Page 1 of 1

Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-22, 2:16
by TommyZamora2
[flag=]cak[/flag] I don't know if I am posting this right but I'm just going to talk about what I have learned recently in Yucatec Mayan(Maaya T'aan) every once in a while and about its grammar. Don't hesitate to join in either! We could help each other out, and I am ALWAYS open to corrections. I'm new to unilang and thought it would be nice to have a place to type down my progress and maybe even learn with others![flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-22, 2:37
by TommyZamora2
[flag=]cak[/flag]So here is what I have learned today(Grammar wise)[flag=]cak[/flag]
    There is no word "To be" in Maaya T'aan
    The word for "I" is "In" but the "i" is pronounced like the "ee" in reed.
    "Taan" is a present progressive marker and is kinda the equivalent of "ing" in English
So a simple sentence would be: "Taan in ximbal" or "I am walking". (Ximbal=To walk or Stroll)
It sounds kinda funny when translated literally into english as "I walking" :P That's not all for today however.
    Taan can be contracted into "Tin" and it still means "I am ___ing". The (t)in obviously comes from taan while t(in) comes from In or I.

So the same sentence with the contracted form would be:"Tin ximbal" or "I'm walking". Mayans basically do this to simply talk faster, like how in English we use I'm instead of I am!

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-22, 23:26
by TommyZamora2
Day 2
I learned a bit more today but not a whole lot so I'm going to go over the important parts.
    "To see" in Maaya T'aan is "Wilik"
    An intransitive verb is a verb without a direct object like "I see". Transitive is the opposite
Sample intransitive sentence:"In wilik" or "I see".
    "-ech"is a direct object we stick at the end of the vowel, it means "you"
Now for a simple transitive sentence:"In wilikech" or "I see you".
However, you probably will never hear it in this way but instead "In wilkech" with the second "i" dropped. I don't know why that is and hope to find out later. Perhaps anyone on this site knows?
    The direct object for "me/I" is "-en".
    "A"(pronounced like the a in father) before the verb means "you"
Using this in a sentence we could get :"A wiliken" or "You see me".
As said before, no one will every say it like this but instead "A wilken".
While it is true that
They can also be possesive adjactives
Now, a common phrase used by Mayans today is "In lak'ech", which literally means "My other is you".Ancient Mayans believed that all humans are related and interconnected with the universe, forming a single universal entity. "In Lak'ech" was used as a greeting "My other is you" . So basically "Lak'" means "other" or "deep friend". I don't know if there is a more casual/less deep word for friend. This sounds funny when translated directly into english as "My other you" :P
"A lak'en" means "your other is me" which directly translates into "Your other me".
To put it into a way that makes more sense:
"In lak'ech"=You are my friend
"A lak'en"=I am your friend
If you noticed that we put an apostrophe before -ech and -en for "In lak'ech" and "A lak'ech", its just because "k" represent a glottal stop and its apart of the word Lak'.
Thats it for today. If you have any advice, corrections, or feedback please do tell.

Oh and apparently the Yucatec word for the "The end" is "Xuul" so...

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-22, 23:43
by TommyZamora2
Oh and if you want to add something, feel free! This is a place for everyone to post about the Mayan language! plus it wouldn't hurt to help each other out!

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-24, 3:19
by TommyZamora2
Day 3:
Adjectives go before the noun it modifies, so thats not too hard.
For example:
    "Ma'alob janal" means "Good/well food". (Janal=food)
    "Jach ma'alob janal" means "Very good/well food" (Jach=Very or Much)
For those not familiar with Maaya T'aan spelling, "H" is not used unless combined with "C" like in "Ch", so J makes the H sound. Altough, i often forget this a lot myself :whistle: (Thanks Reinder for the reminder). One should also note that "Ma'alob" is understood as "Well" or "good" but it literally means "Not bad". "-Ma'" means "no" or "not".
However, if you really want to use the word for good/fine use "Uts".

Anyway, thats all i learned today about adjectives so lets jump into nouns!
Now, i learn that Mayan nouns function mostly like english nouns except for a few exceptions.For example, they technically have "no article". However the particle "le" when combined with the positional markers -a,-o,and -e(put at the end of a noun) can mean this, that, and that(over there, usually out of sight). Now lets have some words to try that on.
    Pek or Pek'=dog
Now lets use these with "Le (vowel) shall we?
    Le peka or Le pek'a (meaning this dog)
    Le peko or Le pek'o (meaning that dog)
    And finally Le peke or Le pek'e (meaning that dog over there)
Here the info is again but easier to read:
    Le (a) - this
    Le (o)-that
    Le (e)-that(over there)
Now try it with the other words for practice! Anyway, on to the last thing i learned today.

Generally used plural forms
The plural ending attachment is "-o'ob". So lets say we wanted to say "names" or "The ones".
    (leti'=The one)
    (leti'o'ob=The ones/They)
However, i read in one place it ends -o'ob as a suffix if it ends in cononant or ob if it ends in a vowel but most sources explain it the way i just did. Perhaps anyone has some info on that? I would just ignore it though...
Thats only the begining of plurals though but i start school again tommorow so this is all i have time for. Until tomorrow!

[flag=]cak[/flag]Xuul. Jach yuum bo'otik, Hasta saamal! [flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-26, 0:28
by TommyZamora2
Day 4(part one)
I don't have enough time to type all i learned today because Im very busy, so ill focus on the adjective portion. While listening to a song i learned a new word! "Múul" means "Pyramid(Pre-Hispanic). So based on my notes from last time, the plural of pyramids would be "múulo’ob", and that's how the singer in the song said it! The full line was "Nukuch múulo’ob" or "Great pyramids" )
(Nukuch=Big,Tall, or great)
Other words I had learned from the song were:
    Meyaj= to work
    Kuxtal=to live
    Yook'ol kaab=The Earth?
With this we can form a sentence from the song!
"Múuch' ak kuxtal, múuch' ak meyaj...
Waye' Tuuuu lu'umil mayab!
My translation(may be a bit of :hmm: ): Together we live, together we work...Here on the land of the Maya!
Take note, the word "Nukuch" is generally used with plurals. Fore example the sentence:
    Le nukuch ch'iich'o'ob or Those big birds.
Nukuch is apart of a group of various adjectives with the suffix "(vowel)ch". Alone, "Nuk" is the word for big/old but when it's an adjective, the last vowel is repeated and a ch is added. Another example of this would be...
    Jalach Uinik=True man (Pre-Hispanic Mayan leader)
    Uinik=Man or Human
    Jalach comes from "Jah" meaning True, the vowel is repeated and a ch is added. The "H" changes into an L(I don't know why)
If a vowel is present after the letter "U" it becomes pronounced like a "W" so Uinik is said kinda like "Wee-nick".
Thats all for today, hopefully ill get to part 2 tomorow... If you were wondering what the song was it was (The title is slightly misspelled)
[flag=]cak[/flag] Xuul. Ka xi'ik teech utsil! [flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-26, 23:16
by Massimiliano B
What resources do you use for learning Maaya T'aan?

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-26, 23:24
by TommyZamora2
Various ones , i was thinking about including a list. Im glad you commented, I've seen some of your posts on your progress learning Maaya T'aan. All i have to say is you are far more advanced than I :blush: . If you see anything wrong please do tell. I can look through my resources if you want and send you some if you don't have them already. Or i can just make a post.

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-26, 23:38
by Massimiliano B
I've forgotten almost everything I learnt about Maaya T'aan :cry:. Few months ago I intended to start again learning it, but I had no time. I'll keep reading your posts.

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-26, 23:53
by TommyZamora2
Aww man, thats too bad. But thanks! Im glad you will read them! Im planning on uploading part 2 of day 4 tomorrow. I would have way more but i just started school again :/ Cya around :D
[flag=]cak[/flag]Jach yuum bo'otik, Ka xi’ik teech utsil![flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-27, 23:53
by TommyZamora2
Day 4 (part 2 of 2):
Singular pronouns
Alright, This part will be the shortest of all. I have lots of school work to catch up on :P . However during some point this weekend I'll post 2 or more bigger parts along with some resources and videos i has used/seen.
Anyway, a big thing to get out of the way is "U", it is a singular pronoun (Along with "in" and "a").
Now that we know those singular pronouns, guess what?! There's...more. However, these can be used independently, to reinforce an otherwise expressed subject, or for emphasis(We will get to that later). Anyhow, lets see them shall we?
Well, at least know we know all the singular pronouns. Now to add one last thing to make it feel like i posted something a bit more than Singular pronouns.
"-Mix" is a negative particle. Sooooo
    Mix ba'al=Nothing
    Mix tu'ux=Nowhere
Well that's all for today, but ill start posting longer ones soon. Btw i corrected a few mistakes on the last posts, and it would be appreciated that you tell me if you spot anymore.
[flag=]cak[/flag]Xuul. Jach yuum bo'otik,tak saamal![flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-30, 1:05
by TommyZamora2
Day 5:
So today i learned a bit more since it was the weekend. Now, as anyone may or may not have noticed, Maaya T'aan generally lacks the use of gender. Especially in personal pronouns and possessive adjectives. Gender isn't really THAT important in grammatical consideration, but i decided to learn a few things about gender anyway just in case I see or hear anything with it (Plus i found out some cool stuff worth mentioning). I learned that in Maaya T'aan, there are three genders. They are masculine, feminine, and neuter.
Now like in most languages, there are words that already obviously state the gender alone. Here are some of those words in Yucatec Mayan.
    Iicham =Husband
    Tancelem=Teenage Boy
When the gender is not already determined like the ones above, the can also be determined using the prefixes "J" for males and "X" for females. An intresting thing is that there is actually a reason why these 2 letters were chosen to represent genders in Modern Yucatec Mayan. Now if your a glyph student like me you might already know what I'm about to get at.
In pre-colonial times, "Aj" and "Ix" were used to determine gender, thus today the first letters were just taken off. Now Aj and Ix are still used today rarely (usually for religious purposes, Mayan or Christan) or for Mayan names today such as:
    Aj Na Pot Xiu
    Aj Xupan Nauat
    Aj Kin Chilam Balam
    Ix Chel
    Ix Kan le Ox
    Ix titibe

I don't know the exact meaning of most of these, so if anyone knows, it would be really cool if you could do some research and comment. However i do know that "Chel/Cheel" means rainbow so Ix Chel means "She of the Rainbow". I also know Ix Chel was the name of the classical Mayan moon goddess and is used today to represent the Virgin Mary. Not a whole lot of mayans are named traditionally today anyway, but they also use play names(later). Now "Aj" and "Ix" are sometimes used modernly in other (holy, sacred) things like:
    Aj k'in=A priest, now reffering to the prist of the Cruzoob of Quintana Roo(He of the Sun)
    Aj tepalo'ob=The ruling ones, one of the dieties called upon in shaman rituals.
    Aj kan titzilo'ob=The ones of the four corners of the world, another set of dieties.
K'in also means day or sun.

Now lets talk about the word "Men". As noun it means "Maker" and as a verb it means "To make". It is usually used to describe occupations. Lets see some.
    H men xanab=Male Shoe maker
    H men tsʼaak =Male Medicine maker/Pharmacist.
    X men xanab=Female shoe maker
    X men ts'aak=Female Medicine maker/Pharmacist.
Now how i typed "medicine maker" above actually isn't the common way it is usually said. Only use that for clarification if necessary. Usually just "H men or X men" is understood as a shaman or a medicine maker. Kinda weird isn't it?
Any way remember when i mentioned play names? In Mayya T'aan, play names is said "Baxal K'aaba'o'ob". They are usually alternatives to Aj and Ix and are more than often related to animals... Just that was kinda funny :) . Speaking of kinda funny things, one way to indicate the male gender of animals, all you have to do is stick the word "Penis" in front of it. Lets have some examples and learn some new words...
    Ton pek'=Male dog
    Ton Uakax=Male bull
You are still litteraly saying "Penis __Animal__" :lol: . As for female animals, it is just assumed. Some Mayans use the word Kep or Keep for penis as well. Now this is not the only way to indicate the gender of animals, and is actually the less common one. It can also be determined by using the actualy words male or female in front of the animal being described. For Example:
    Xibil pek'=Male dog
    Ch'upul pek'=Female dog
Now that had me thinking "Hmmm, but isn't Xiib the word for man and Ch'up the word for woman?" Well then I found out about turning nouns into adjectives.
Turns out, many adjectives in Yucatec are formed from nouns by taking a vowel which agrees with the last vowel in the noun and adding it to the ending of the word along with "L". For example:
    Xib/Xiib(Man)=Xibil/Xiibil(Female)[as seen above]
    Ch'up(femlae)=Ch'upul(female) [as seen above]
    Kaab/Kab(earth)=Kaabal(Low, short) [In comparison to the sky]
    Book (Smell)=Bookol(smelly)
    Ka'an(sky)=Ka'anal(High, tall) In comparison to the ground]
This is also were we get the K'aaba' for the infamous Mayan deity "Kukulkan". With this information alone we can pull apart and decipher his name 8-) .
    Kan=Snake, serpent
If your a fan of mythology like me you probably already the that Kukulkan meant feathered serpent but now we actually know why. Isn't that amazing?!?!?!
Alright, even tough i learned more than just that today, i'm going to wrap up this post with one last thing. Very often you will see words that end in the suffix "-Tsil" and "-Bil".
They basically suggest a deep respect towars the person or object modified by them, such as:
    Mama(mom)=Mamatsil(Respectfull mother)
    Utsil also means beauty
Yuumtzil and Colebil are often used by modern day H meno'ob when talking about religion. I'm sorry i lied, one last thing since it goes with the whole gender thing :P .
Today some towns have x infront of them. Here are some Spanish names but in Mayan.
Nicolasa=X Nico
Victoria=X Bica
Emilia=X mila
However the "H" in front of male names is much less common, even rare. One example is
Manuel=H uel
Other words are used for respect today too like Don and Doña. Also Mam is used in the same sense
as Doña, but Doña is often is used for non-indigenous women and Mam for Mayan born females.
Sometimes you will even see Xch'upal, for some weird reason. Almost like Someone really want's to confirm that the person they are describing is a girl. Finally that's all for today.
[flag=]cak[/flag]Xuul.Jach yuum bo'otik, Tak uláak' k'in :mrgreen: [flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-30, 1:05
by TommyZamora2
Sorry if you saw day 5 posted twice 2 minutes ago, i don't know what happened there...

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-30, 10:24
by Reinder
TommyZamora2 wrote:However, i read in one place it ends -o'ob as a suffix if it ends in cononant or ob if it ends in a vowel but most sources explain it the way i just did. Perhaps anyone has some info on that? I would just ignore it though...

The Autonomous University of Yucatan just says that a noun is made plural by adding the suffix -o'ob.

Some examples:

The plural ending, however, is not added when a number of animals, people or things are indicated:
Ka'atúul káax (two chickens)
Kantúul miis (four cats)

TommyZamora2 wrote:Yook'ol kaab=The Earth?

It seems that "yook'ol" is a preposition meaning "on" or "over" and "kaab" means "world" or "earth", but together it seems to be translated as "our universe".

Hopefully I'll have some more time later to investigate some more. Thanks again for your interesting posts!

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-30, 14:42
by TommyZamora2
Thank you so much Reinder. I eventually just started using -o'ob for plurals now cause i never saw any other source use just o'b. But it's nice to know how the The Autonomous University of Yucatan says it, so that's finally out of the way. Thanks for the animal names as well. It is interesting that a noun isn't plural when the number is already indicated :hmm: . Perhaps i need to start learning my numbers, although it's tough because alot of diffirent sources write them diffirently... But maybe you can check them!
Thinks for clearing the deffinition of Yook'ol kaab, I see it alot. I got it from a line from a song. Actually if i recall the line was something like:
"Jump'éel ch'iibal
Jach k'ajolta'an
Tuláakal yook'ol kaab!
Jun and Jump'éel mean one (I'm actually supposed to cover that in today's post later) and Ch'iibal or ch'i'ibal means heritage or culture. We all know Jach means very or very much. Tuláakal means all. Maybe you could look up k'ajolta'an for me? My guess would be well known. So i guess to full translation would be:
"One culture/heritage
Very well known
On all the earth!
This would make sense of your explanation that yook'ol is a preposition meaning "on". I will make these corrections to my earlier posts later. Oh and by the way, what sources are you using to look up definitions? I would love to know for myself so i wouldn't have to keep bugging you...Do you also know what "ben" means at the end of words? See what i mean :/ Thanks for all your help and encouragement!
[flag=]cak[/flag]Jach yuum bo'otik![flag=]cak[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-30, 17:17
by Reinder
TommyZamora2 wrote:Maybe you could look up k'ajolta'an for me?
TommyZamora2 wrote:Do you also know what "ben" means at the end of words?

I might come back on these two things later, but for now I can't find anything about that.

About the plurals, I found a more elaborate explication about this in a book called Maaya junp'éel written by Javier Abelardo Gómez Navarrete.

  • In Mayan plural is formed by adding the suffix -o'ob
    peek' (dog) - peek'o'ob (dogs)
    miis (cat) - miiso'ob (cats)
  • If the noun ends in a glottalized vowel only -ob is added
    che' (tree) - che'ob (trees)
    chi' (mouth) - chi'ob (mouths)
    ni' (nose) - ni'ob (noses)
  • Nouns that end in -pal form their plural by adding -al
    paal (boy) - paalal (boys)
    xiipal (boy) - xiipalal (boys)
    x ch'úupal (girl) - x ch'úupalal (girls)
  • Some nouns like colors or sizes use the suffix -tax
    sak (white one) - saktak (white ones)
    ya'ax (green one) - ya'axtak (green ones)
    nuuk (big one) - nuuktak (big ones)
    mejen (small one) - mejentak (small ones)
I hope this doesn't confuse you more. I used the spelling from Diccionario introductorio by Javier Abelardo Gómez Navarrete as well. Both books are published by the University of Quintana Roo. The other resources I use are an online dictionary from the Autonomous University of Yucatan and an online course they created, but everything is in Spanish.

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-08-30, 18:10
by TommyZamora2
Oh no, I am not confused at all. Thank you for the titles of your resources and more info on plurals.

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-09-12, 1:06
by TommyZamora2
Unfortunately, i have not gotten much time to practice or study yucatec mayan because im very busy at school. However yesterday in my free time i found a Yucatec Poem and decided to try and translate it or learns some new words. Here is the poem in yucatec:
Ten, cheen ten...
Kin bin in xiimbal
yook'ol kab.

Kin bin in kaxtik yakunaj,
Je bix juntuul chan paal
Ku k'aatik u yo'och,
ken u yu'ub wi'ij.

Kin bin in t'ochpajaj
kin luubul,
kin wu'uyik yajil,
ts'o'okole kin ka liik'il...
Kin suut paakat paachil,
kin tuklike' ya'ab u bin
in ximbaltik le u beelil le kuxtalo'

Ku jop'ol in ka xiimbal,
ya'ab ba'alo'ob ku maan tin tuukul,
jump'el jach k'aja'anteni',
in k'uchul tu'ux kin bin.

In English:
Me, only me...
I am going walking
on all the earth.

I am looking for love,
Like a child

This was all that i was 100% possitive about, and i havent finished the rest, and please dont hesitate to help, this is a bit hard for me at my level. Infact please help. I havent been doing much yucatec lately as i have been working on 日本語 at the moment, and like I If your a non-spanish speaking person like me, finding resources and dictionaries can be hard to find/understand, so at the moment my spanish speaking friend is helping me translate a very small but good Spanish-Yucatec/Yucatec-Spanish dictionary to English. I plan to share to those perhaps intrested. I do have learnign days planed however in the upcoming week or mabye this weekend. Anyways as for the poem, i dint include any accents yet but im planning to later.
[flag=]yua[/flag]Xuul. Jach yuum bo'otik', Tak uláak' k'in![flag=]yua[/flag]

Re: Maaya T'aan Grammar

Posted: 2015-09-12, 1:48
by TommyZamora2
I have also found this in the same place I found the poem. Its a little book with spanish on the right, and yucatec on the right. Great for translation practice.
The book is called Chan Mukuy (the turtledove) ... peche_6/24