Massimiliano's Powwow Thread

[Massimiliano B]

Ditidaht (diitiidʔaaʔtx)

ɫ = [ɬ] - voiceless alveolar lateral fricative.
ƛ is a voiceless alveolar lateral affricate ([tɬ]).
y̓ is a y pronounced with a creaky voice.
k̓ is a velar ejective (or a glottalized k).

hadɫiy̓k̓a tii. "This is an arrow".
hadɫiy̓k means "arrow". ʔa means "he/she/it (is)". hadɫiy̓k + ʔa = hadɫiy̓k̓a ("it is an arrow"). The final letter k absorbs the glottal stop in -ʔa . tii means "this". So, hadɫiy̓k̓a tii means "it is an arrow, this (one)".

ƛapey̓k̓a yaa. "That is a digging stick".
ƛapey̓k means "digging stick". yaa means "that". ƛapey̓k̓a yaa means "it is a digging stick, that (one).



Hopi (Hopílavayi)

In my previous post I didn't notice that u is a close central unrounded vowel [ɨ].
ö = /ø/
q is voiceless uvular stop.
r is a voiced retroflex fricative [ʐ].
ts = t+s, like in it's, bits, acts...

pooko = dog
qöötsa = white

Pooko qöötsa. "The dog is white" (literally: "dog white")
There is no verb "to be" in Hopi.

Taaqa wari. (The) man ran.
wari marks the notion of completeness of the action. warikiwta is the corresponding durative form. Thus, taaqa warikiwta means "(the) man is-running".



Eastern Aleut (Unangam Tunuu)

q is voiceless uvular stop

alukuqing. I am sewing.
alukux̂txin. You are sewing.
alukux̂. He/she is sewing.
alukun. We/they are sewing.
alukux̂txichin. You all are sewing.
alukux̂txidix. You (two) are sewing

The stem is alu-. -kuqing, -kux̂txin, -kux̂ are the first, second, third person singular endings. -kun marks the first and third person plural. -kux̂txichin is the second person plural suffix. -kux̂txidix is the second person dual ("you-two").

Tomorrow I will deal with Oneida, Creek, Blackfoot, and Montana Salish.

[Massimiliano B]

Oneida (Onʌyotaʔa:ka)

Some transitive pronoun prefixes:

sk -- you to me
ku -- I to you
she -- you to her or them
khe -- I to her or them
hets -- you to him
i -- I to him
shukwa -- he to us


Attached to the stem -nolúhkwa "to love" (the underlined syllable is whispered):

kunolúhkwa -- I love you.
sknolùhkwa -- You love me.
shenolúhkwa -- You love her /You love them.
khenolúhkwa -- I love her / I love them.
hetsnolúhkwa -- You love him.
inolúhkwa -- I love him.
shukwanolúhkwa -- He loves us.



Creek (Mvskoke)

Short vowels
v [ə], ă [a], e [like English ee], u [u], ŏ [ɔ]

Long vowels
a, ē [i:], o

All consonants can be nasal. The nasalization is indicated by a bent dash under the vowel (example: ę)

Vocabulary:

cvhŏcefkv -- my name. The prefix cv- means "my", with inalienable things.
vnhesse -- my friend. The prefix vn- means "my", with alienable things.
pŏkkēccv -- ball player.
Mv -- that
ehę -- yes
mŏnks / mŏnko -- no
Mv -- that

Mary cvhŏcefkvt ôs. -- (Mary my-name-the is) -- My name is Mary.
Mv pŏkkēccvt ôwv? -- (That ball.player-the to.be-interrog.) Is that [person] a ball player?
Ehę, pŏkkēccvt ôs- (Yes ball.player-the to be) Yes, that [person] is a ball player.


Blackfoot (Aamsskáápipikani)

z is pronounced like German z (ts).
x is pronounced like English x

-ài- and -àu- are "progressive particle" - like the progressive form in English, e. g. "I am going". Some verbs require, -ài-, some require -àu-, and some verbs no one of them.
The root -ani (to say) requires the particle -àu-. So, nitàuani means "I am saying", kitàuani means "you are saying"

To ask questions, I have to add the suffix -hpa to the verb stem. The plural of the verb adds only -a at the end of the word:

root ani (to tell)

nitanihpa -- Am I telling...?
kitanihpa -- Are you telling...?
nitanihpinana -- Are we telling...?
kitanipuwawa -- Are you (all) telling...?


Montana Salish (Séliš)

From Selish course book 2, unit 1

ʔ is a glottal stop.

skʷest -- name
skʷskʷest -- names

Possessive paradigm
in- (my), an- (your), -s (his/her/its), qe (our), -mp (your-plural), -ʔ- -s (their).

iskʷest -- my name (in- becomes i-before s-)
askʷest -- your name (an- becomes a- before s-)
skʷests -- his/her/its name
qe skʷskʷest -- our names
skʷskʷestmp -- your (all) names
skʷskʷeʔests -- their names

[księżycowy]

I'm kinda jealous of your study of Oneida. Oneida has a really good teaching grammar that deals with the verbs very well.

Seneca on the other hand has a grammar that I'm not always in love with, and bits and pieces of whatever else I can get. I'm still trying to piece together an understanding of the pronominal prefixes in Seneca, let alone anything else about the verbs (aside from the few things I've posted about this far).

I think I started with the wrong Iroquoian language.
Oh well. I'm not quiting now.

[Massimiliano B]

Yesterday I've noticed that you started a thread about the Oneida language in 2012... I think this is your first thread about an Iroquoian language. It is your first "Iroquoian love", but then you forgot it, and left it alone...poor Oneida...

I forgot to say that I have also Native Languages - A Support Document for the Teaching of Language Patterns - Oneida, Cayuga, and Mohawk, published by the Ontario government.


EDIT: I see now that your first Iroquoian love is Mohawk...

[księżycowy]

I'm quite fickle when it comes to Iroquoian languages. I love them all, and just can't decide which one(s) to actually learn. I can even remember when I was trying to learn some Mingo for that matter.

I do fully intend to return to both Oneida and Mohawk eventually. I think my next Iroquoian language will be Cayuga. Though I'm not sure how far out of the 5 Nations I want to venture, if at all. Mostly due to resources. Though I've thought of learning Wyandot and Tuscarora before. I guess I'll just wait and see if any resources surface in the future. Hell, I might eventually try Mingo again for that matter.

Of course, I'll learn some Cherokee.

[księżycowy]

I was reading your Montana Salish thread. That was a mistake!

[Massimiliano B]

Do you want to learn Montana Salish?

[księżycowy]

I mean, I've thought about it. I've also concidered learning Colville-Okanagan Salish. Not sure which I would actually learn. Plus I have actual books that the Tulalip tribe gave me. I suppose out of everything, I'd hate to waste the resources the Tulalip tribe gave me the most, considering they are actual physical copies, and they were nice enough to give them to me.

Though, since the other two have stuff on the internet, they are very tempting.

[Massimiliano B]

Tulalip tribe speaks (or spoke) Lushootseed, right? I have to admit that I really love this language.
Okanagan is very similar to Montana Salish... but the first language has better resources and a perfect writing system. Workbooks about Montana Salish adopt a writing system developed for writing Kootenay, which lacks pharyngeals.

[księżycowy]

Tulalip tribe speaks (or spoke) Lushootseed, right?

Yes. Some of them still speak it, though I'm not sure what the numbers are.

I have to admit that I really love this language.

Which one?

Okanagan is very similar to Montana Salish... but the first language has better resources and a perfect writing system. Workbooks about Montana Salish adopt a writing system developed for writing Kootenay, which lacks pharyngeals.

You mean Okanagan has a better writing system and resources? If so, I can't comment on the writing system, but I agree on the resources.

[Massimiliano B]

Tulalip tribe speaks (or spoke) Lushootseed, right?

Yes. Some of them still speak it, though I'm not sure what the numbers are.

I have to admit that I really love this language.

Should I have written "that language" instead of "this language"? Anyway, I was talking about Lushootseed.

I mean Okanagan has better resources, especially because of the better writing system. A salishanist wrote me a scrap in which he told me that the writing system of Montana Salish was created originally for Kootenay - a language which, by the way, I'm considering learning.

[księżycowy]

I think I would have made it cleared to say "that language," yes. I kinda though you meant Lushootseed, but wasn't sure because of what followed.

Kutenai, huh? Ooooooh, and it's a language isolate! Cool!

And fuck it! I've decided to learn both Lushootseed and Okanagan Salish! It just comes down to which first, and when.

