Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-14, 11:18

Don't stop on my account.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-15, 23:44

Ditidaht (diitiidʔaaʔtx)

In my previous post about Ditidaht I studied that the "confirmational interrogative mood endings". They are -qaks (first-person singular), -qak (second-person singular), -qaa (third-person singular), -qakid (first person plural), -qaksu (second person plural). I can thus build the following "confirmational" questions:

ʔukʷaqɫaks (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +qaks) John. = Am I called John?
ʔukʷaqɫak (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +qak) John. = Are you called John?
ʔukʷaqɫaa (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +qaa) John. = Is he called John?

I do not find in the textbook the answers to the first two questions. An answer is given only for the third one (I have to remember the declarative endings -s (first-person singular), -ʔas (second-person singular), -ʔa (third-person singular), -id (first-person plural), -ʔasu (second-person plural)):

ʔukʷaqɫaa John. = Is he called John?
hiiʔ, ʔukʷaqɫa (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +ʔa ) John. = Yes, he is called John
"The suffix -ʔa becomes -a after ɫ and other fricatives" (page 12)

I conclude that the answers to the first two question are as follows:

ʔukʷaqɫaks John. = Am I called John?
hiiʔ, ʔukʷaqɫas (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +ʔas) John. = Yes, you are called John.

ʔukʷaqɫak (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +qak) John. = Are you called John?
hiiʔ, ʔukʷaqɫs (ʔu + kʷaqɫ +s) John. = Yes, I am called John.


NEGATION

The negation in Ditidaht involves to parts: wik ("no"), to which we have to add the declarative endings, and the "hypothetical suffix" (page 13) -uws at the end of the word negated:

(Question): ʔukʷaqɫaa kʷiiqaabɫ. = "Is it called a whale harpoon head?"
(Affirmative answer): hiiʔ, ʔukʷaqɫa kʷiiqaabɫ. = "Yes, it is called a whale harpoon head".
(Negative answer): wikʔa ʔukʷaqɫuws kʷiiqaabɫ, ʔukʷaqɫa hadɫiy̓k= "No, it is not called a whale harpoon head, it is called an arrow ".

wikʔa (wik+ʔa) means "not+to.be3pers.sing" = It is not
I think that in order to say "I am not" and "you are not" I have to add -s and -ʔas to wik: wiks, wik̓as.



Hopi (Hopílavayi)

ng [ŋ] (English "sing")
ngw = ng + w
qw = voiceless uvular stop [q] + w


DEMONSTRATIVE PRONOUNS AND ADJECTIVES (page 28)

i' = this; ima = these; mi' = that; mima = those; pam = that/he/she/it/the (page 30); puma = those/they.

i' tiyo = this boy.
ima tootim = those boys.
pam pooko = that dog / the dog.


OBJECT PERSONAL PRONOUNS (page 33)

nuy = me; ung = you; put = him, her, it; itamuy = us; umuy = you PL; pumuy = them.

Pöösa nuy kuuki (literally: mouse me bit) = "The mouse bit me". Word order is Subject-Object-Verb.


The object of a noun is marked by adding the ending -t (page 34):

maana = girl (subject)
maanat = girl (object)
Tiyo maanat tsootsona (boy girl.obj kissed) = The boy kissed the girl.

The verb maqa (to give) takes two objects: Taaqa nuy kiihut maqa (man me.obj house.obj gave). = "The man gave me a house".


NEGATION

qa = negative particle (page 39). It usually precedes the verb: Nu' put pa'angwa (literally: I her helped) = I helped her; Nu' put qa' pa'angwa (literally: I her not helped) = I did not help her. If I want to negate a particular element of the sentence, I have to put qa in front of it: Tiyo qa kuuyit wéhekna (boy not water.obj spilled) = The boy did not spilled the water! (but rather something else)



Eastern Aleut (Unangam Tunuu)


THIRD-PERSON SUBJECT AND THIRD-PERSON OBJECT

-m (attached to the subject) / -kuu = he/she (subject) - him/her/ it (object)
-m (attached to the subject) / -kungin = he/she (subject) - them (object)

-n (attached to the subject) / -kuu = they (subject) - him/her/ it (object)
-n (attached to the subject) / -kungin = they (subject) - them (object)

Singular subjects and objects end with the suffix -: Ayagaadax̂ lakaayax̂ sismikux̂. = "The girl (Ayagaadax̂) is helping the boy" (lakaayax̂= boy).

Plural subjects and objects end with the suffix -n: Ayagaadan lakaayan sismikun. = "The girls are helping the boys".

When the subject acts on a third-person pronoun (ex. "The boy helps him") it takes the suffix -m: Lakaayam sismikuu. = "The boy is helping him/her". If it is plural, it takes the suffix -n: Lakaayan sismikuu. = "The boys are helping him/her".

To distinguish between "him" and "her I can add inga (him) and ama (her) at the end of the sentence: Lakaayam sismikuu inga. = "The boy is helping him"; Lakaayam sismikuu ama. = "The boy is helping her".


THIRD PERSON DUAL OBJECT SUFFIXES, with examples:

-kuking = I (subject) - them (two)
Sismikuking = I am helping them (two).

-kukin = you (subject) - them (two)
Sismikukin. = You are helping them (two).

-m (attached to the noun) / - kukix = he/she (subject) - them (two)
Lakaayam sismikukix. = The boy is helping them (two)


DUAL SUBJECTS SUFFIXES, with examples:

-kudix = You (two) - him or them
Sismikudix = You (two) are helping him (or them)

-kukix = 1. They (two) - him 2. He or she – them (two) 3. they (two) – them (two)
Sismikukix = 1. "They (two) are helping him"; 2. "He/she is helping them (two)"; 3. "They (two) are helping them (two)".


POSSESSIVE CONSTRUCTION

Adaadax̂ = father

adaadang = my father.
adaadaan = your father.
adaadaan = his (own) father (page 15). Lakaayax̂ adaadaan sismikux̂ (boy father-his.(own) helps). = "The boy is helping his (own) father".
adaadaa = his (the other one's) father (page 16). Lakaayam adaadaa sismikux̂. (Boy.rel father-his helps.3pers.sing.) = He is helping the boy's father.
tuman adaadax̂ = our father.
adaadachin = your (several's) father.
adaadangin = their father.
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2017-12-23, 17:44, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-16, 0:19

I guess for now I can live vicariously through your study of Aleut. :P

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-16, 11:36

księżycowy wrote:I guess for now I can live vicariously through your study of Aleut. :P


:)

The textbook I'm studying for the Aleut doesn't give many explanations. It does not give a chart of the possessive suffixes: I had to reconstruct it from some sentences that are present in the book. You cannot find in it clarifications about the difference between -m, -n, and ... Nonetheless, I findi it interesting, because it offers a great amount of examples.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-16, 12:15

Just for the heck of it, I checked the Aleut Grammar by Bergsland and found the following:
PersonSing.DualPlural
1st-(i)ng-king-ning
2nd abs.-iin-kin-txin
2nd rel.-min-txin
3rd abs.-iin-kin-txin
3rd rel.-iim-kin-txin


Since you're focusing on Eastern Aleut, those are the forms I put above when there was dialect variation. Not sure if that matches what you've found so far. Hope that helps, though.

(Not sure what's up with the blank spot for the 2nd rel. dual. I didn't see anything in the chart. :hmm: )

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-17, 11:05

Thank you, księżycowy!

I will examine this problem in my next post about Aleut.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-17, 11:29

Not a problem. :)

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-20, 21:00

I keep forgetting that I have two textbooks/workbooks and a dictionary for Coeur D'Alene Salish.
I think physical resources beat electronic resources. Especially freely distributed electronic resources.

Though I think part of the reason I forget bout Coeur D'Alene Salish so easily is because of the weird way it's written. I mean, what's up with the ( and ) in the alphabet?

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-21, 0:15

Oneida (Onʌyotaʔa:ka)


tsy (before vowels) or tsi (before consonants)= [d̠ʒ] as in "jump".
tshy (before vowels) or tshi (before consonants) = [t̠ʃ] as in "church".
sy = [ʃ] as in "shore".
s between two vowels is always pronounced [z] as in "zone".
ʔ is the glottal stop.


STATEMENTS (Oneida teaching grammar, by Clifford Abbot, page 22)

lotunháhehle = He is happy.
lo- is the prefix for third-person singular masculine subject.

Amos lotunháhehle or lotunháhehle Amos = Amos is happy.

hetshlo•lí Amos = Tell Amos!
The prefix hets- means "you to him".


YES-NO QUESTIONS

= this particle is an easy way to turn statements into yes-no questions. It occupies the second place in the sentence:

sanúhte = You know?
sanúhte kʌ = Do you know?


"WHO" QUESTIONS (page 23)

úhkaʔ náhteʔ or simply úhkaʔ means "who?". The verb is in the third-person singular feminine:

úhkaʔ náhteʔ yakonúhte = Who knows?
yako- is the third-person objective singular pronoun prefix (yakonúhte = She knows)


NEGATIVE STATEMENTS (page 23)

yah (before the verb) + teʔ- (prefixed to the verb; te- before an h or s):

yah teʔyakonúhte = She does not know
yah teʔwakanúhte = I don't know.
yah tehonúhte = He doesn't know.

