Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

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Koko
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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2016-09-02, 19:14

Thanks for that ^_^ I know it will take time, but at the moment without much introduction to the language, it's so daunting. I think it should seem easier once i'm passed the present tense in most verb types.

Actually, with my little knowledge i can spot "gaa" > "ka" and one past tense marker (i honestly hate how many ways to mark tense in this/these(?) language(s) there are) in Cree is also "kî." I think the difference between kî and the preterite is that the former requires the relative or conjunct form.

I wonder why the relative prefix has a long vowel in Ojibwe but short in Cree.

Your post also reminds me that i have to get in the habit of voicing my consonants. (So hard when the custom is to write them with letters i know to be unvoiced obstruents)

Yeah. The glosses are so weird. The way the affixes come together and everything looks so jumbled but then the translation clears everything up. Kinda exciting to know i (hopefully) will be able to understand them with efficiency.

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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2016-09-03, 19:35

I wonder why the relative prefix has a long vowel in Ojibwe but short in Cree.

Nevermind, it is a long vowel. I got it confused with the future preverb ka-.

Random sentences without checking my notes:

1. Mostos niwâpamânan. We (exc) see the buffalo.
2. Kisêkihitin. I scare you.
3. Sîsîp niwâpamikonân. The duck see us (exc).
4. Minôsa* kimiyikonâwak iskwêwak. The women give us (inc) a cat.
5. Kitêm mowêyiwa nâpêw. The man is eating your horse.

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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2016-09-03, 21:09

Hmm. It seems many words ending in -i have two forms: one that is indeclinable ending in -i, and another that is ending in -ih.

Ex. ôsi — canoe, boat; ôsih (obv/pl. ôsiha) — canoe, boat
mihti — piece of wood; mihtih (obv/pl. mihtiha)

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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2016-09-04, 1:20

Corrections:
1. Mostos niwâpamânân. We (exc) see the buffalo.

4. Minôsa* kimiyikonawak iskwêwak. The women give us (inc) a cat.

I forgot to add the footnote too: [*] I don't know if minôs has to be obviative or not, but I feel it should right?

5. Kitêm mowêyiwa nâpêwa. The man is eating your horse.

I feel ashamed i forgot to make nâpêw obviative. Otherwise the sentence would make no sense!!

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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2016-09-04, 7:49

K oh my god i just confused myself so much and now i don't understand anything.

So the TA obviative infix -im- means the object has to take the obviative -a, right? But then why is it necessary to have -imêw and -imêwak, since when you say something like "He carries the child" (awâsisa nayomêw) child already has to be obviative? Is there an emphasis in saying awâsisa nayomimêw? Or does it mean something entirely different?

Wait wait… the obviative is used when the thing/person referred to isn't present, right? So does awâsisa nayomêw mean the child is present and awâsisa nayomimêw mean the child isn't? But then that doesn't make sense either because for "him" to carry the child the child would have to be there!

Am i just stressing over this too much and the -im- actually doesn't matter that much even though it's in the table given here (page 23)?

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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2016-09-04, 21:12

Hm, i just learned something: even if the dependent form of a noun is very similar to the independent form, they aren't the same. :P (which seems obvious but hush, read below)

I thought -têm was |têmw| and thus became -têmwak and -têmwa in the plural and obviative. Like how atim -> atimwak But nope, it's |têm|, no w in the s(tem) [ :P ] at all.

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Re: Nêhiyawêwin for the Nêhiyaw, Koko

Postby Koko » 2018-02-08, 4:03

ᐊᐦᐋ ᓂᓅᐦᑌᑲᐧᓯᐸᔨᐣ ᐊᓄᐦᐨ, ᒥᖪᐦᑳᐧᒼ
ahâ ninôhtîkwasipayin anohc, mithohkwâm

i'm hoping this is right? :lol: supposed to say okay i'm getting tired now, goodnight/sleep well
----- ᐱᑕᓀ ᐁᑯᓯ ᐃᓯ ