Nahuatl and Other Mex Languages (Courses in Mexico)

[Mizton]

Hi, I just considered that it might be useful for some people in Mexico to see this webpage:
Niltze, zan n'ayequilhua, cox nin tlacuilloli cualli ica tlacame nican Mexico:

http://www.inali.gob.mx/pdf/DIRECTORIO_ ... LIZADO.pdf

It's a list of places where one can study languages like Nahuatl, Zapotec, Mayan, etc., within Mexico.
Miec yeyanme campa tihuelitih timachtizqueh tlahtolme quemeh nahuatl, zapotlahtolli, mayatlahtolli, huan occequintin, nican Mexico.

Peace!
Yocoxcayotl!

[kalemiye]

Wow, it's great to learn there are programs to learn this languages in México, I wonder if for languages like Mayan you learn the classical one, or some modern dialect.

By the way, if the post is written to inform people from México, why don't you write a Spanish translation as well ? Prejudices against the conquerors' language? (haha, it's jk )

[Mizton]

Lol, exactly, Spanish doesn't come from Mexico, but Nahuatl does, so a Nahuatl translation is enough hehe, actually I just forgot about Spanish... but yeah i guess i will try to post in Spanish as well.

Lol, quema, caxtiltlahtolli amo tohuaxca mexicame, huan nahuatl tohuaxca, ic tlahtolcuepaliztli pan nahuatl ixachi hehe, amo, zan onitlacah caxtiltlahtolli... quema, neh nitlacuiloz noihqui pan caxtiltlahtolli.

Lol, exacto, el español no viene de México pero el náhuatl sí, así que una traducción en náhuatl es suficiente hehe, de hecho simplemente me olvidé del español... pero sí, creo que trataré de escribir en español también.

[Mizton]

Oh and yes you can learn classical Nahuatl or Mayan in some places, but most places teach modern dialects. Maya Yucateco is the most widespread modern version today. An online course for Maya Yucateco: http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/index_01.html (by the University of Yucatán, Mex)

[kalemiye]

Jaja, me lo supuse . Do you practice Náhuatl with native speakers? Are they all over México or only in certain areas? I think the movie "Apocalypto" was shot in Maya Yucateco, and that was controversial because the Mayans from Guatemala didn't quite agree with it .

[Mizton]

I only have one native speaking friend, but it's not in my city, so I don't see her very often. And sometimes I practice by msn with a pal that is a non-native, but he speaks very well tho, a lot better than me actually.
Nahuatl speakers are mainly to be found in different towns within the central states of the country (Puebla, DF, Estado de México, Hidalgo, Jalisco, Guerrero, etc) and some of the big cities that are also in those states (Mexico City and Puebla mainly). There are about 1.5 million speakers. I'll start a new course next January here in Mexico City, I hope i can make more native friends in there, that'd be awesome.
Apocalypto... yeah, indeed, i think it was Yucateco mainly... but not entirely. And it was a very controversial film, for several reasons. I think it should be seen as a very nice piece of art, and not as a historic document.

[puersilens]

Tlazohcamati huel miec!
¡Definitivamente, muy-muy útil!

[Shinn]

How authentic is the Yucatec Maya spoken in Apocalypto? I read that the lead actor had never spoken the language before. Is the language in the film far more archaic than the Maya spoken today?

I want to learn a native South American language but I can't decide which one to start with. Would Nahuatl be easier (I mean, in terms of finding resources and other speakers) to learn than Yucatec Maya or any other Mayan language? I live in a country where even Spanish is something of an exotic language, so the Internet is the only way I could ever learn them.


¿Qué tan auténtico es el Maya Yucateco hablado en Apocalypto? Leí que el protagonista jamás ha hablado el idioma. ¿Es mucho más aracaico el lenguaje en la película que el Maya que se hablan hoy en día?

Quiero aprender un idioma nativa de Sudamérica, pero no puedo decidir el cual para empezar. ¿Sería más facíl (es decir, a propósito de buscar recursos y otros hablantes) aprender Nahuatl que Maya Yucateco o otra lengua Maya? Vivo en un país donde incluso Español es casi una lengua exótica, así que el Internet es el único manera de que puedo aprenderlos.

[Mizton]

I don't speak any Mayan, but a Mayan pal told me that it was quite similar to the one spoken today in Yucatán. Yes the lead actor had never spoken Mayan, but other actors there were actual Maya people, and some of them had never even seen a movie before. How cool is that

Now, Nahuatl and Mayan are mainly spoken in Mexico, which is not South America yet (North America is Canada, USA and Mexico), but we are part of Latin America There are many native Latin American languages that are still spoken. Just Mexico has 62 nowadays. The most widely spoken all over Latin America are Quechua, then Aymara, then Nahuatl and Mayan. historically, I understand that Quechua and Nahuatl were the most influencial ones, because they were lingua franca for the Inca Empire and the Aztec Empire each (followed by Mayan for the Mayan Empire). There are many resources for Mayan, and the advantage of this language over the other ones, is that nowadays the Yucatec Mayan is considered as some kind of standard, because it is the variant with the biggest number of speakers and it has an academy, a dictionary, and it is well preserved in that region of Mexico (Yucatán, along with Quintana Roo and Chetumal). Nahuatl has more speakers than Mayan, and it is spoken in a larger region (the center) of Mexico, including the capital (Mexico City). It has several dictionaries and an Academy for the language. And as you can see, there is a small but active Wikipedia in Nahuatl, and there is none in Mayan. The disadvantage is that there are many variants of Nahuatl, even tho right now there is a big movement to standarize the language as much as possible. This is the first year (2009) the goverment has launched official Nahuatl courses with teachers qualified with a new program called "Método Clemente" (Clemente Method), and that is the one I will start studying in a few days and share with you guys. There are several books written in those two languages, and last year Samuel Becket's "Waiting for Godot" was published in Nahuatl. I am sorry I don't know much about Quechua and Aymara, but you can find lots of info in the web

[Shinn]

Ah yes, you're right: Latin America would have been more appropriate than South America, I'm sorry.

Thank you very much for that information. A few more questions though - Would you know how different these languages are from each other? Do they share a similar vocabulary or grammatical structures, and would learning one make learning the others easier? I'm still confused about which one to start off with but perhaps I will dabble a little in each and see how it goes
Some people prophesied that the Internet would kill all languages except perhaps English, but the opposite seems to have occurred, thankfully. I am so glad that these languages are being kept alive.

I read the same about Apocalypto too, that some of the cast lived in a setting which is not very different from that in the movie. Ignoring the question of historical accuracy, I am quite glad that such movies are made and in the original languages, if for nothing than to show us how different the way of life was for people in another culture and age, and yet how similar to ours today (400 years down the line, men still indulge in locker-room talk and mothers-in-law are still a pain in the neck ).

[Mizton]

Nahuatl and Mayan are completely different from each other, in grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation. Mayan is a tonal language with lots of glottal stops, and Nahuatl isn't. Nahuatl is very agglutinating, and sufixes and prefixes are used a lot. I see that you speak Spanish very well, so I agree with you, you should take a look at them and decide for yourself.

This is a basic course on Nahuatl from the state of Puebla you can download: http://www.tlahui.com/libros/pdf/email/nahuacur.htm

Plus a song in Nahuatl in youtube :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RHUhEP_cyY

And this is a very good online course for Mayan for you to check, it has audio:
http://www.mayas.uady.mx/curso_maya/index_01.html

Quechua and Aymara don't have anything to do with Nahuatl or Mayan, but I dunno if they share elements between each other.

[Shinn]

Muchísimas gracias, Mizton. O mejor dicho, tlazocamatli (¡espero que eso sea correcto! Lo leí en una página web sobre Nahuatl, no sé que dialecto es).

By the way, if I were to start off with learning Nahuatl first, which variant or dialect would you recommend I start with? Also, your signature is very interesting, is that really a Nahuatl expression?

[Mizton]

tlazohcamati is correct except that an H is missing. TlazoHcamati. And it is used pretty much in all variants as far as I know. Most Nahuatl dialects are very similar between each other. I think the most different one would be the one from Veracruz... and... the Huasteca Nahuatl. I think the 3 strongest variants are those from Puebla, Mexico City/State of Mexico and Guerrero, and they are intellegible between each other. However, the Academy of the Nahuatl Language is in Mexico City, so I would suggest that you start with that one, plus, that's the closest one to the Classical Nahuatl, the one the aztecs spoke. Good news is that's the one I will start posting here starting next Tuesday.

My signature is just a rough translation I did I wonder if it is correct.

[Shinn]

Thanks for the info; I'll look forward to the course you post.

[ILuvEire]

I'll read this course!

Jeg vil lese disse kurs!

[Sean of the Dead]

I'll read this course!

Jeg vil lese dette kurset!

"Disse" means "these", and when using "this" or "these", you need to put the noun in the definite form.

[ILuvEire]

That's one example of the evils of TriTrans!

[Sean of the Dead]

That's one example of the evils of TriTrans!

Haha yep, you gotta make sure to check it on Lexin.