The letter l- of the prefix lo- becomes -h- after the negative particle yah.



Creek (Mvskoke)

r = [ɬ] - voiceless alveolar lateral fricative.

[/tr][tr]
Short vowelsLong vowels
v = /a/a = /a:/
e = /ı/ - /i/ē = /i:/
o = / o/o = /o:/
u = /u/i = /e:/


The letter "o" represents both a short vowel and a long one.


TONES

Key syllables "governs the tone levels of the syllables around it" (page 19). There are "always key" syllables. Apart from these ones, all the other syllables can be "key syllables". In words without "always key" syllables, we have to determine which syllable is the key syllable. In order to do that, we have to know which syllables are "light" and which syllables are "heavy".

a. Light syllables are composed of: 1. short vowel; 2. consonant + short vowel;3. short vowel + consonant: efv = e-fv (two light syllables); coko = co-ko (two light syllables; "o" can be either light or heavy; in this word, it is light); este= es-te (two light syllables).

b. Heavy syllables are composed of: 1. long vowel; 2. consonant + long vowel; 3. consonant + either long or short vowel + consonant: ayo = a-yo ( heavy syllables + light syllable, because the letter "o" is long in this word); hēyvn = hē-yvn (two heavy syllable); wakkes = wa-kes (two heavy syllables).


A. WORDS WITH ONLY LIGHT SYLLABLES (without "fixed key syllables") (page 19)

In words that are made up only of light syllables, "the last even-numbered light syllable plays the role of the key syllable" (page 19). But we have to distinguish two groups of such words:

1. When the last even-numbered light syllable is the penultimate syllable, then this "key syllable" has a tone which is higher than the tone of the other syllables. Example: cvpvwv (three light syllables). In this word, the last even-numbered light syllable is the second syllable (-pv-). Since it is the penultimate, it has a higher tone than the first and the last syllable. The tones in cvpvwv are i-2-d (2 is the highest tone, "i" is a slightly lower tone than the following tone, and "d" is a very low tone). I think it is like fa♯-sol-do in music notation (I use the Italian names) or F♯-G-C in English. The book I study doesn't treat tone by resorting to music.

2. "When the last even-numbered light syllable is the last syllable in the word" (page 20), the key syllable is the last syllable in the word. In this case, all the syllable have the same low tone. Examples:
cofe (two light-syllables) - the tones are 3-3 (the tone 3 is lower than the tone 2; fa-fa or F-F in musical notation).
vmefuce (four light syllables) - the tones are i-3-3-3 (maybe like mi-fa-fa-fa or E-F-F-F in music). The initial syllable has a slightly lower tone.


B. WORDS WITH LIGHT AND HEAVY SYLLABLES (page 21)

To determine which is the key syllable in words that contain some heavy syllables and end in a light syllable, we have to check how many light syllables follow the last heavy syllable.

1. If only one light syllable follows the last heavy syllable, "then stress and higher tone will be placed on the penultimate heavy syllable" (the authors tell us here that the key syllable has a higher tone and also a stress). Examples:
honvnwv (ho-nvn-wv; light-heavy-light). The tones are i-2-d (maybe fa♯-sol-do or F♯-G-C). The higher tone is on the penultimate syllable (-nvn-), which is a heavy one. The first syllable has an "i" tone, that is, a tone which is slightly lower than the following tone; the last syllable has a "d" tone - a very low tone.
hoporrenkv (ho-por-ren-kv; light-heavy-heavy-ligh). The tones are: i-3-2-d. (maybe like mi-fa-sol-do, E-F-G-C in music). The "penultimate (and heavy) syllable" is -ren-. It is thus the key syllable, and it carries the highest tone.

2. If more than one syllable follow the last heavy syllable, the final even-numbered light syllable is the key-syllable - counting from the last heavy syllable forward. Examples:
tafvmpuce (light-heavy-light-light). The tones are i-3-3-3. The key syllable is -ce-, because it is the final even-numbered light syllable (counting from the last heavy syllable forward). The situation is similar to A.2.
mvhakv-cuko (light-heavy-light-light-light). The tones are i-3-3-2-d (this is similar to A.1). The key syllable is -cu-.


“ALWAY KEY" SYLLABLES (page 22) (I will treat this topic in a next post).



Blackfoot (Aamsskáápipikani)


PLURALS

Nouns are divided into animate and inanimate. This division is not "logical": humans and animals are animate, but some "things" like stars are animate too. The situation is like the one we find in the notion of "grammatical gender" in the Romance languages.

Plural of animate nouns: -ix. [-iks]. ímita (dog) - ímitaix (dogs).
Plural of inanimate: -isz [ist͡s]. kos (cup) - kosisz (cups).


VERBS:

sumosi (it drops final i) "to get water"

-t- is epenthetic; -ái- is the "progressive" marker.

nitáisumos' (ni-t-ái-sumos') = I am getting water.
kitáisumos' (ki-t-ái-sumos') = you are getting water.
áisumosiw (ái-sumosi-w) = he/she/it is getting water.
áisumosinai (ái-sumosi-nai) = "fourth person" is getting water.
nitáisumosihpinan (ni-t-ái-sumosi-hpinan) = we - exclusive - are getting water ("Inclusive" means "we but not the addresee(s)").
áisumosiop (ái-sumosi-op) = we - inclusive - are getting water (= we and the addressee(s)).
kitáisumosihpuwaw (ki-t-ái-sumosi-hpuwaw) = you all are getting water.
áisumosiaw (ái-sumosi-aw) = they are getting water

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-21, 0:19

księżycowy wrote:I keep forgetting that I have two textbooks/workbooks and a dictionary for Coeur D'Alene Salish.
I think physical resources beat electronic resources. Especially freely distributed electronic resources.

Though I think part of the reason I forget bout Coeur D'Alene Salish so easily is because of the weird way it's written. I mean, what's up with the ( and ) in the alphabet?


I didn't see your message!

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-21, 0:23

Massimiliano B wrote:Oneida (Onʌyotaʔa:ka)



YES-NO QUESTIONS

= this particle is an easy way to turn statements into yes-no questions. It occupies the second place in the sentence:

sanúhte = You know?
sanúhte kʌ = Do you know?


Interesting factoid, Seneca doesn't have the question particle found in (some of?) the other Iroquoian languages.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-21, 0:27

I don't understand your question:

księżycowy wrote: I mean, what's up with the ( and ) in the alphabet?

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-21, 0:37

<(> is used in the Coeur D'Alene alphabet to represent the phyrangal sound. (I probably didn't spell that right. Fuck it.)

<)> is also used for another sound too.

So the Coeur D'Alene language uses the two sides of the parentheses as separate letters of the alphabet.

It looks crappy as shit to me. But I'm assuming typing the language easily was a concern in the alphabet's creation.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-21, 0:47

Ah ah! I thought you just wrote "and" in brackets!


A Coeur d'Alene sentence in traditional writing (http://ivydoak.com/Coeurd'Alene/ReichardTexts.htm):

ne'ku̲ khwi'ya sqi̲'ltmkhw yo 'its'chi tgwe'l sti̲'m ł 'atsa(tsa(i̲pm?

In the phonetic transcription:

neʔkʷú xʷiy̕a sqíl̕tmxʷ yo ʔic̕əči tgʷel̕ stím̕ ɬ ʔacaʕcaʕípm?

I like the phonetic transcription better.

User avatar
księżycowy
Posts: 13146
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-21, 8:31

Yeah, so do I. It looks so much better.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-22, 18:44

Ditidaht (diitiidʔaaʔtx)


STATEMENTS

hadɫiy̓k̓a yaa (hadɫiy̓k-ʔa yaa = arrow-it-is that) = It is an arrow.
hadɫiy̓k = arrow; -ʔa is "third-person singular" of the "declarative mood" (the glottal stop of the suffix -ʔa is absorbed by the letter -k of the noun hadɫiy̓k); yaa = that.

YES/NO QUESTIONS

hadɫiy̓kaa yaa (hadɫiy̓k-qaa yaa = arrow-is-it that) = Is that an arrow?
hadɫiy̓k = arrow. -qaa is "third-person singular" of the confirmational interrogative mood (yes/no questions) (the letter -q "is lost when immediately preceded by a consonant that is in the same syllable" - page 13); yaa = that.

(Answer)
wikʔa hadɫiy̓k. kʷiiqaabɫa yaa. (wik-ʔa hadɫiy̓k. kʷiiqaabɫ-ʔa yaa = not-it-is arrow. Whale-harpoon-it-is that) = It is not an arrow. That is a whale harpoon.
wik = no/not; -ʔa = "third-person singular" of the "declarative mood" (the glottal stop of the suffix -ʔa is not absorbed by -k, if such letter is part of the stem of a word); hadɫiy̓k = arrow; kʷiiqaabɫ = whale harpoon; -ʔa = "third-person singular" of the "declarative mood" (the glottal stop of the suffix -ʔa is deleted after -ɫ); yaa = that.



Hopi (Hopílavayi)


POSSESSIVES

Singular possessives: i- = my; uu- = your; -'at = his/her/its.
Plural possessives: itaa- = our; umuu- = your (plural); -'am = their.

Póoko = dog; ipóoko = my dog; úupoko = your dog; póoko'at = his/her dog; itáapoko = our dog; umúupoko = your (plural) dog; pooko'am = their dog.
I indicate the accent, even though it is not normally written. In the book, in the lesson about possessives there is only the first form (ipooko). Some sound changes take place in the number of vowels of the noun, depending on the number of syllables (see page 11 of Lessons in Hopi, by Milo Kalectaca). I hope I've guessed the correct forms.


GENITIVAL CONSTRUCTION

taaqa = man; ngahu = medicine.

taaqat ngahu'at = "the man's medicine". The possessive suffix -t, used to indicate the direct object, is added to the possessor. The possessive suffix -'at (his/her/its) is added to the possessed thing.



Eastern Aleut (Unangam Tunuu)

ĝ = voiced uvular fricative, like French r.

Adaadax̂ = father; anaadax̂ = mother; lakaayax̂ = son, boy; ayagaadax̂ = girl.
tayaĝux̂ = man.

Lakaayam adaadaa aqakux̂ (Lakaaya-m adaada-a aqa-kux̂ = Boys-' father-his come-s) = "The boy's father comes".
Lakaayan adaadaa aqakux̂ (Lakaaya-n adaada-a aqa-kux̂ = Boys-' father-their come-s) = The boys' father comes.
Ayagaadan anaadaa aqakux̂ (Ayagaada-n anaada-a aqa-kux̂ = Girls-' mother-their come-s) = "The girls' mother comes". Apparently, anaadaa means both "his/her mother" and "their mother", depending on the suffix at the end of the possessor: -m for singular and -n for plural.
Anaadangin aqakun (Anaada-ngin aqa-kun = Mother-their come-s) = Their mother comes. Why is there the suffix -kun and not -kux̂ ? I think because "anaadangin" means both "their mother" and "their mothers" (without a possessor expressed with a full noun). So the verb ending is plural (-kun) and not singular (-kux̂ ).

Tayaĝux̂ lakaayam adaadaa sismikux̂ (man boy father-his helps) = The man helps the biy's father.
Tayaĝum adaadaa sismikuu [Man father-his (the other one's) helps] = The man helps his (another one's) father.
The last two sentences were a mystery to me. Why tayaĝux̂ and sismikux̂ in the first one, and tayaĝum and sismikuu in the second one? The answer is the following (the book does not give any answer): in the first sentence there is an object (lakaayam is the direct object) so the verb must follow the "subjective" paradigm (-/-kux̂). The sentence means "the man helps the boy his-father". In the second sentence there is no object (adaadaa is not a direct object in Aleut): the sentence means "the man helps x his-father", so the verb has to follow the subject-object paradigm (-m/-kuu).

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-25, 12:06

Oneida (Onʌyotaʔa:ka)


The pronouns prefixes vary according to the initial letter of the verb stem (Oneida teaching grammar, page 24). The verb stems are the following:

a-stems: verb stems that begin with "a" (example: -anúhte "to know" - intransitive objective stem).
c-stems: verb stems that begin with consonants (except for a few peculiarities with stems that begin with y or h) (example: -nakehlu "to live" - intransitive subjective stem).
i-stems verb stems that begin with i.
o-stems verb stems that begin with either o or u.
e-stems verb stems that begin with either e or ʌ.

Most of the verbs belong to the first two subclasses (about the 80% of the verbs).

Some prefixes used with intransitive verbs:

Intransitive objective prefixes with a-stem: wak- (I), sa- (you), lo- (he), yako- (she), lon- (they).
Intransitive objective prefixes with c-stem: wak- (I), sa- (you), lo- (he), yako- (she), loti- (they).
Intransitive subjective prefixes with a-stem: k- (I), (h)s- (you), la- (he), yu- (she), lu- (they).
Intransitive subjective prefixes with c-stem: k- (I), (h)s- (you), la- (he), ye- (she), lati- (they).

Example: -atekhu•níhe (intransitive subjective a-stem)

lutekhu•níhe = "They are eating" (the vowel a- has been absorbed by the prefix lu-).

We have to remember that objective pronominal prefixes indicate that the subject is more passive in the action espressed by the verb, or is involuntarily affected by it, while subjective pronominal prefixes indicate that the subject is voluntarily involved in the action of the verb. The distinction between objective and subjective pronominal prefixes depends also on other factors.



Creek (Mvskoke)

1. Honvnwvt yvkapes (man-subject walking) = ‘A man is walking’.
2. Ecot nokosen pohes (deer-subject bear-object hears) = ‘A deer hears a bear’.

Subject has the suffix -t, object has suffix -n, the verb ends in -es, which is the declarative suffix. The verbs are yvkapes (the letter -a- is long in Mvskoke) and pohes. The infinitive form is yvkvpetv (stem yvkvp-) and pohetv (stem poh-). The last vowel of the stem (in these examples, they are v [a], and -o ([o]) lengthens whenever we want to conjugate the verb: v ([a]) becomes a ([a:]), e ([i]) becomes ē ([i:]), o ([o]/[o:]) and u ([u]/[u:]) lengthen in pronunciation, but in writing they remain o and u; a ([a:]) and i ([i:]) and diphthongs are always long, so they cannot lengthen. Finally, we put the personal suffixes. There are type I and type II personal affixes in Mvskoke.


Type I personal suffixes - singular (page 75):

-i- = I; -eck- = you; Ø (null suffix) = he/she.
vpeletv "to laugh"; stem -vpel-; lengthening of the last vowel: vpēl-; addition of suffix -i- (first-person singular prefix):vpēli-; addition of the suffix -(e)s (incompletive aspect): vpēlis: "I am laughing".
The second-person singular form will be vpēleckes: "You are laughing".
Third-person singular: vpēleckes: "He/she is laughing".



Blackfoot (Aamsskáápipikani)


The so-called "fourth-person" indicates a third person which has a secondary importance in the discourse:

áisumosinai (ái-sumos-inai) = "he/she ("fourth person") is getting water". I don't find any sentence that contain the "fourth person" in lesson V of the book I am studiyng (Amskapi Pikuni language lessons)


INTERROGATIVE THIRD- AND FOURTH-PERSONS

-waz (singular) and -wexaw (plural):
-ani- "to say", "to tell"; (affirmative) aniw = "He/she tells"; (interrogative) aniwaz = "Does he/she tell?"; (affirmative) aniaw = "they tell"; (interrogative) aniwexaw = "Do they tell?"
Fourth person: (affirmative) aninai = he/she ("fourth person") tells"; aniwazínai = "Does he/she tell?"

The negative form is regularly formed by prefixing mát- to the interrogative construction:
(interrogative) aniwaz = "Does he/she tell?"; (negative) mátaniwaz = "He/she doesn't tell"; (interrogative) aniwexaw = "Do they tell?"; (negative) mátaniwexaw = "They don't tell".
Fourth person: aniwazínai = "Does he/she tell?"; (negative) mátaniwazinai = "They don't tell"


Simple sentences (lesson VI, page 13):

1. Za aniwaz? = (za = what?; ani-waz = says-third person sing-interrogative)? = "What does he/she says? / What does it means?".
2. Kitóihpa píxi? Sa, nimátoihpa. (Kit-ói-hpa = you-eat-interrogative; píxi = bird (?); sa = no;ni-mát-oi-hpa = I-don't-eat-[interrogative]) = "Do you eat birds? No, I don't eat".
3. Sahkúmapi ki imitáikoan áunoziaw (sahkúmapi = boy; ki = and; imitái-koan = dog-male; áu-unozi-aw = progressive prefix-to be hungry- they) = "The boy and the dog are hungry".
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2017-12-30, 0:20, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2017-12-26, 15:19

Ditidaht (diitiidʔaaʔtx)


baqqii = what?
tii = this.

baqqii tii. (what this) = What is this?
qaʔawc̓a yaa. (qaʔawc/ʔa = pack basket/to be affirmative III pers. singular; yaa = that) = That is a pack basket.


POSSESSIVE

(Vocabulary)

qaliʔ(ii) = eye; dic̓ = nose; p̓ip̓iʔ(ii) = ear; hitʔaqsɫ = mouth; kʷukʷudukʷsiʔ(ii) = palm; kʷakʷaatqac̓ib = foot; čičiʔ(ii) = tooth.

Some of the words in old Nitinaht ended with -ii. This long i has now disappeared in modern Nitinaht, but the sound is retained when the suffix -ʔbadx̌- (plural suffix) is added. When followed by -ʔbadx̌-, the penultimate vowel of the stem drops: qalʔiiʔbadx̌- = "eyes". If I want to say "my eyes", I have to add the suffix -iʔts (my) at the end of the word: qalʔiiʔbadx̌iʔts = "my eyes". The suffix -iʔts- is used only with parts of the self (eyes, mouth, etc..).


Sentences:

qalʔiiʔbadx̌iʔts tii (qaliʔii-ʔbadx̌-iʔts tii) = (teeth-plural-my these) = "These are my eyes"
dic̓iʔts tii (dic̓-iʔts tii = (nose-my this) = "This is my nose".



Hopi (Hopílavayi)


DUAL

The dual is formed by adding the suffix -vit to the noun: maana "girl"- maanavit "girls-(two)". Most dual nouns have a short form in -t instead of -vit: maanat "girls-(two)".
With dual nouns the regular plural form of the demonstrative adjective is used: puma maanavit (those-plural girls-dual) = "Those (two) girls". About the verbs, the singular form is used: pitu "arrive-sing"; öki "arrive-plural". "The two girls are arriving" is maanavit pitu.


