Yucatec Maya

Bennon
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Yucatec Maya

Postby Bennon » 2011-01-25, 8:03

I hope/think I'm putting this thread in the right place, despite the fact that most of the threads here are about languages of the US and Canada and that Quechua and Nahuatl have their own forums, but the only other possibly relevant thread I could find was concerning the Tzotzil language.

I'm moving to Oxkutzcab, Yucatán in a couple of months and I'm excited to have a better opportunity to learn and use an indigenous American language, something I've been considering for a few years. I've done Pimsleur's Ojibwe course, but never followed through learning the language on account of the difficulty finding people with whom I can speak and further material.

In preparation for moving to a fairly rural area of Yucatán where I'll hopefully have the opportunity to use and hear it a bit, I've been studying Yucatec Maya. So far I've been using

Maya für Yucatán: Wort für Wort (Grabowski & Kolmer). This provides a good overview of the major points of the grammar and provides a lot of important vocabulary, but it lacks any kind of audio and is structured as a hybrid Phrasebook/Elementary Grammar, which makes it unwieldy to use to learn the language.

Curso Básico de Lengua Maya (de la Secretaría de Educación del Estado de Yucatan): This has audio, but has only a few phrases to which to listen. It's primarily useful for learning vocabulary.

Curso de Maya Yucateco (http://www.panix.com/~bartlett/thoughts.html, listed in the resources here at Unilang)

Mostly I'm posting to see if there are any Unilangers who speak any Maya T'aan, or have studied/are studying it, and if so what kind of sources they used, their experience learning it, etc. Anything you have to add or respond to, please do!

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Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-25, 10:47

Well I haven't studied the language (yet anyway :P) but I do have a one or two resources posted in the 'Learning Resources' thread. You may want to check those out.

Haven't been able to find much (in English anyway) . . . .

Nero

Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby Nero » 2011-01-25, 20:10

I haven't been able to find many resources on it either. Interestingly enough, Yucatec was one of the languages written in the Mayan script, so most of the information I've ever seen about the language had to do with that aspect of it.

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Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-25, 21:05

Good to see you again Nero! :)
Thought we'd lost you. :twisted:

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Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby Formiko » 2011-01-27, 9:32

Bennon wrote:
Mostly I'm posting to see if there are any Unilangers who speak any Maya T'aan, or have studied/are studying it, and if so what kind of sources they used, their experience learning it, etc. Anything you have to add or respond to, please do!


A user on Unilang, Mol Bolim speaks Tzotzil.
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Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-27, 11:15

Formiko wrote:A user on Unilang, Mol Bolim speaks Tzotzil.

Indeed he does. I'm not sure how close the two dialects are to each other, but I can't imagine they're that different as they are spoken in very near-by areas. Maybe he can help you Bennon. :)

Mol_Bolom

Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby Mol_Bolom » 2011-01-28, 16:02

Sorry, I don't come here as often as I'd like, but I do know a bit about where to find information on Yucatec.

Try www.famsi.org, there's a huge dictionary with some grammar on both post classic Yucatec and more modern Yucatec, though I do think much of it is somewhat dated, but it will still prove to be very valuable. (If I remember correctly it even has a some information about classic Yucatec as well). (Thinking about it, I believe "post classic" is the wrong term. Either way it's the language as was spoken around the 1500's or 1600's. Classic Yucatec would be the language that was written in the Codex's and on temples).

księżycowy wrote:
Formiko wrote:A user on Unilang, Mol Bolim speaks Tzotzil.

Indeed he does. I'm not sure how close the two dialects are to each other, but I can't imagine they're that different as they are spoken in very near-by areas. Maybe he can help you Bennon. :)


There are 30 some dialects of Mayan, and only a certain number of them are intelligible to any certain groups of dialects.

Tzotzil is vastly different than Yucatec.
k'u/k'usi (Tzo) = baax (Yuc) = What/Thing (English)
j- / k- (Tzo) = in / in u- (Yuc) = I (English)
in hach uiij (Yucatec) "I am very hungry"
mas chivi'naj (Tzotzil)

(In Tzotzil, the first person pronoun prefix j- becomes -i- when a prefix is used before it. jvi'naj = I hungry, chivi'naj = I am currently hungry, livi'naj = I was hungry).

And this is just the things I can remember off hand.
Though, if you look at the words chivi'naj and uiij (do note that in Yucatec the u before a vowel is pronounced like a 'w') both words are the same, wi' = vi' (Yucatecs don't use a character for the glottal stop).

So there are quite a few similarities between the languages, but that isn't enough to help to learn the language.

in kat = I want (the letter k represents a glottalized k, so if spelled the same way Tzotzil is it would look like "in k'at")
jk'an = I want (Tzotzil)

The k'a- part is similar.

And there are quite a lot that is not similar.

viniketik (Tzo) = uinicoob (Yuc) = Men (English)

Though the winik part is similar, the plural suffixes are different.

Anyway, that is all I can think of at the moment. I don't have any of my notes on hand to give any better information on it. All in all, Yucatec is not very similar to Tzotzil even though there are a few similarities.

Mol_Bolom

Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby Mol_Bolom » 2011-01-28, 16:19

I just thought of something else.

http://groups.google.com/group/tsotsil, at this group there used to be some Tzotzil speakers who came by often, it's rather dead now, though. Anyway, I'll post the texts found on the main page which is in Tzotzil and Tzeltal. Tzeltal is the closest Mayan dialect to Tzotzil, so just look over the words and you can see how different these two are to each other.

Tzotzil wrote:Bats'i k'op (Tsotsil):
Kolavalik ti la ochik ta jts'ibaj jbatik, ta jchanubtas jbatik lek ta bats'i k'op Tsotsil xchi'uk Tseltal k'u cha'al chi k'opojotik ta jlumaltik Chiapa.


Tzeltal wrote:Bats'il c'op (Tseltal de Oxchuc):
Jocolawalic te ochatik talel ta jun internet te banti ya jts'ibay jbatic ta bats'il c'op tsotsil soc tseltal, bin ut'il yax c'opojotic ta jlumaltic Chiapa.


If jocolawalic was spelled using the Tzotzil's spelling, it would look like jokolawalik, and if we were to say the full form of "kolavalik" (in Tzotzil) it would be "vokolavalik", so the j- becomes v- in Tzotzil.

jtz'ibaj (Tzo) is jts'ibay (Tze)
xchi'uk (Tzo) is soc (Tze)

Here's a web site in Tzotzil and Tzeltal.

Though, to be honest, I've used Ch'ol, Ch'orti', and Ch'olti' dictionaries (along with Spanish to English translators and dictionaries) to learn a few Tzotzil words, but this was very rare.

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Re: Yucatec Maya

Postby księżycowy » 2011-01-28, 16:37

Mol_Bolom wrote:Try http://www.famsi.org, there's a huge dictionary with some grammar on both post classic Yucatec and more modern Yucatec, though I do think much of it is somewhat dated, but it will still prove to be very valuable. (If I remember correctly it even has a some information about classic Yucatec as well). (Thinking about it, I believe "post classic" is the wrong term. Either way it's the language as was spoken around the 1500's or 1600's. Classic Yucatec would be the language that was written in the Codex's and on temples).

Now that I think of it, I do remember that site.

There are 30 some dialects of Mayan, and only a certain number of them are intelligible to any certain groups of dialects.

Tzotzil is vastly different than Yucatec.

Good to note. I (obviously) had no idea either way.


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