A question about Nahuatl

[IvoCarog]

Mhm, you are right and "CU/UC" are both supposed to be pronounced [KW] - I get that, but [w] is not [u] it's a different sound and it's easy to be pronounced at the beginning of a word (or after a vowel) but I just can't figure out how to pronounce it at the end (when it's after a consonant) ...?!...
...anyways, I guess I'll pronounce it as [u] (whereever possible) for the time being until I learn the correct way...

[IvoCarog]

Hey it's me again and this time with double-post
So here's my question: the word "pilli" - with the meaning "nobleman/lord" (not "child") has a possessed form "pillō". So my question is - what if we add the suffix "-tzin"? - instead of "nopillō" it's going to be "nopiltzin" but is there any special form that combines the possessed form "pillō" with "-tzin"?! or "pillō" is used only on its own (when there are no other suffixes i mean)?

[csandova33]

Ok... here's a few thoughts on some of the questions:

1) Yes, there is an ambiguity in that the order does not specify which is the subject and which is the object. To chase, would be something like: "Toka". Then, "the dog chases the cat" could either be:
"In chichi kitoka in miston"
"In chichi in miston kitoka"
"in miston in chichi kitoka"
"in miston, in chichi kitoka"
"kitoka in chichi, in miston"
"kitoka in miston, in chichi"

However, the order of the words slightly changes the meaning depending on the emphasis you want to make. For instance, if you want to emphasize the cat, (that "It is a cat" that is being chased by the dog) you would say: "in miston, in chichi kitoka", but if you want to emphasize the dog (that "it is a dog" that is chasing the cat) you can also say: "in chichi, in miston kitoka". In both cases the meaning is the same (the dog chases the cat), but with some slight variation in the emphasis.

However, it's also true that there is an ambiguity in that both phrases could mean its opposite structure: (1) "it is a cat, that is chasing a dog" or 2) it is a dog, that is being chased by a cat.

Because of the context, both ways will probably be understood as the dog chasing the cat. If you wanted to emphasize that is the cat actually chasing the dog, you could indeed say something like: "In miston chichitoka". That way the ambiguity is gone because you create a verb that literally means: "to follow dogs" or "to follow a dog" (chichitoka).

Finally, we have to consider that in modern nahuatl, there has been a great deal of influence by spanish speaking structure. In some regions, the meaning of the sentence varies depending on the position of the words, just like Spanish. In those places is very clear that: "in miston kitoka in chichi" means "the cat follows the dog" and "in chichi kitoka in miston" means "the dog follows the cat".

2) There is no "u" vowel in classical nahuatl. The only instances where "u" occurs is when it comes next to "k" sound, or to "h" sound. However, these two instances are actually consonants by themselves: UH-HU, or UC-CU. Today, some people just use the W for the first case, and the Kw for the second. That way, Tecuhtli would be a mispelling, because there is no "h" sound. Most people write it just "tecutli", but if we wanted to use a more precise spelling, we could write something like: "Tekwtli", and divide it like this: Tekw-tli. And it would be pronounced like: Teuk-tli, because "tekw" does not have two consonants at the end. Kw is only one consonant and it should be pronounced as such. That way, it is clear, why there could not be an "h" sound, because nahuatl does not allow for two consonants together in one syllable. We couldn't have a construction like this: Tekwh-tli, because we would have the consonants "kw" and "h" together in one syllable.

Kw is pronounced by placing your lips as though you were going to say "U", but instead of saying the vowel, say a "K". It should be only one sound. If you use that sound before a vowel, then it sounds like "KU", if you use it after a vowel, it sounds like "UK". For instance, "Kwawitl" starts with the same consontant (KW) that we use in Tekwtli.

As for the "W" sound, it is the equivalent to UH - HU. When it comes at the begining it's just like a U. For instance: Weyi (sometimes written as hueyi, or simply ueyi). When it comes at the end, it is pronounced as the u, and a h sound, like, nocnew (nocneuh). That word should have a slightly exhaled "h" sound at the end.

[VacalleroRealV]

Also how do you tel the who is who when you say something like Maria is the mother of Xochitl?

[csandova33]

Therer are many ways you can say "Maria is the mother of Juan":

Inantzin Juan in Maria
Ca yehuatl Maria inantzin Juan
Inantzin Juan itoca Maria
In Maria in Juan inantzin...

In this case it wouldn't be ambiguous because the mother can only be the female name, but if you wanted to say: "Pedro is the father of Juan", then it can be more ambiguous. For example:

In Pedro itahtzin Juan

This sentence is somewhat ambiguous. If you wanted to specify that Pedro is the father, you could use something like:

Ca yehuatl in Pedro, in itahtzin Juan
Itahtzin Juan itoca Pedro

[pmorris]

Would anyone be interested in taking a language learning test about Nahuatl. I have uploaded the test. Thank you.