Questions ~Æ

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 2961
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-03, 15:33

Is maith liom é sin a chloisteáil! :)

Æren wrote:Foghlaimím Gaeilge arís


The simple present isn't used as much in Irish as in some other languages, here I would use the present continuous "Táim (or Tá mé) ag foghlaim (na) Gaeilge arís".

Æren wrote:le aon cara.


When counting things in Irish, if you want to say "one thing" you use the word "amháin" after the noun you are counting, so "cara" = (a) friend, "cara amháin" - one friend. You can use "aon" before as well if you want to emphasise that it's just one friend, so "aon chara amháin" = "just one friend" or "a single friend". As Irish doesn't have an indefinite article, you don't really need to use the number here, you can just say "cara" (although, the most idiomatic way to phrase this IMO is "le mo chara" = with my friend, or "le cara liom" = with a friend of mine (lit. with friend with-me).

Æren wrote:Úsáidimid an leabhar TY Irish.


An seaneagrán nó an nua-eagrán?

User avatar
Æren
Posts: 1826
Joined: 2006-07-17, 18:22
Real Name: Ivan
Gender: male
Location: Sofia
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-03, 16:30

Go raibh maith agat as an ceartú!

We (I actually, I've just got to know that he has switched to another book) use two editions: the newer one from around 2010 and one from around 1999. I have ordered a second-hand copy of the latter.
:<3: [flag=]pt [/flag] [flag=]es-ES [/flag] [flag=]fr [/flag]
:D [flag=]uk [/flag] [flag=]no[/flag] [flag=]lt[/flag] [flag=]de-AT[/flag]
:? [flag=]fa [/flag] [flag=]tl[/flag] [flag=]tr [/flag] [flag=]cs[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]he [/flag]
:para: [flag=]ir [/flag] [flag=]hu [/flag]

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 20353
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-04, 4:22

Ciarán12 wrote:The simple present isn't used as much in Irish as in some other languages, here I would use the present continuous "Táim (or Tá mé) ag foghlaim (na) Gaeilge arís".

Yeah, as in English, the simple present tends to have habitual meaning (except with verbs of thought or perception), and that doesn't quite fit with the adverb arís.

Æren wrote:le aon cara.

1. h is used to eliminate hiatus after le, i.e. le haon.
2. aon lenits non-dental obstruents, i.e. le haon chara.
3. Except in counting, aon has the meaning of "any" or "same". Thus aon chara is "any friend", not "one friend". Compare:

aon chara "any friend" (or "same friend" if you'd mentioned one earlier)
cara amháin "one friend"
aon chara amháin "only friend" (e.g. an t-aon chara amháin atá agam "the only friend I have")
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Æren
Posts: 1826
Joined: 2006-07-17, 18:22
Real Name: Ivan
Gender: male
Location: Sofia
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-08, 21:50

Thank you both for the comments!
I am still in the very starting phase, though the horizons are seemingly getting wider, more annoying mistakes are probably coming ahead :D

Anyway, this time I come with two issues:
1. Have anyone had a glimps on the Duolingo beta-course. I am using it, but I think the pronunciation offered is not very native. I hardly hear the broad consonants, whereas I notice the strong verlarization when I check in Forvo.

2. Having learned some words for time, I couldn't resist to translating the "I've got that summer time sadness" :D So, I guessed for "Tá an brón an samhraidh seo agam"
:roll:
:<3: [flag=]pt [/flag] [flag=]es-ES [/flag] [flag=]fr [/flag]
:D [flag=]uk [/flag] [flag=]no[/flag] [flag=]lt[/flag] [flag=]de-AT[/flag]
:? [flag=]fa [/flag] [flag=]tl[/flag] [flag=]tr [/flag] [flag=]cs[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]he [/flag]
:para: [flag=]ir [/flag] [flag=]hu [/flag]

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 20353
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-08, 22:18

Æren wrote:2. Having learned some words for time, I couldn't resist to translating the "I've got that summer time sadness" :D So, I guessed for "Tá an brón an samhraidh seo agam"

Not bad for a first try. There are a few minor tweaks, but first a very basic one, one that you need to get firmly in your head sooner rather than later because it's one of the most basic rules of Irish syntax: Only one definite article per genitive noun construction. So, for instance, deireadh an tsamhraidh "the end of [the] summer", not *an deireadh an tsamhraidh.

(Minor point #1: Some nouns beginning in s take a t-prefix after the article. The basic rule is that this happens when there would normally be lenition. Historically, the form of the article was ind. Lenition turns /s/ to [h] and, in this instance, that combined with /d/ to yield [tʰ], now spelled ts. Masculine nouns lenite in the genitive, so an tsamhraid "of the summer".)

(Minor point #2: seo means "this". "That" is sin. There's no agreement, so brón an tsamhraidh sin could be read either "that summer sadness" or "the sadness of that summer". The only way I know to force the interpretation you want is an brón sin den tsamhradh, which looks a bit awkward.)

(Minor point 3#: In general, emotions are "on" you rather than "at" you. So Tá brón an samhraidh sin orm.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Æren
Posts: 1826
Joined: 2006-07-17, 18:22
Real Name: Ivan
Gender: male
Location: Sofia
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-09, 0:34

Thanks a lot!

I was thinking a bit over the basic rule you mentioned and the last point. About the former, I didn't actually know any rules about the genitive (except for the slendering of the final consonant, which, frankly said, I don't hear at all since I don't hear the velarization in Auslaut, too), the article and the lenition of the masc. nouns so I really improvised.
About the latter, I wondered and was curious about which construction would 'prevail': the one with ar for expressing emotions or the one with ag for possessiveness.