Anyway, I've derailed your thread enough, Massimiliano. Sorry!

[Massimiliano B]

Ditidaht (diitiidʔaaʔtx)

1) DECLARATIVE MOOD (An introduction to Nitinaht Language and Culture, by Tom Hess and John Thomas, page 4 and Appendix)

-s (first-person singular)
-ʔas (second-person singular)
-ʔa (third-person singular)
-id (first-person plural)
-ʔasu (second-person plural)

If I want to declare "that is an arrow" (hadɫiy̓k means "arrow", yaa means "that") I have to attach the third-person singular to the word hadɫiy̓k

hadɫiy̓k̓a yaa -- (arrow-be-3sg that). The final letter -k absorbs the glottal stop in -ʔa . The suffix -ʔa conveys the meaning of "third-person singular declarative mood". So hadɫiy̓k̓a means "it-is-arrow".


2) INFORMATIONAL INTERROGATIVE MOOD (used with words that are inherently interrogative, like ʔač- "who" or baq "what") - page 12:

-qiks (first-person singular)
-qik (second-person singular)
-qii (third-person singular)
-qikid (first person plural)
-qiksu (second person plural)


If I need the new information about someone's name (that is, if I want to ask "What are you called?") I have to take the interrogative root ʔač- "who" and the suffix -kʷaqɫ that means "call" or "name", then I have to choose the "second-person singular suffix of the informational interrogative mood", which is -qik, and put all together:
ʔač + kʷaqɫ + qik = ʔačkʷaqɫqik (What-to.be.cal-you?) = What are you called?/What is your name?
But there is a problem. There must be a change in the last suffix -qik. The letter q "is lost when immediately preceded by a consonant that is in the same syllable" (page 13). Since -q- comes after ɫ, which is in the same syllable of the letter -q-, this one has to be deleted. So, the resulting question is: ʔačkʷaqɫik -- "What are you called?". There is no rising intonation in Ditidaht, even when we ask questions. There is no use of the interrogation mark.

3) CONFIRMATIONAL INTERROGATIVE MOOD (used to form questions with words that are not inherently interrogative, like "Are you going to school?") -- page 12:

-qaks (first-person singular)
-qak (second-person singular)
-qaa (third-person singular)
-qakid (first person plural)
-qaksu (second person plural)

If I want to get a confirmation about someone's name, I have to say "Are you called John?". In Ditidaht, I have to take the "non interrogative root" ʔu-, that "serves primarily as a stem for the addition of content suffixes" (page 106) such as -kʷaqɫ ("name"); then I have to take the suffix -kʷaqɫ that means "call" or "name", then I have to choose the "second-person singular suffix of the confirmational interrogative mood", which is -qak, and put all together:

ʔu + kʷaqɫ +qak = ʔukʷaqɫak. The question is: ʔukʷaqɫak John. (Are you caled John?) (note that the letter q of the last suffix "is lost when immediately preceded by a consonant that is in the same syllable")

?u- + suffix is often used in contexts where the information is not new. In the above example, it seems to me that the name of the person is John, but I am not sure of it. So I ask him for a confirmation.


Hopi (Hopílavayi)

s = as in "sun"


Taaqa wari. (The) man ran. (wari marks the notion of completeness of the action)
Taaqa warikiwta. "(the) man is-running". ("durative form")

Sometimes the two forms can be totally different:
Kawayo nöösa. (The) horse ran (I think kawayo is a borrowing from Spanish)
Kawayo tuumoyta. (The) horse is-running.

Personal pronouns:

nu' -- "I", um -- "you", pam -- "he/she/it", actually "that" (it can be omitted), itam -- "we", uma - "you (plural)", puma -- "they", actually "those" (it can be omitted)

The singular of nouns can differ quite a lot from their plural:
taawa "man" - taataqt "men", tiyo "boy" - tootim "boys", kawayo "horse" - kawayom "horses", wuuti "woman" - momoyam "women"

This happens also with verbs:

pitu "arrive" - öki "arrive (with plural subjects)", qatu "sit" - yeese "sit (plural)"

Taawa qatu. The man sits (subject anc verb are singular)
Taataqt yeese. The men sit (subject and verb are plural)



Eastern Aleut (Unangam Tunuu)

ng = like ng in "sing"


Object personal pronouns:

ting ("me"), txin ("you", but also "himself", "herself", "itself"), tuman ("us"), txichin ("you all"), txidin ("themselves")

Ayagaadax̂ lakaayax̂ sismikux̂. (literally: Girl boy helps) - The girl is helping the boy.
Ayagaadax̂ ting sismikux̂. (literally: Girl me helps) - The girl is helping me.
Lakaayax̂ txin sismikux̂. (literally: Boy you helps) - The boy helps you.
Txin sismikuqing. (You.object help-I.person) - I'm helping you. This structure is not at all alien to me, since in Italian (my mother language) it is the same: "Ti aiuto" (ti = txin, aiuto = sismikuqing)

These pronouns can be used also for the reflexive conjugation:

Ting achixkuqing. (me help.I.person) I am teaching me (myself)
Lakaayan txidin sismikun. (Boys them help.III.person) The boys are helping themselves (=each other).

The previous sentence is translatable word by word into Italian (apart from the articles, which are absent in Aleut): "I ragazzi si aiutano" (ragazzi = lakaayan, si = txidin, aiutano = sismikun).

I find Aleut very easy...But on page 13 (as I wrote, the book I use is Kawalangim tunugan kaduuǧingin - Eastern Aleut Grammar and Lexicon, by Knut Bergsland and Moses Dirks) there are problems. How can we say: "I'm helping him/them"? In the above list, there are no forms of the third person singular and plural object pronoun...
When the object is "him", "her", "it", or "them", we have to use a different set of suffixes. I think this is an ergative construction. Here is the paradigm (not complete) of the subject-object conjugation, when the object is the third-person singular and plural (with some examples) (if the object is expressed by a full noun, we cannot use them, but we use the subject endings):

-kung = I (subject) - him/her/ it (object)
-kuning = I (subject) - them (object)
Sismikuning = I'm helping them.
But: Lakaayan sismikuqing (lit. Boys help.I.pers) I'm helping the boys (we use here the subject ending, and not the subject-object ending, because the object is a noun)

-kuun = you (subject) - him/her/ it (object)
-kutxin = you (subject) - them (object)
Sismikuun = You are helping him/her/it .
But: Ayagaadax̂ sismikux̂txin. (Lit. girl help.II.person) You are helping the girl.

-m (attached to the subject) / -kuu = he/she (subject) - him/her/ it (object)
-m (attached to the subject) / -kungin = he/she (subject) - them (object)
Lakaayam sukuu. The boy took it.

-kungin = we (subject) - him/her/it or them (object)
Sismikungin = We are helping him/her/it or them (depending on the context)

-kuchin = you all (subject) - him/her/it or them (object)
Sismikuchin = You all are helping him/her/it or them (depending on the context)

[księżycowy]

By the way, for the Aleut, I find the x (I'm on my phone, so I can't type the circumflex above the x, just imagine it's there) shows up better if you use the ipa tags on the forum. Not sure if you knew that or not. I meant to tell you sooner, Massimiliano.

[Massimiliano B]

Thank you for telling me. Can you see that letter correctly now?

And fuck it! I've decided to learn both Lushootseed and Okanagan Salish! It just comes down to which first, and when.

When are you going to start learning them?

[księżycowy]

Thank you for telling me. Can you see that letter correctly now?

(I assume that was just a typo.)

Yes, they show up fine. Though I realized that I was looking at your thread a lot on my cellphone, and it's still a bit screw ball. No helping that I suppose.

And now I can't seem to type x with the circumflex anymore. Huh.

When are you going to start learning them?

I don't know. I kind of have a full plate at the moment.

[Massimiliano B]

Thank you for telling me. Can you see that letter correctly now?

(I assume that was just a typo.)

Yes, it was a typo.

[Massimiliano B]

Oneida (Onʌyotaʔa:ka)

ʌ = /ə̃/ (nasalized schwa)
u = /ũ/ (nasalized /u/)
• = a raised dot lenghtens a vowel sound: a• is pronouced /a:/, e• (/e/) etc..


An Oneida intransitive verb can take either objective or subjective pronoun prefixes (Native languages. A Support Document for the Teaching of Language Patterns. Oneida, Cayuga, and Mohawk, The Ontario Curriculum, page 61): «objective pronominal prefixes are used when the participant has a more passive role in the action or state described by the verb, or is involuntarily affected by the action» (page 62), while «agent (subjective) pronominal prefixes are used with verbs that indicate or suggest that the participant is actively or voluntarily involved in the action of the verb» (page 62).


The objective singular pronoun prefixes are:

wak- = "I" (I thing of Chinese wo - I) (an epenthetic -a- in inserted between the prefix and a verb beginning in a consonant).
sa- = " you".
lo- = "he".
yako- = "she", or "someone".


A verb do not take in any case the same set of pronoun prefixes. The choise between the objective and the subjective conjugation depends on different factors. Here is the verbs núhte "to know" and tunhahele “to be happy” with first-, second- and third-person singular objective pronoun prefixes:

wakanúhte. I know
sanúhte. you know
lonúhte. he knows
yakonúhte. she knows
wakatunháhehle. I am happy
satunháhehle. You are happy
lotunháhehle. He is happy
yakotunháhehle. She is happy
(underlined letters or syllables are whispered)


Subjective pronoun prefixes (they resemble the objective prefixes):

k- "I"
s- "you"
la- "he"
ye- "she", or "someone"

nú•wehse "to like"

knú•wehse. I like it
snú•wehse you like it
lanú•wehse he likes it
yenú•wehse she likes it or someone likes it



Creek (Mvskoke)

I'm studying a different textbook. I find Beginning Creek by Pamela Innes, Linda Alexander
and Bertha Tilkens better than Pum opunvkv, pun yvhiketv, pun fulletv - Our language, our songs, our way, by Jack Martin, Margaret Mauldin, Gloria McCarty.

Creek vowel system:

v = /a/
a = /a:/
e = /ı/
ē = /i:/
i = /e:/ or "ay" as in "day"
o = / o/
u = /u/

The tone system is complicated. Any tonal language is difficult to me, indeed I've never studied tonal languages. I will deal with the tones of Mvskoke in the next days.

The suffix -t indicates the subject and the suffix -n indicates the object (-t and -n have also further functions). The sentence structure is subject-object-verb. The suffix -(e)s ("incompletive aspect") at the end of the verb is the declarative suffix, used for statements.

Estucet efvn celayes. (Child.subj dog.obj is.touching). A child is touching a dog.

The verb celayes (is touching) derives from celayetv (to touch). To form celayes (he is touching) we must first drop the suffix -etv, then we have to put the suffix -(e)s (incompletive aspect): celayes. Mvskoke verbs take subject suffixes except for the third person singular. So, the resulting form celayes means "he is touching".



Blackfoot (Aamsskáápipikani)

COMMAND FORM

-t = imperative singular suffix. From verb -upi- = "to sit down", the imperative is upit = sit down! (you)

INTERROGATIVE FORMS

-hpa = interrogative with singular subjects; -a = interrogative with plural subjects. From the verb -ani- = to tell, the interrogative forms are: nitanihpa (ni- = first-person singular prefix, -t- = epenthetic, -ani- = to tell, -hpa = interrogative singular suffix) = "Am I telling...?"; kitanihpa (ki- = second-person singular prefix) = "Are you telling...?"; nitanihpinana (ni- + -hpinan- = first-person plural, final -a = interrogative plural suffix) = "Are we telling...?; kitanipuwawa (ki- + -puwaw = second-person plural) = "Are you (all) telling...?"

NEGATIVE FORM

mát- = negative prefix; it is stressed. It must be added to the interrogative (!!) form. So, nimátanihpa (ni- = first-person singular prefix; -mát- = negative infix; -ani- = to tell; -hpa = interrogative singular suffix, which here has not its primary meaning) = "I do not say"; kimátanihpuwawa (ki- + -hpuwaw = second-person plural; -mát- = negative infix; -ani- = to tell; -a = interrogative plural suffix; which here has not its primary meaning).
We can add the "progressive particle" -ài- and -àu- to the negative forms: nimátauanihpa (ni- = first-person singular prefix, -mát- = negative infix, -au- = progressive particle, ani- = to tell, -hpa = interrogative singular suffix, which here has not its primary meaning).



Montana Salish (Séliš)

I'll put aside this language, for the moment, since I've already studied it; I want to continue studiyng it, but I will use my old thread.

[księżycowy]

Nooooooooooooo!
I can't see that thread again! If I do I'll be forced to learn a Salish language!

[Massimiliano B]

Don't worry. It will take a long time untill I'll study again that language.