księżyc - Gaelainn

[księżycowy]

I had wondered about that. Thanks again!

[księżycowy]

I certainly don't want to turn this into a rant thread, but TYI is what it is.

Lesson XII
For Ex. 30 #7:
How am I suppose to know that buailim + le/um means "to meet"? (Very interesting idiom, by the way. I get the impression that the general sense of buailim is physical contact of some sort. Or am I off?)

Ex. 29 # 5
I probably would have come close to the translation in the key, but I wouldn't have thought to use bheith.

#6
I wouldn't have thought to use the copula, but after seeing it, it makes complete sense.

Also, I notice some of the prepositions have overlapping meanings. I'm curious if there are any nuances there that we don't have in English. I probably should check GnaG, rather than bug any to type something up.

[księżycowy]

So I'm working on my translation, and I want to make sure I have this right:

Ní raibh an gluaisteán rónua. Bhíodh uisce á chur ann go minic aige mar bhíodh sé róthe.

Specifically the following:
rónua and róthe are ró + nua / te I'm hoping.

á is the third person possessive (alternative of a)?

[linguoboy]

á is the third person possessive (alternative of a)?

Not, it's ag/do + a.

[księżycowy]

Aha, thanks! That makes so much more sense.

There are too many a's and á's to keep track of.

[księżycowy]

I've been trying to formulate a translation for "only sheep need a shepherd":

Ní foláir do na caoire go bhfuil aeire acu.
Am I on the right track for "Sheep need a shepherd"?
(Admittedly that took me a few tries. And I can't remember if go causes eclipses with tá or if it uses atá or another form all together.)

And how do you specify "only"?

EDIT: I think it came back to me. It's go bhfuil isn't it?

[kevin]

Ní foláir do na caoirigh go bhfuil aoire acu.
Am I on the right track for "Sheep need a shepherd"?

I'm not familiar with the "ní foláir" construction. GnaG mentions it only with a verbal noun construction, not with a "go" clause, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong. I suppose you could change it into a VN construction like Ní foláir do na caoirigh aoire a bheith acu.

The other thing I'm not sure about is your use of the definite article for "na caoirigh". I would have left them indefinite.

(Admittedly that took me a few tries. And I can't remember if go causes eclipses with tá or if it uses atá or another form all together.)
EDIT: I think it came back to me. It's go bhfuil isn't it?

Yes, "go" always eclipses and it requires the dependent form, so go bhfuil is right.

And how do you specify "only"?

By negating and then using "ach": I drink only water = Ní ólaim ach uisce (I don't drink but water).

My attempt at the sentence (which I didn't post) was: Ní theastaíonn aoire ach ó chaoirigh.

[linguoboy]

My attempt at the sentence (which I didn't post) was: Ní theastaíonn aoire ach ó chaoirigh.

Personally think it sounds a little better with gá, i.e. Níl gá le haoire ach ag caoirigh.

What I'd really like is some way of fronting caoirigh in order to better preserve the emphasis of the original, but I can't find a good way to do that.

[księżycowy]

Ní foláir do na caoirigh go bhfuil aoire acu.
Am I on the right track for "Sheep need a shepherd"?

For spelling purposes, I had looked both terms up in the Cork Dictionary. I notice he gives the plural as caoire, but TYI gives caoirigh. He also give aeire for the main entry for shepherd, but aoire when giving other forms, like "Good Shepherd."

I'm not familiar with the "ní foláir" construction. GnaG mentions it only with a verbal noun construction, not with a "go" clause, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong. I suppose you could change it into a VN construction like Ní foláir do na caoirigh aoire a bheith acu.

TYI gives it as ní foláir dom for "I need/must" (and also ní mór dom too), but it doesn't give any further information, so I just kinda ran with it and saw what would happen. I probably should have checked with GnaG. Thanks for the clarification.

By negating and then using "ach": I drink only water = Ní ólaim ach uisce (I don't drink but water).

Very good to know. Thanks!

It's also interesting we're all coming at it from different angles.

[linguoboy]

He also give aeire for the main entry for shepherd, but aoire when giving other forms, like "Good Shepherd."

Funny, in my copy it's spelled with e throughout. The spelling aoire suggests a pronunciation with /iː/, but in Munster the vowel is /eː/.

I'm kind of baffled by caoire. Historically this is a k-stem, so caoirigh must be the inherited form (cf. Scottish-Gaelic caoraich). Some odd interference from the second declension?

[księżycowy]

That's......interesting. Especially since I got my copy of the dictionary from you.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I could swear it was like that for me.