PLURAL

There are different ways of forming the plural of nouns. The most common is by adding the suffix -m to the singular form: tsiro "bird" becomes tsirom "birds".
Another pattern consist of duplicating the first syllable of the noun, and then shortening the vowel of the original first syllable (if it consists of one vowel, the vowel is dropped): saaqa "ladder", plural saasaqa "ladders"; tama "tooth", tatma "teeth".
The third pattern is like the second one, but we have to add -m or -t at the end: kwaahu "eagle", kwaakwahut "eagles". Some nouns lose the last vowel: taaqa "man"; taataqt "men".


Sentences:

1. Ima lööyöm taaqavit sipaltsokit saavuta (these two men-dual peach-tree chop) = These (two) men chop a peach tree.
Mima kwaakwahut sikwit nöönösa (Those eagles meat-obj eat-pl) = Those eagles eat meat.



Eastern Aleut (Unangam Tunuu)


I need to better understand the following constructions:

1. Piitrax̂ tayaĝum lakaayangin sismikux̂ = "Peter is helping the man's sons".
As I said in the last post about Aleut, my interpretation of the sentence structure is the following. The verb must follow the "subjective" paradigm: - (subject - Piitrax̂ ) and -kux̂ (verb - sismikux̂) because there is a direct object (tayaĝum = "father").

2. Piitram lakaayangin sismikuu = "Peter is helping his son's [someone else's sons]". I think that the subject ends in -m because there is no direct object, so the verb is in the obective paradigm: -m (subject), -kuu (verb). The word lakaayangin is not the direct object. The direct object is understood: it is "man".

I think the third sentence shows that my hypothesis expressed in 1. and 2. is correct:
3. Adaadang tayagux̂ sismikux̂ = "My father is helping the man".
The direct object is tayagux̂, which ends in - because it is not the possessor as in sentence 1 (in which case, it takes the ending -m); the verb is in the "subjective" paradigm.


POSSESSIVES (revised)

lakaayax̂ = son

lakaayang = my son; lakaayaning = my sons.
lakaayan = your son; lakaayatxin = your sons.
lakaayan = his (own) son.
lakaayaa = his (the other one's) son.
tuman lakaayax̂ = our son; tuman lakaayan = our son or sons.
lakaayachin = your (several's) son.
lakaayangin = their son or sons; his sons.

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-01-01, 18:08

Oneida (Onʌyotaʔa:ka)


NOUS

There are three types of noun:

1. Whole word noun: takós(cat)

2. Noun built from a noun stem: 2.1. A-STEMS: a-stems begins with the letter a-, have no prefix and may have a suffix. Stem -ahta-: áhta (shoe). 2.2. CONSONANT STEMS: they begin with a consonant, have either o- or ka- as a prefix and have a suffix. Stem -wʌn-: owʌ•ná (word, sound, voice). Stem -nʌy-: onʌ•yá (stone)

3. Verbs that behave as nouns: shukwayaʔtísu (shukwa- = he to us; -yaʔtísu = made) - literally: "He has made us" = the Creator; iyʌ́ha (I am parent to him) = my son.


DEMONSTRATIVES

kaʔi•kʌ́ = this
thi•kʌ́ = that (th is pronounced t+h)


Sentences:

náhteʔ kaʔi•kʌ́ (what this) = What is this?
takós thi•kʌ́ (cat that) = That is a cat.

takós kʌ (cat interr.) = Is it a cat?
takós kʌ thi•kʌ́ (cat interr. that) = Is that a cat?



Creek (Mvskoke)


NOUN + ADJECTIVES

Adjectives follow the noun. The suffix -t indicating the subject and the suffix -n indicating the object are attached to the adjective. The penultimate vowel of the adjective is -a- if the noun is definite. It is -e- if the noun is indefinite. Without any adjective, the noun ends in -t (in -at instead of the last vowel of the basic form, if it is -ē) if it plays the role of an indefinite subject, in -n (in -an instead of the last vowel of the basic form, if it is -ē) if it plays the role of an indefinite object. If the noun is definite, it is in the basic form, both the subject and the object:


1. Efv rakkat letkēs (dog big-definite-subject run-3sing) = "The big dog is running". Efv = "the dog". It is the basic form, found in the dictionary. rakkē is the basic form, which ends here in -at (definite subject).

2. Echaswv hvlvlatket vklopes. (beaver slow-indefinite-subject swim-3pers) = "A slow beaver is swimming. Echaswv = the beaver; hvlvlatkē (slow) is the basic form, which here ends in -et (indefinite subject).

