johnklepac - Nahuatl

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-06-27, 22:42

I figure if I don't start a thread, I'll never have the motivation to actually make progress on this language.

Anyway, I'm not aiming that high; I just want to get a good hold on the basics of the language. I'm thinking Classical Nahuatl; I'd prefer a modern variety but there are so many and so few materials for each one.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9383
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby księżycowy » 2013-06-28, 1:23

I'm curious what you've found to learn with.
Biblical Hebrew (he) Japanese (ja) | Munster Irish (ga) Seneca (see)

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-06-28, 4:21

[flag]en-us[/flag] I've got the formal grammar Classical Nahuatl and an English-Spanish-Modern Nahuatl (not sure what dialect)-Classical Nahuatl dictionary, both from the library.
[flag]cs[/flag] Mám skutečné mluvnické učebnice Klasická Nahuatlština a angličtinu-španělštinu-Moderní Nahuatlština (nevím nářečí jméno)-Klasické Nahuatlštinu slovník, z kníhovny.
[flag]ja[/flag] 「クラシックなナフアトル語」という公式の教科書と英語・スペイン語・新しいナフアトル語(どんなかな)・クラシックなナフアトル語の辞書を図書館から持ってる。

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-06-28, 16:24

Notes on orthography:

Like in Spanish, <qu> is indeed pronounced as simply /k/, while <c> is ambiguous. <z> is always pronounced /s/. There are also glottal stops, marked <h>. <tl>, I didn't realize, is its own sound, comparable to Klingon <tlh>. There are no diphthongs; all digraphs make single sounds. Sounds assimilate.

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-06-30, 20:57

Flipping through the grammar reminded me what I revile about such things: the organization. They're totally unfit for people who don't enter with background knowledge about similar languages. Instead, I'm starting out with the short introduction to Nahuatl grammar in the front of the dictionary. With that out of the way, then...

I already knew about noun endings, but not that they can be predicted from the end of the stem. That's convenient.



Noun stemEnding (singular)Ending (plural)Example
voweltlh (humans); meh (other)tetl (stone)
consonant other than <l>tli; intin; mehtahtli (mother); chapulin (grasshopper)
<l>litinpalli (child)


A reference list of pronouns in various forms:












































PronounSubject (transitive verb)Object (transitive verb)Subject (intransitive verb)Possessive
Ininechninono
you (s)timitztimomo
she; he; it-c; qu; quimoi
wetitechtitoto
you (pl)am; anamechammoamo
they-quim; quinmoim; in
someonetete
somethingtla


Nouns are often compounded; all entries but the last drop their suffixes, final <i>s are also dropped, and <hui>s change to <uh>s.

Adjectives, luckily, don't change much, declining only based on number. Ones that end with <li> change it to <tin>, ones that end in <c> and <qui> change it to <queh>, and those that end in <h> add <queh>.

Relative clauses are created with the word in. It's that simple, apparently.

I'll start off with this vocabulary, a mix of words used as examples in the lessons, ones I already know, and ones I looked up for fun:
water - atl
stone - tetl
person - tlacatl
mother - nantli
father - tahtli
chili - chilli
child - pilli
fish - michin
grasshopper - chapulin
good - cualli
bad - ahcualli
house - calli
god - teotl
bird - tototl
language; word - tlahtolli
dog - itzcuintli; chichi
snake - coatl
lizard - cuetzpalin
cat - mizton
insect - yolcatontli
turtle - ayotl
flower - xochitl
coyote - coyotl
cacao - xocolatl
book - amoxtli
today; now - axcan
tree - tetepontli

Edit: What the heck is up with these blank lines? I never added them voluntarily.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1633
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-06-30, 23:19

You've made ​​me want to study Yucatec Maya again!!

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9383
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby księżycowy » 2013-06-30, 23:47

Cool to see some activity here again.

If it wasn't for my class on Biblical Hebrew I'd consider picking up Aymara (again), or Nahuatl. Maybe later this summer.
Biblical Hebrew (he) Japanese (ja) | Munster Irish (ga) Seneca (see)

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-07-03, 21:54

I learned yesterday that you're supposed to add the accusative affix to a verb even if its referent is specified. For example, "I have a head" is not napia in quaitl but naquipia in quaitl. Oh, Nahuatl, you so silly.

The distribution of the ease with which I recall words given the English form vs. the Nahuatl form is very lopsided; I do very well when given the Nahuatl form and struggle otherwise. I'll have to work on that.

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-07-07, 4:28

I've learned the imperative form today: ma xi + verb + can (only if plural).

In tenochtli ma xiquimaca axcan! Give me the cactus now!
Noamox ma xitlapohua auh ma xitlahcuiloa. Read my book and write.
Tototo ma xicua. Eat our bird.
Intlatzotzonal ma xicohua. Buy their music.

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-09-12, 14:46

[flag]en-us[/flag] I really need to get around to picking up this ancient Nahuatl poetry text I picked up from my university library a couple of weeks ago.
[flag]nah[/flag] Niquinequi niquipehtlapohuaz in huehuehnahuatlatolamoxtli tlen yeuehcauh nocalmecacamoxcal nechmacaya.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 9383
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby księżycowy » 2013-09-12, 17:53

It would be cool if you posted one and did something with it. :wink:
Biblical Hebrew (he) Japanese (ja) | Munster Irish (ga) Seneca (see)

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-11-10, 20:00

księżycowy wrote:It would be cool if you posted one and did something with it. :wink:

American (en-us) Just saw this. Yeah, I'll see if I can do that as soon as I get home. I still have the book out.
Mexican (nah) In yancuic cahuipan niquitlachiaya. Quemah, ninequi in ic nitlahcuiloaz in ipan niyauhz nocalcopa. Axcan in amoxtli ca nocalpan.

User avatar
johnklepac
Posts: 2809
Joined: 2012-12-06, 2:18
Real Name: Your Onions
Gender: male
Location: Chicago/Southwest Ohio
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby johnklepac » 2013-11-11, 23:30

I had a full... I don't know what you call it, but one of those word-affix-case-particle dealies, drawn up for this, but when I clicked "Preview" my Internet made me log in to the server I'm on, and when I did, everything was gone because the page reloaded. I'm not gonna bother again.

Mexican (nah) Can ti ya nemia ticuicanitl ma ya hualmoquetza xochihuehuetl quetzaltica huiconticac teocuitlaxochinenepaniuhticac y ayamo aye iliamo aye huiy ohuaya, ohuaya.
American (en-us) Where thou walkest, O singer, bring forth thy flowery drum, let it stand amid beauteous feathers, let it be placed in the midst of golden flowers.

DELS
Posts: 1
Joined: 2013-12-11, 3:43

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby DELS » 2013-12-11, 4:02

The Nahuatl you use, is it classical or specific variation of the language?

Tlequiyahuitl
Posts: 5
Joined: 2013-08-16, 19:47
Gender: male
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: johnklepac - Nahuatl

Postby Tlequiyahuitl » 2013-12-21, 5:26

That's indeed Classical Nahuatl! Nahuatl is not easy to study, but is very fun.
Ca huehuehnaahuatlahtoolli oon! Ahmo ihciuhca quimomachtiah, auh ca cencah iipal paacoohua.

(since accents can't easily be done on the computer I just doubled the long vowels; if you study it without any accents then you'll get minimal pairs mixed up, e.g. xihuitl=plant(s) but xiihuitl=comet (if I remember that right))

Classical Nahuatl's pretty strange sometimes (often really ambiguous as well, and it lacks words for many Old World concepts, as well as for modern inventions), but it's the coolest language I've ever studied, so I'd recommend it. The Classical form has many more accessible resources than Modern Nahuatl, and I can suggest some if you'd like. However, you have to be careful to know you're getting legitimate Classical Nahuatl and not Spanish-influenced Nahuatl, which is much simplified. You have to be careful to throw language preconceptions out the window, as it doesn't use a copula in most "normal" situations, and it uses the verb for "have" quite differently than in English (e.g. you can "have" something on you at that time, but you do not "have" a head for example; either your head "is something" or you are a "head-haver").

Edit: Out of curiosity, johnklepac, how are you learning the language? You said "naquipia in quaitl" but that should be "nicpiya in cuaaitl"; the orthography whatever book you have is teaching you is antiquated.

Furthermore, since your signature says you are open to corrections, I thought I'd just note a couple things. If only one consonant phoneme (tl, ch, hu, and cu are all one phoneme) follows the 3ps "qu/c", then you don't need to do "qui" but you shorten it to "c", as I have done in the edit. Also, nouns also frequently end in "ni" which is like English "er" as in "speaker", and may often lack any absolutive suffix, such as "tzapa"=dwarf. Verbs can also be nominalized (treated like a noun), so if you say "nicnequi nicmictiiz in tlachiya", that literally means "I want I kill the he-keeps-things" but can be translated as "I want to kill the guard".
Quin onihuallah. ZBB: LeCiagoPanda
Native: [flag]en[/flag] Intermediate: [flag]fr[/flag]
Learning: Classical Nahuatl [flag]it[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag]
Of interest: [flag]iu[/flag] [flag]cr[/flag] [flag]sa[/flag] [flag]ja[/flag]


Return to “Central and South American Indigenous Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest