Go Gaels consider themselves ethnically different?

[Galloglaich]

To start off with I'll say I just saw a typo in this thread's name, and I have no idea how it got there because I genuinely can touch-type

I've been wondering about this for some time. Since the cultural division between Lowland and Highland was so long ago, and the cultures since have been so different, and the fact that, from what I have read of the annals and similar, it seems the Gaels have always seen themselves as different to the Scots, do Gaelic-speakers now or people with Highland extraction still consider themselves different?
I know a few that do, but I was wondering whether this is common. I don't see why the Gaels wouldn't, but, hey, I'm only one by ancestry so I wouldn't know

If anyone could tell me, please...well, thanks

[Eoghan]

I am part Gael thanks to my father's family, but as I live in Sweden I'm not really sure if I'm the right one to answer this question, but whatever, I'll give it a go. Being a Gael has always been of great importance to me, I'm really the only one of us in Sweden still trying to use the language, apart from standard phrases such as "hi, how do you do" etc.

I guess I emphasize being part Scottish Gaelic when I'm in Sweden, and being part Swedish when I'm in Scotland. The thing is my Gaelic is so bad, I always feel so bad when I don't get things or know how to say a certain thing, and, which I guess is unusual, my writing is better than my spoken production and interaction, mainly because I really don't have someone to speak Gaelic with in Gothenburg...

Anyway, I do believe many Gaels sort of "grade" other people; Native speaking Gaels being on top of the scale, followed by people with various levels of Gàidhlig, Irish and Manx speaking Gaels, Scots in General, Welshmen and, somewhere way down, the English...

I actually had to visit an Òspadal nan Eileanan on Lewis during the summer of 2007 and I was treated before the Englishman present... He had arrived way earlier than me and was probably in greater need than I was, I needed something against my back pains but because I said hello to the nurse in Gaelic, explaining the fact that I was from Sweden (she responded quite amazed with a lovely "There's Gaelic with you!?") she served me tea and biscuits and told me how happy she was to hear about diaspora-Gaels trying to use the language, and I ended up not paying for the drugs I was handed, and during the time I stayed in Steòrnabhagh she always stopped me whenever we saw each other in town

The Englishman was still there when I left, so I guess there's a truth behind my guess, Gaels really do see some people as better than others

Being Gaelic is something rather important for most Gaels, I guess, but, I might be wrong though, probably even more for Diaspora-Gaels... Maybe Nighean-neònach could say anything about this...

Reading through what I've just written, I'm not quite sure I've really answered your question... Weeeell

[Galloglaich]

It seems to me you may know some of my friends personally

And you've sort of answered my question. Basically I want to know if you get Gaelic-speakers who treat the Scots as an entirely different ethnic group or not. I'd imagine there's some, but I'm not sure.

[nighean-neonach]

This is an interesting question, and I think it can't be answered in general, as people have different opinions on this.
For one thing, there is a sort of Highland/Hebridean ethnicity, many people there look different than in the rest of Scotland and Britain. When my husband came with me to the Western Isles for the first time, he said, "hey, lots of women here look like you" - meaning, dark-haired, pale-skinned, blue-eyed, slender.
Now, that's not directly connected to Gaelic, I suppose it's rather the result of a very specific mixture of ethnic groups which have been settling those areas for the past few thousands of years

You will find lots of people in the Highlands and Islands who do not consider themselves anything but "British". Now, that's not really an ethnicity, it's a rather pragmatic national identity. Many elderly Gaels (or people with a Gaelic family background) are sort of ashamed of their Gaelic roots, because for them "Gael" means something like "a clueless person from a remote islands who had difficulties adapting to the mainstream society when trying to earn a living in a place like Glasgow". Others are quite self-conscious about being Gaelic, but I think most see it as a cultural rather than an ethnic thing.

Then you get those people from the USA who are awfully proud of their "Gaelic ancestors" and who are completely convinced of their own Gaelicness (which entitles them, among other things, to immediate tattoo translation help on internet forums). That's something many people in Scotland can't really understand, although there is a strong sense of heritage, genealogy, local community, etc. especially in the traditionally Gaelic-speaking areas.

So, it's a complex topic, because ethnicity, language, culture, and "bureaucratic" sense of identity are not necessarily consistent with each other. This is not a specifically Gaelic thing, though, it applies to most people in Europe, I'd say.

Personally, I know that my ethnicity is a totally mixed up thing, and I think it doesn't really mean much to me in terms of identity. Culturally, I feel neither German nor British. I do relate to the regional/local culture of the Rheinland where I have spent the biggest part of my life so far, and to the Gaelic culture of the Hebrides as well.

[MacCubbon]

I know my reply is tad late, but I feel like I would to offer an opinion. I would like to state it's a question of personal choice, to say that gaels are an ethnolinguistic group, they exist today... Of course. People sharing a common ancestry, mutually intelligible languages, mythologies, religion, heritage, tradition, cuisine and other component's of an identity, of course. Genetically do they exist, of course they do, where? Isle of Man, parts of Scotland, Ireland and Novo Scotia have the biggest communities. With todays standards of genetic mapping and grouping, theres scientific evidence to support such a claim. Does that exclude other ethnicities from being gaels!? Of course not! The term means more than just genetics, it's universal in which we can all belong to a modern community of language and culture and be united.

Now I understand how people will want inclusion in regards to genetics, that the gael identity is not only of ancestry but of a descended modern ethnic group. Is it morally wrong? No! Fundamentally no, being Caucasian in this instance is a bit of a tricky consideration, considering the awful and undeniable past we have of white supremacy. But and this is a big but... Being a gael has no connection with a supremacist identity, that's just beyond ridiculous.These people exist in every culture, every ethnicity and truly they do not belong in society.

That aside a person has the right to identify themselves with, and to any ethnicity that is scientifically proven to exist. Now I have seen some people debate the fact that no-one can be 100% gael, therefore it cannot exist and the ideal that someone is a gael in modern society is preposterous. Well of course.... hardly anyone is 100% of a singular ethnicity, that applies to probably around 97% of the worlds ethnicities. In North America for example if someone is 1/8 of Apache descent, it's the individuals choice if they choose to identify as Apache. The federation welcomes those of descent with open arms, because their focus is that of the people, culture, history and the identity.

The same can easily be done with the modern gael ethnicity, it really doesn't matter what mix you are, if you're a bit gael and you want to be gael... guess what... you are, skin colour really doesn't matter in being a gael. Furthermore, it could be argued that term gael is relative to native/proficient speakers of the gaels languages. I know a fair few people who speak the good languages better than me, do they consider themselves gael? Not one, but they refer to it as our language, that... that is a beautiful thing. With the decline of the gaels languages today, we need to focus more on retaining our culture. As once the lanaguage is lost, everything else ultimately follows.

I would just like to add, that it is in our nature to disregard the importance of the gael culture. This has happened historically and recently in Scotland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. We were turned on ourselves our names, dress, languages outlawed and punishable by death. Historic ethnic cleansing (yes it did actually happen to the gaels), suppression, oppression, supplanted groups, numerous and numerous of factors. My grandfathers generation were told that the gael languages of Scotland, Ireland and Isle or man were "evil" or "uncivilised and useless" and that they were never a "real language". This is a product of systematic persecution thats lasted around a 1000 years, truth is we need pur languages.

I'm a gael of manx, west coast irish, west island scottish and northern irish descent.