3. Cepanē rakkat svtvn hompes (boy big-definite-subject apple-object eat-3sing) = "The big boy is eating an apple". Cepanē (the boy) is the basic form; rakkat = big-(definite subject).

4. Nokose rakket svtv caten hompes (bear big-indefinite.subject apple red-indefinite.object eat.3pers) = "A big bear is eating a red apple". Nokose = bear; rakket = big "indefinite subject": the basic form rakkē becomes rakke (the last vowel shortens), then the ending -t (subject) is added; svtv = apple; caten = red "indefinite object": catē (red) becomes cate, then the ending -n (object) is added.

5. Cepanat svtvn hompes (boy-indef.subject apple-indef.object eat-3sing) = "A boy is eating an apple". Cepanat = "A boy". The basic form is cepanē (= the boy). The suffix -at (instead of -ē), in a noun, is the "indefinite" suffix.

6. Cepanat svtv catan hompes (boy-indefinite.subject apple red-definite.object eat-3sing) = A boy is eating the red apple.

7. Hoktē vholocē hēces (Woman-definite-subject cloud-definite-object see-3pers) = The woman sees the cloud.



Blackfoot (Aamsskáápipikani)


PAST TENSE

There's no really a past tense in Blackfoot. The forms I already studied may refer to a present or a past action. Nitapotaki means both "I work" and "I worked". But to clarify or emphasize the past action, we can switch the epenthetic -t- of the first- and second-person singular to -k-, and in third- and fourth-person we can prefix ak- or ik-:

apotaki = to work

nikapotaki = I worked
kikapotaki = You worked
akapotakiw = He/she worked
akapotakinai = He/she (fourth person) worked
nikapotakihpinan = We (exclusive) worked
akapotakiop = We (inclusive) worked
kikapotakihpuwaw = You (plural) worked
akapotakiaw = They worked
(I don't know if the prefix is correct, since I can add both ak- and ik-, depending on the verb; the book don't show the past form of the verb apotaki).


FUTURE TENSE

We have to add ak-/ax- in front of the verb root

nitakapotaki = I worked
kitakapotaki= You worked
akapotakiw = He/she worked
akapotakinai = He/she (fourth person) worked
nitakapotakihpinan = We (exclusive) worked
akapotakiop= We (inclusive) worked
kitakpotakihpuwaw = You (plural) worked
akapotakiaw = They worked

User avatar
Massimiliano B
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2009-03-31, 10:01
Real Name: Massimiliano Bavieri
Gender: male
Location: Lucca
Country: IT Italy (Italia)

Re: Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-01-12, 16:26

Ditidaht (diitiidʔaaʔtx)


ʕ = pharyngealized glottal stop (a more accurate IPA symbol is [ʔʕ]). Here we can hear it: http://www.firstvoices.com/en/diidiitid ... oming+down.
The initial glottal stop is lost when the phoneme is followed by a consonant, as in c̓uubaʕsaʔtx̌ : http://www.firstvoices.com/en/diidiitid ... han+person

̓c̓awaaʔk means 'one', ʔaƛ means 'two'

ʔaƛiʔts qaliʔ = I have two eyes.

ʔaƛiʔts is composed by ʔaƛ (two) and iʔts (my). The combination of these two words is translated as "I have two...".

ʔayeeʕts čičiʔ = I have a lot of teeth.
The author des not say anything about ʔayeeʕts. Apparently, it is composed by ʔayeeʕ- (a lot of) and -(i)ts (my).



Hopi (Hopílavayi)


I already know the subject forms of the demonstrative pronouns/adjectives:

i' = this; ima = these; mi' = that; mima = those; pam = that/he/she/it/the; puma = those/they.

The object forms are:
it (this); imuy (these); mit (that); mimuy (those); put (that/he/she/it/the); pumuy (those, they).


Object of dual nouns ends in -(u)y instead of -t: maana (girl), maanavit (girls-dual), maanavituy (girls-dual-object)

I'll translate the following sentence: Those women (dual) killed that squirrel.
Translation: Puma wuutivit it koonat niina. (I'm checking the book...my translation is correct!)



Eastern Aleut (Unangam Tunuu)


I find in the book the following sentences along with their translations:

Uchiitilakuqing = I am teaching (right now) (uchiit is clearly a borrowing from Russian, like many other Aleutian words)

Uchiitilax̂ akuqing = I am a teacher.

I can infer that uchiitilax̂ means 'teacher' and akuqing means 'I am' . But the successive sentence make me go crazy:

Uchiitilangin akuning (teacher-their I-am) = I am their teacher.
Why is there akuning instead of akuqing? Is it a typo?


Return to “North American Indigenous Languages”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest