irish they would speak whatever dialect they know (so long as they know one) right?

And I agree with what you were saying with the 'weakening of the Gaeltacht' and the like. It's a shame that people don't take more pride in their language (dialectally), especially on in official sense. Hell I'm only part Irish, and I'm trying to keep the language alive! Irish seems to be on shaky ground for it's future and survival.

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby Quevenois » 2010-03-16, 20:09

An interesting question/assumption, no one actually speaks the official standard right?


Well, maybe some teachers speak it, and some learners who've never been in the Gaeltacht.

If one where inclined to speak Irish they would speak whatever dialect they know (so long as they know one) right?


Aye, very few native speakers try to speak something that isn't their dialect. Actually many Gaeltacht speakers don't like "school Irish", to say the least.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-16, 21:44

If someone where inclined (for whatever reason) to speak standard Irish (like say, a learner, like you referenced) I imagine (aside from a few strange looks) the locals would be able to understand them, correct?
(And no, I'm not planing on doing this, just asking out of curiosity. That's why I'm learning a dialect first, before learning Standard Irish. :twisted: )

Also, if someone didn't know the dialectal term of something, would it be odd for them to use the Standard Irish form (with correct dialect pronunciation)? This is somewhat bugging me, due to our earlier discussion of the lack of dialectal dictionaries . . . :cry:

Go raibh maith agat! 8-)

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby Quevenois » 2010-03-16, 22:56

If someone where inclined (for whatever reason) to speak standard Irish (like say, a learner, like you referenced) I imagine (aside from a few strange looks) the locals would be able to understand them, correct?


Normally they would, except if the learners pronounces really badly and/or uses too many neologisms...

(And no, I'm not planing on doing this, just asking out of curiosity. That's why I'm learning a dialect first, before learning Standard Irish. :twisted: )


Actually if you know a dialect, I think you'll be able to understand Standard Irish.

Also, if someone didn't know the dialectal term of something, would it be odd for them to use the Standard Irish form (with correct dialect pronunciation)? This is somewhat bugging me, due to our earlier discussion of the lack of dialectal dictionaries . . . :cry:


I think it wouldn't be odd if you don't use too many words that don't exist in the dialect. Of course, the Gaeltacht speaker you're talking to will immediately know you're not from there, but anyway. You can't know everything about a dialect when you're still a learner... the more you learn about your dialect, the more authentic your Irish will be, of course. But if the Gaeltacht speaker hears you're trying to speak his/her dialect I think (s)he well be happy.
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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-03-16, 23:12

Quevenois wrote:Actually if you know a dialect, I think you'll be able to understand Standard Irish.

Indeed. I had though this myself, I just wanted to learn a dialect so I could speak more authentic Irish. Of course learning any dialect of Irish will help you with standard Irish and vice versa.


I think it wouldn't be odd if you don't use too many words that don't exist in the dialect. Of course, the Gaeltacht speaker you're talking to will immediately know you're not from there, but anyway. You can't know everything about a dialect when you're still a learner... the more you learn about your dialect, the more authentic your Irish will be, of course. But if the Gaeltacht speaker hears you're trying to speak his/her dialect I think (s)he well be happy.

Well put! Go raibh maith agat! (again! :) )

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-12-23, 17:49

Just stumbled across the actual audio to the early TY Irish textbook!
http://www.iub.edu/~celtie/irish_archive.html
Last edited by księżycowy on 2010-12-26, 1:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby silmeth » 2010-12-26, 0:37

After looking at your signature and nickname, księżycowy, I think you might be interested. There is also Polish handbook for Munster Irish called "An Ghaeilge" by Aidan Doyle and Edmund Gussman, and it's only 12,09 zł (~ $4). I dunno how with availability outside Poland, though.

http://www.wydawnictwokul.lublin.pl/skl ... ucts_id=50
polszczyzna jest moją mową ojczystą (pl), Is Gaelainn na Mumhan atá á foghlaim agam (ga) ((ga-M)), mám, myslím, dobrou znalost češtiny, rozumím a něco mluvím (cs), Jeg lærer meg bokmål på Duolingo (no-nb) (og eg ville lære nynorsk ein gong (no-nn))

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby księżycowy » 2010-12-26, 1:25

silmeth wrote:There is also Polish handbook for Munster Irish called "An Ghaeilge" by Aidan Doyle and Edmund Gussman, and it's only 12,09 zł (~ $4).

Yes, I've heard of the book. Though my skill in Polish is quite lacking at the moment :oops: , so I haven't given any thought to seriously trying to buy it yet. Thanks for the thought though! :)
Thanks for the link too!

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Re: Munster Irish Resources?

Postby linguoboy » 2010-12-29, 15:08

księżycowy wrote:Just stumbled across the actual audio to the early TY Irish textbook!
http://www.iub.edu/~celtie/irish_archive.html

Wow, I can't believe you found that! The audio is terrible, though; I could only understand every other word in the vocabulary list, and I know that book backwards and forwards.
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