General Discussion

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General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-12, 22:18

Here's a place to discuss anything (linguistic or other) about any indigenous Central or South American peoples. Enjoy!
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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-13, 19:54

I'm trying to find some sort of "celebration" we can do which would be similar to the NAIL Powwow we had last year* (based on Native American Heritage Month here in the US), but obviously would celebrate CSAILs. Anyone have any ideas?

So far, all I can find are some individual language days/celebrations. We may have to just pick one. :?

*And will be back this November.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-15, 19:17

Well, unless anyone has any objections, I think I/we will go with the Bolivian "Día del Indio" (Day of the Indian, August 2). One might wonder "Why Bolivia?" Fair question. It's based off of the percentage of the population of Central and South American countries that are indigenous. Bolivia won at 55%, though Peru and Guatemala were close*. This seems just as good as any other ideas, IMO.



*Based on the figures here.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Lur » 2012-05-15, 23:42

You're trying to find a single day for a quite big variety of languages...

In fact, I have no idea which one I would pick to learn.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-15, 23:51

Not exactly. I'm just looking for an event we can use to get something similar to the NAIL Powwow we had last November. Only this would be for CSAILs, obviously.

We most likely won't be working with a month long event, like Native American Heritage Month (in the US). So we'll take a day and run with it. :wink:

I'm also not looking to over lap the two.

Oh, and as far as which you should pick . . . Like I usually tell people looking for a NAIL to study (when they don't know which to pick), just pick on and see if you like it. Though it helps to at least narrow the list down.

Mayan, Nahuatl, Quechua (maybe Aymara and Guarani) seem to be popular choices.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Remis » 2012-05-16, 11:50

Well, I know for sure that I'm going with Nāhuatlatōlli, unless I can a) find better, free/inexpensive English resources for Mayan/Quechua or b) learn enough Spanish to understand ~70% of the Spanish resources. :mrgreen: Though Tzotzil does seem like it would be accessible, using the resources posted here. Hmm.
As for the day itself, I'm all for the day it's on as it's in my summer vacation (and therefore I'll be able to take a whole day off). However, I'd suggest doing a whole week, as one day isn't really enough, I think; especially due to CSAIL's general dissimilarities from the languages that most people around here know. :?
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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-16, 12:13

It would be either a month or three month CSAILC*, similar to the NAILC during the Powwow. People could choose to do it for only a month, or a full three month SAC** like event. I'm just using the date as a jumping off point. We could start the CSAILC earlier, I just don't want both the CSAILC and NAILC going at the same time, or over-lapping really.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'd be able to do a story, like we did for the Powwow. But I'm open to other suggestions, of course. :)

Sorry, apparently I'm not being clear enough. :oops:


*Central and South American Indiginous Language Contest
**Three month TAC. See here if you don't know what either mean.



Well, I know for sure that I'm going with Nāhuatlatōlli, unless I can a) find better, free/inexpensive English resources for Mayan/Quechua or b) learn enough Spanish to understand ~70% of the Spanish resources. Though Tzotzil does seem like it would be accessible, using the resources posted here. Hmm.

Out of curiosity, what do you have for Nahuatl?

And suprisingly, most of the Quechua and Mayan resources I've listed are priced nicely. Though getting them to Europe might bump it up a notch. Nor could I guarantee some of them would ship internationally. :hmm:
But Universities are usually pretty good about that. And of course Amazon has websites internationally. So it just depends on your price range, and what your looking for.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Lur » 2012-05-16, 12:20

księżycowy wrote:Oh, and as far as which you should pick . . . Like I usually tell people looking for a NAIL to study (when they don't know which to pick), just pick on and see if you like it. Though it helps to at least narrow the list down.

Mayan, Nahuatl, Quechua (maybe Aymara and Guarani) seem to be popular choices.

I actually narrowed it down to these, but some comprise several languages. I think it would depend on there being stuff to read, people here to talk to in it and me liking the language like you say :lol:

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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-16, 12:30

The biggest problem (like most indigenous languages) would be finding someone to talk to in it, unfortunately.

And yes, Mayan and Quechua comprise several languages/dialects. But I would think it really would just be a matter of finding resources you liked, and if there were any other type of deciding factors. Such as liking Mexican history so then looking into Mexican varieties of Mayan. Or whatever. :)

I have to confess, at this current moment I'm tossing around between Mayan (Kaqchikel or K'iche'), Aymara, and Quechua (Bolivian).

But my choices are mostly limited to whatever English resources I have, or intend to get.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Lur » 2012-05-17, 13:12

If I see a common CSAIL lingua franca around here I might jump on board.

I've been interested in the pre-European history of America for a while, since I realized I knew nothing about it. But the thing with history, is that first you start reading wikipedia, then books, then you consider even wargaming, and then finally you realize you might only be satisfied learning the languages...
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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-17, 13:20

It might be hard to find a lingua franca, as most CSAIL are spoken by the native population. The lingua francas are Spanish and Portuguese really.

At any rate, it's all up to you. :)
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Lur » 2012-05-17, 13:21

No, I mean a common CSAIL language here in Unilang, not there :lol: I already know the lingua franca of there.

The Mayan languages look so cool to me for some reason. And Náhuatl, though it seems like a bit of a tongue twister. tl, tli, lli, pl. I'm less familiar with the others, sadly. I could attempt to learn a bit of everything for a start. Oh, this is going to be confusing.

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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-17, 13:39

Luke wrote:No, I mean a common CSAIL language here in Unilang, not there :lol: I already know the lingua franca of there.

Oh, my mistake.

The Mayan languages look so cool to me for some reason. And Náhuatl, though it seems like a bit of a tongue twister. tl, tli, lli, pl. I'm less familiar with the others, sadly. I could attempt to learn a bit of everything for a start. Oh, this is going to be confusing.

Yeah, Nahuatl can be a bit fun to pronounce. Though those Mayan languages can get a bit crazy with the glottal stops. :P

Just pick one, and see if you like it. That would be the best. If you know more about Nahuatl and Mayan, go with one of those. Might be less overwhelming that way.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Remis » 2012-05-17, 14:09

księżycowy wrote:It would be either a month or three month CSAILC*, similar to the NAILC during the Powwow. People could choose to do it for only a month, or a full three month SAC** like event. I'm just using the date as a jumping off point. We could start the CSAILC earlier, I just don't want both the CSAILC and NAILC going at the same time, or over-lapping really.
Oh, I see! Cool! :mrgreen:
Though I would suggest starting it in July then (or even June), as going straight from CSAILC to NAILC (which I am indeed planning on completing this year, as opposed to my failure last year :P) could be ... Interesting.
...Well, it wouldn't be a problem for the folks doing one month only, but still. :P
Out of curiosity, what do you have for Nahuatl?
NAHUATL
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/nahuatl/nahuatl.html
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nahuatl
http://ikindalikelanguages.com/labs/lesson.php?id=264
http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/nahuatl/nahugram.html
view.php?res=2285
http://mexica.ohui.net/
The top-most link is Classical only, not sure what the other ones are (though I know for sure that link #2 is Modern). The bottom link is sólo en español, unfortunately; it seems quite comprehensive. :? I also removed one link because it was for a MediaFire file that I'm not sure is legal.
And suprisingly, most of the Quechua and Mayan resources I've listed are priced nicely. Though getting them to Europe might bump it up a notch. Nor could I guarantee some of them would ship internationally. :hmm:
But Universities are usually pretty good about that. And of course Amazon has websites internationally. So it just depends on your price range, and what your looking for.
Yeah, that's kind of the problem; shipping American-published resources to Europe usually costs an arm and a leg, and it usually takes about half a year, too. :? They might have some at the University of Oslo, indeed; I'll have to ask Aleco about that (though I'm not sure whether they even lend/sell resources to non-University students, so ...).
For now I'll just see if any of the European Amazons have anything, though.
księżycowy wrote:
Luke wrote:The Mayan languages look so cool to me for some reason. And Náhuatl, though it seems like a bit of a tongue twister. tl, tli, lli, pl. I'm less familiar with the others, sadly. I could attempt to learn a bit of everything for a start. Oh, this is going to be confusing.

Yeah, Nahuatl can be a bit fun to pronounce. Though those Mayan languages can get a bit crazy with the glottal stops. :P
Not to mention ejectives and aspirated affricates. :para:
Remis Kalvan | art / ˈfɛɪsˌbʊk | L1: [flag]no-nb[/flag] L2: [flag]en[/flag] reading short stories in: [flag]it[/flag] [flag]es[/flag]

TAC 2012 [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] ([flag]es-mx[/flag] [flag]non[/flag])
Of immense interest: [flag]grc[/flag] [flag]akk[/flag] [flag]egy[/flag] [flag]ar[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]prg[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]qu[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]zh.Hant[/flag]
Wanderlustin' for [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]mn[/flag] [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]af[/flag]

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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-18, 14:24

viewtopic.php?f=105&t=37425&p=807826#p807826

Note the section near the end, which might affect the CSAILC.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-21, 16:40

I've also found the following few dates around August:
Cuauhtémoc Day (Mexico, Nahuatl) - August 2
Cobán Folkloric Festival (Guatemala, various) - late July or early August
Inti Raymi (Peru, Quechua) - June 24
Aymara New Year (Bolivia, Aymara) - June 21

So I think July/August will the starting point for the CSAILC.
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Re: General Discussion

Postby BlackZ » 2012-05-26, 20:58

If you guys are curious to know how Kaingang (or Kanhgág in their language) sounds like, I've found a dictionary with sound files (Kaingang-Portuguese). :wink:

http://kanhgag.org/dicionario
Native: [flag=]pt-br[/flag]
Learning: [flag=]en-us[/flag] [flag=]fr[/flag] [flag=]ja[/flag] [flag=]es[/flag] [flag=]ca[/flag] [flag=]de[/flag]

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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-26, 21:13

Cool find. :)
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Re: General Discussion

Postby księżycowy » 2012-06-16, 1:39

księżycowy wrote:I've also found the following few dates around August:
Cuauhtémoc Day (Mexico, Nahuatl) - August 2
Cobán Folkloric Festival (Guatemala, various) - late July or early August
Inti Raymi (Peru, Quechua) - June 24
Aymara New Year (Bolivia, Aymara) - June 21

So I think July/August will the starting point for the CSAILC.

Well, it's been a few weeks since I've posted my ideas for the CSAILC, and other AILCs, and I haven't heard any ideas, comments, constructive critisms, etc
So, I'll do it as I have planned then! We'll have some fun come August! :mrgreen:
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Re: General Discussion

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-06-20, 20:45

I think your proposal is good.

I don't know yet which language I'll choose. Probably Nahuatl, but I'm not sure.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)


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