ILE's Irish Questions

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ILE's Irish Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2008-08-12, 20:43

I have a couple for you.

1) How do you pronounce the r? Teach yourself does a pretty crap job at explaining it, since it refuses to use IPA. At least if it was IPA I could look it up.

2) How do you pronounce slender <n, s, ph, th, bh, mh>?

3) Teach Yourself Irish says that <l, n> are dental. Is that true?

And the last...

4) What is the IPA for <o>?

That is all. Thank you. :)
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Quevenois » 2008-08-13, 2:37

Ok.
Last edited by Quevenois on 2010-11-02, 1:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2008-08-14, 6:32

Quevenois wrote:Well, in today's dialects, normally there are 2 sorts of r's : one that is an alveolar tap (as tt in "better" in some American dialects), the other one is a strange sound, halfway between the alveolar tap we've just mentioned, a z sound and a s sound as in "pleasure". It's similar to the Czech sound ř.


Okay. How are they used? Like is one broad and the other slender, or do the represent the sound of the rhotic in two separate dialects?

Slender s is just as English sh.

So slender and broad <s> are both [S]?

Well, all this talk of dialects has got me thinking, where can I go to find a phonological breakdown of each of the different Irish dialects?

Teach Yourself Irish is thoroughly confusing me. :evil: In the introduction, it informs me that I will be learning the Standard Irish dialect (that no one SPEAKS.) Then in the Pronunciation section, it gives me all this information about different dialects. I don't want to sound like I'm from all of Ireland! I just want to pick, one.

Okay. Rant over. :D
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby nighean-neonach » 2008-08-14, 6:47

ILuvEire wrote:
Slender s is just as English sh.

So slender and broad <s> are both [S]?


Nope, slender s, as Quevenois said, is like English "sh".

Can't help you with the dialects. As far as I know, all the modern teaching materials try to teach you Standard Irish while giving you information about the various dialects - instead of teaching one specific dialect. Maybe that's a bit of a problem, especially for solitary learners who are not in contact with Irish speakers.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2008-08-14, 8:24

Well, I have contact with a few Irish speakers, but they are all just as confused as I am. :(
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Quevenois » 2008-08-14, 11:36

Ok.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby nighean-neonach » 2008-08-14, 13:18

Quevenois wrote:(and English, because most non-native speakers' pronunciation is heavily influenced by English).


That's what I've always thought... Most Irish speakers I have heard sounded very English to me.

and Now You're Talking teaches Ulster Irish (with several Standard Irish features).


That's good to know. I would like to get back to studying a bit of Irish later this year, and I've found that I understand Ulster Irish better than the other dialects :) I was looking around for any summer school or similar institution in Northern Ireland, but there doesn't seem to be much available.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Supreemio » 2008-08-14, 13:40

Yep some learners speak Irish and it sounds like English but with different words this is because they don't master the sounds of Irish and they are influenced by English, the same is with Breton when learners pronounce it with a heavy French accent, the Breton online radios are examples some people say Breton sounds like French that is nonsense they just listen to learners.

Hector is an example, he speaks Irish with a very heavy English accent... When people speak Irish like this it hurts my ears. :roll:

John Ghráinne is one of the Irish speakers we should follow his pronunciation is absolutely awesome.

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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Quevenois » 2008-08-14, 16:31

Ok.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Supreemio » 2008-08-14, 18:19

Cathal Ó Searcaigh is good too and a very good poet he is from Gortahork (he is a little strange though :P) It is said that he is one of the best Gaeltacht poets today.

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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Supreemio » 2008-08-14, 20:35

http://www.rte.ie/rnag/barrscealta.html here is an interview with Cathal, if you want to listen to his Irish.

I even heard Cathal Ó Searcaigh can speak Breton too...

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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Quevenois » 2008-08-15, 1:20

Ok.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-07-22, 4:20

Quevy, could you correct these two sentences?

Mmm, is maith liom sé!
The "it" is guma, I wasn't sure of the gender and so I just guessed masculine

Is an duine atá i mo diaidh ocrach.
To be hungry is usually irregular is different languages, so I'm nearly sure this is wrong :P
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Quevenois » 2009-07-22, 4:29

Ok.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby LoneWolf » 2009-07-23, 2:27

Double slender n (which doesn't exist in Munster) is dental and is much palatalised, and is close to the English n in "new". It's like Spanish ñ and Italian or French gn.


C'est un peu hors sujet maintenant, mais je me suis toujours demander quel était la vrai nature de slender nn /N'/. Depuis mes débuts en Irlandais j'ai toujours prononcé ce son comme le gn en français. À l'écoute cela me semble effectivement assez similaire. Toutefois j'ai l'impression qu'il y a une petite difference, quasi imperceptible je dirais même. La variante irlandaise de [ɲ] semble plus ''dental'' que la la variante française qui elle, à tout le moins ne l'est pas du tout (en tout cas pas en Québécois). On dirais en Irlandais que la langue en plus de s'étendre sur le palais, s'étend aussi en arrière des dents du haut. Est-ce une observation juste? You say like Spanish ñ and Italian or French gn, but is it really exactly the same sound?

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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Quevenois » 2009-07-23, 11:08

Ok.
Last edited by Quevenois on 2010-11-20, 0:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Supreemio » 2009-07-23, 11:43

Is an duine atá i mo diaidh ocrach.


To say someone is hungry you have to use the preposition ''ar''.

Tá ocras orm = I am hungry (lit: hunger is on me)
Tá ocras ar Sheán = Seán is hungry

Tá ocras ar an duine i mo dhiaidh = the person after me is hungry

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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-07-23, 12:43

Supreemio wrote:
Is an duine atá i mo diaidh ocrach.


To say someone is hungry you have to use the preposition ''ar''.

Tá ocras orm = I am hungry (lit: hunger is on me)
Tá ocras ar Sheán = Seán is hungry

Tá ocras ar an duine i mo dhiaidh = the person after me is hungry

Oooh, for some reason it wasn't all clicking, I understand that now. Hehe

This reminds me, could you direct me to a list of contractions, somewhere. It doesn't even have to be complete, just some of the common ones.
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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby Supreemio » 2009-07-23, 12:47

This reminds me, could you direct me to a list of contractions, somewhere. It doesn't even have to be complete, just some of the common ones.


Cad é atá i gceist agat? Tabhair sampla domh :)
What do you mean? Give me example :)

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Re: ILE's Irish Questions

Postby ILuvEire » 2009-07-23, 13:13

Maybe contraction wasn't the best word, I couldn't think of another way to say it, but like, you don't say "ar mé," you say "orm." The ar and the mé are stuck together, what would be a better term?
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