księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-07, 16:57

Or, at the very least, it would be awesome if more tribes went with the same idea and offered free online instruction. That would be the dream right there.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-12, 1:35

So, for this evenings class we covered the following:
Dë’ëh yeya:söh sano’ëh? - What’s is your mother’s name?
_____ yeya:söh akno’ëh. - _____ is my mother’s name.

5:15 - Wis sgae’ (niyonö’sgä:ge:h) heyoähdöh wis (niyoisda:’e:h).
3:52 - Degyö’ (niyonö’sgä:ge:h) nejono:ö’ ge:ih (niyoisda:’e:h).
[So, that basically confirms what I had written before about telling time in Seneca. The things in paraphrases are optional, and a bit more formal. Though niyonö’sgä:ge:h tends to be dropped more then niyoisda’e:h.]

O’gyö:jö:h gä:ha’ koh. - It’s snowing and windy. (literally: It is snowing; it is windy also.)

Dasgöh gaganya’shä’ - Hand me [a] knife. (lit. hand it to me, knife)

We also added the following to the Ganö:nyök:
Da:h ne’hoh dih nëyögwa’nigo’dë:ök - and let it be that way in our minds.

Thus:
Sga:d hëdwa:yë:’ ögwa’nigöë’ döyetinönyö:’ etihso:d söe:kha:’ gähgwa’. Da:h ne’hoh dih nëyögwa’nigo’dë:ök. - We are all of one mind, [and] we give thanks to our Grandmother the moon. And let it be so in our minds.
etihso:d söe:kha:’ gähgwa’ - our grandmother, the night-time orb of light (moon)

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby vijayjohn » 2017-12-16, 7:00

Massimiliano B wrote:It would be like a dream if there were NAILs courses available here in Italy!!

I think you could join the one that księżycowy's taking if you wanted since it's online, no? :hmm:

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-16, 8:21

Yes. I imagine people from overseas could join in just as easily as people from the US.

Some Canadians joined in towards the end of last class. :P

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-18, 22:30

Whelp, I guess class has been postponed until after the holidays (Jan. 8th to be exact). :cry:

So I'm going to do some work in the language supplement and Ganö:nyök in the meantime. I might also print off and work through some of the Fundamentals booklet too.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2017-12-24, 12:29

Today I think I'll talk about the verb "to be" and two particles I've encountered so far:

So, let's take a look at the following sentences:
Söh në:gë:h? - Who [is] this?
Akno’ëh në:gë:h. - That [is] my mother.
Dë’ëh në:ë:h? - What [is] that?
Adogwa’shä’ në:gë:h. - That [is a] spoon.
Otwë́hdä́:’ë’ ga:wisda’ higë:h. - That cup is red. (lit. it is red, cup that)

It can be generalized as follows, the verb "to be" is self does not exist and is expressed either through juxtaposition (as in the first 4 examples) or is understood as part of the verb (as in the last example).

You can, by the way, also ask söh nä:h në:gë:h. Which, coincidentally, introduces one of the particles I want to talk about.

Söh nä:h në:gë:h?
Sgë:nö’ nä:h?

Nä:h is a particle of emphasis.

For the next particle, let’s consider the following mini-dialogue:
-Sgë:nö’ nä:h?
-Ë:h, i:s dih?

Dih is a particle of contrast.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-01-15, 23:02

No, I haven't fogotten about you, my precious Seneca!

I'm not sure if we're having class today or not (as nothing is posted yet and we're a half an hour til the start time), but regardless I'll post something this week. Hopefully in both threads!

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-01, 14:02

Well, class is postponed until Feb. 12th. I guess I'll dig into the language supplement in the meantime.

I also have it on good authority that a web-dictionary and verb book are on their way in the near future! :partyhat:

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 1:18

It felt so good to have class tonight! :partyhat:
I butched half of everything I said, but it was the first time in a while so that was to be expected. :P

We mostly went over previous material, but added a few food items (salt, sugar, butter, etc.).

Our instructor also asked us all about any apps or other things that would be helpful for teaching/learning the language. I guess the problem is, the Seneca Nation refuses to give up rights to the language, meaning that they can't use things like most big companies. Any ideas from anyone that actually reads this thread are most welcome. :)

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-02-15, 5:16

księżycowy wrote:Our instructor also asked us all about any apps or other things that would be helpful for teaching/learning the language. I guess the problem is, the Seneca Nation refuses to give up rights to the language, meaning that they can't use things like most big companies. Any ideas from anyone that actually reads this thread are most welcome. :)

But could they create their own app for learning Seneca? I know there's a Learn Manx app that was created by I think some organization on the Isle of Man tasked with reviving Manx (or something to that effect).
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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 10:18

I guess they are trying to create an app similar to the one for Mohawk and Cauga. Problem is how to get it out there. Apparently the tribe is very stingy.

They could probably self publish stuff, but that might come with other issues for them, idk.

It's kind of a similar issue with the web dictionary. I'm hoping the dictionary happens though! It would (hopefully) be awesome!

Apparently it was a big deal to set up the language website itself. :P

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-02-15, 18:53

księżycowy wrote:Apparently the tribe is very stingy.

What do you mean? I didn't quite get this the first time you said it either. Do you mean the tribe didn't/doesn't want others to learn their language?
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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 18:59

I mean that they do not want to give up an ounce of their rights to their language. They won't do anything that they see as infringing on that. Or so I'm given to understand.

I do not interpret it as they do not want non-Seneca (or even non-Native Americans) to learn their language. I get the sense it has more to do with safe guarding the language so that it's passed on to the next generation. Or something like that.

All of the people (including my current instructor) I've talked to about taking courses have willing said that non-Native Americans can and have taken their classes before.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-02-15, 19:07

księżycowy wrote:I mean that that they do not want to give up an ounce of their rights to their language. They won't do anything that they see as infringing on that. Or so I'm given to understand.

I do not interpret it as they do not want non-Seneca (or even non-Native Americans) to learn their language. I get the sense it has more to do with safe guarding the language so that it's passed on to the next generation. Or something like that.

I guess I fail to see how having a website or dictionary or app or other resources that promote the language and help others learn it constitutes giving up an ounce of their rights to the their language. But perhaps there are intricacies involved I don't know about.
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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-15, 19:08

That's the sense I get. It's probably some sort of cultural thing within the Seneca tribe.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-03, 10:46

It's been far too long since I posted grammar notes here. I feel like messing around with verb endings for a change. I hope to post something later today or tomorrow.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-06, 1:43

Class was a bit funny tonight, as we got to make up fake names and shit. :P

We learned how to negate things and we started learning how to conjugate verbs.

It begins..... :twisted: :P

I need to go to bed very soon, so I'll save posting the details until tomorrow.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-06, 23:24

Here's how to negate verbs in Seneca:
We'll use the example verb gadögweta’.

Here are the non-negated forms (I think I already gave them upstream, but it can’t hurt to review):

gadögweta’ I feel well
sadögweta’ you (sg) feel well
yödögweta’ she feels well
hadögweta’ he feels well

To negate things you add <de’-> before the pronominal prefix:
de’gadögwe:ta’
de’sadögwe:ta’
de’ödögweta’
da:dögwe:ta’

As may be noted, some interesting things happen when the verb is negated.
1. There is lengthening of <e> is all forms. I've been told this is due to syllable count. I have yet to read from Chafe and get a full explanation on it.

2. The sequence <de’> + <yö> yields <de’ö>.

3. The sequence <de’> + <ha> yields <da:>.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-03-06, 23:44

In Oneida you add yah (before the verb) and teʔ- (prefixed to the verb; te- before an h or s):

wakanúhte = I know
yah teʔwakanúhte = I don't know.

I think that Oneida teʔ and Seneca de’ are related.

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Re: księżyc - Onöndowá’ga:’ gawë:nö’ (Seneca language)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-06, 23:48

And I would say you're on the money. :)

From what I remember of Mohawk and Cayuga, they have similar prefixes.
Mohawk also does the extra particle thing, like Oneida.

Cayuga and Seneca just use de-/de’- (respectively) with no extra particle in front.


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