EDIT: I should point out I was mainly talking about the entry dea-aoire when talking about other entries, which admittedly was misleading. The sub-entries directly under aeire indeed spell it consistently with an <e> instead of <o>. I also notice a lot of the example sentences in the Cork Dictionary spell it with an <o> instead of <e>. The mystery thickens, at least for me.

[księżycowy]

An bhfilleann tú ó Mheiriceá?
Is that a good translation of "Have you returned from America? Or would a different tense/construction be used? And should it be ó or de?

[linguoboy]

An bhfilleann tú ó Mheiriceá?
Is that a good translation of "Have you returned from America? Or would a different tense/construction be used? And should it be ó or de?

The preposition choice looks fine, but not the tense. This is "Do you return from America?" I would use either simple past or (if the meaning is "did you just get back?") the so-called perfect construction.

[księżycowy]

The tense was were I was most unsure, for some odd reason.

So: Ar fhillis tú ó Mheiriceá?

What's the perfect construction for Irish? I tried looking on GnaG, but didn't have any luck.

[linguoboy]

The tense was were I was most unsure, for some odd reason.

So: Ar fhillis tú ó Mheiriceá?

Subject pronouns aren't compatible with synthetic forms.

What's the perfect construction for Irish? I tried looking on GnaG, but didn't have any luck.

beith + verbal adjective. On second thought, I don't think it would be used here.

[księżycowy]

Subject pronouns aren't compatible with synthetic forms.

Brain fart.

beith + verbal adjective. On second thought, I don't think it would be used here.

Ah, ok.

In other news I've been working on my translation of An Chearc Uisce and have come across a sentence I want to make sure I get what's going on:
Chiath sé a raibh fágtha sa ghalún isteach thar an gclaí.

I'm thinking it means something like: "He poured out what was left of the container over the fence."
Considering that the verb raibh is a dependent form, I take that to mean that the a in question is the relative particle. I was also initially puzzled by the quick succession of verbs at the beginning of the sentence followed by a verbal noun.

[linguoboy]

[In other news I've been working on my translation of An Chearc Uisce and have come across a sentence I want to make sure I get what's going on:
Chaith sé a raibh fágtha sa ghalún isteach thar an gclaí.

I'm thinking it means something like: "He poured out what was left of the container over the fence."
Considering that the verb raibh is a dependent form, I take that to mean that the a in question is the relative particle. I was also initially puzzled by the quick succession of verbs at the beginning of the sentence followed by a verbal noun.

Verbal adjective, actually. This could potentially be the construction I just mentioned, in which case the reading would be "He threw what had (just) been left in the container over the fence." But it's a subtle distinction at best and in the absence of something which favours it (such as temporal context or an agent phrase with ag) I'd go with the default reading.

The dependent form indicates not just that a is a relative pronoun but that it is what is known as a "generalising relative pronoun", i.e., the meaning is not simply "that" but "all that". E.g.:

An bhfuair tú a raibh uait? Did you get all that you wanted?
Cf. An bhfuair tú a bhí uait? Did you get that which you wanted?

[księżycowy]

Verbal adjective, actually.

Right, I had forgotten about verbal adjectives (or the past particle, as TYI calls them)!

This could potentially be the construction I just mentioned, in which case the reading would be "He threw what had (just) been left in the container over the fence." But it's a subtle distinction at best and in the absence of something which favours it (such as temporal context or an agent phrase with ag) I'd go with the default reading.

Interesting. I'll keep note of that.

There are some ag constructions in surrounding sentences. I'm not sure if that changes anything though.

The dependent form indicates not just that a is a relative pronoun but that it is what is known as a "generalising relative pronoun", i.e., the meaning is not simply "that" but "all that". E.g.:

An bhfuair tú a raibh uait? Did you get all that you wanted?
Cf. An bhfuair tú a bhí uait? Did you get that which you wanted?

I'm glad to see I was on the right track. I just didn't take it far enough it seems.

[linguoboy]

Informally, "what" covers both usages in English.

[An Lon Dubh]

The tense was were I was most unsure, for some odd reason.

So: Ar fhillis tú ó Mheiriceá?

What's the perfect construction for Irish? I tried looking on GnaG, but didn't have any luck.

The Irish perfect is quite restricted compared with the English. Experiential perfects (indicating that something has occurred at least once before the present) use the past not the perfect.

The construction that gives the Irish perfect, can really only convey resultive perfects or present statives. I can give more detail if required.