A question about a detail: why is the lenited s after t from the def. article not written as a really lenited one (sh)? Is there any historical reason (probably some dialects did lenite the s?) or it is just an orthographic choice?
:<3: [flag=]pt [/flag] [flag=]es-ES [/flag] [flag=]fr [/flag]
:D [flag=]uk [/flag] [flag=]no[/flag] [flag=]lt[/flag] [flag=]de-AT[/flag]
:? [flag=]fa [/flag] [flag=]tl[/flag] [flag=]tr [/flag] [flag=]cs[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]he [/flag]
:para: [flag=]ir [/flag] [flag=]hu [/flag]

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 20353
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-09, 2:17

Æren wrote:A question about a detail: why is the lenited s after t from the def. article not written as a really lenited one (sh)? Is there any historical reason (probably some dialects did lenite the s?) or it is just an orthographic choice?

Just leniting it wouldn't show the proper pronunciation. There are cases where initial s is lenited to sh. But since there's no article before it, it's pronounced [h], not [tʰ], e.g. tá sé ina shamhradh "It's like summer" (lit. "it's in its summer").

BTW, samhradh and samhraidh sound the same in some dialects (e.g. Cois Fhairrge) but in others there's a definite contrast. In Munster, for instance, unstressed -adh is [ə] (as in Connacht) but slender dh is [ɟ], so the contrast is [ˈsˠauɾˠə] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠɪɟ]. In Ulster, unstressed -adh is [u] but -aidh is [i], so it's [ˈsˠauɾˠu] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠi]
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 2961
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-10, 13:38

linguoboy wrote:BTW, samhradh and samhraidh sound the same in some dialects (e.g. Cois Fhairrge) but in others there's a definite contrast. In Munster, for instance, unstressed -adh is [ə] (as in Connacht) but slender dh is [ɟ], so the contrast is [ˈsˠauɾˠə] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠɪɟ]. In Ulster, unstressed -adh is [u] but -aidh is [i], so it's [ˈsˠauɾˠu] vs [ˈsˠauɾˠi]


And of course, as usual, I have a mixed pronunciation where I contrast it as [ˈsˠauɾˠə] - [ˈsˠauɾˠi]. Is that a valid pair in any of the trad. dialects?

Agus ar ndóigh, mar is gnách, tá fuimniú measctha ar mo chuid cainte, déarfainnse [ˈsˠauɾˠə] - [ˈsˠauɾˠi]. An bhfuil canúint thradaisiúnta ann ina bhfuil sé sin i gceart?

User avatar
Æren
Posts: 1826
Joined: 2006-07-17, 18:22
Real Name: Ivan
Gender: male
Location: Sofia
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-01-18, 13:23

Dia daoibh!

I was thinking yesterday, whether one could say in Irish "Tá laethanta dá leithéid ann" for 'there're such days'.

Also, do you know some other expressions which could be used for expressing similar sense (like 'it happens', etc)?
:<3: [flag=]pt [/flag] [flag=]es-ES [/flag] [flag=]fr [/flag]
:D [flag=]uk [/flag] [flag=]no[/flag] [flag=]lt[/flag] [flag=]de-AT[/flag]
:? [flag=]fa [/flag] [flag=]tl[/flag] [flag=]tr [/flag] [flag=]cs[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]he [/flag]
:para: [flag=]ir [/flag] [flag=]hu [/flag]

User avatar
Ciarán12
Posts: 2961
Joined: 2011-12-31, 15:23
Real Name: Ciarán
Gender: male
Location: Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin)
Country: IE Ireland (Éire / Ireland)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-18, 15:14

I'm not great at this kind of thing in Irish either, but that doesn't actually sound half bad to me. I might say "laethanta den sórt/cineál sin", not sure why though.

My first thought was to say "Is mar sin (atá) an saol", when I looked that up I found the phrase "is mar sin a chasann rothaí móra an tsaoil" (lit. "That's how the big wheels of life turn").

User avatar
Æren
Posts: 1826
Joined: 2006-07-17, 18:22
Real Name: Ivan
Gender: male
Location: Sofia
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby Æren » 2015-10-17, 19:59

Dia daoibh!

Scríobh mé cuplá abairt agus níl fhios agam cé acu is ceart siad:

    Beidh gach rud go breá
    Tá réiteach do ghach deacracht.
    Tá rud éigin álainn ag gach duine.
    Beidh mé ag foghlaim Breatnais chomh maith.

Go raibh maith agat agus oíche mhaith :)
:<3: [flag=]pt [/flag] [flag=]es-ES [/flag] [flag=]fr [/flag]
:D [flag=]uk [/flag] [flag=]no[/flag] [flag=]lt[/flag] [flag=]de-AT[/flag]
:? [flag=]fa [/flag] [flag=]tl[/flag] [flag=]tr [/flag] [flag=]cs[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]he [/flag]
:para: [flag=]ir [/flag] [flag=]hu [/flag]

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 20353
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Questions ~Æ

Postby linguoboy » 2015-10-17, 21:28

Æren wrote:Scríobh mé cúpla abairt agus níl fhios agam cé acu is an bhfuil siad ceart siad:

    Beidh gach rud go breá
    Tá réiteach do ghach deacracht.
    Tá rud éigin álainn ag gach duine.
    Beidh mé ag foghlaim Breatnaise chomh maith.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


Return to “Celtic Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests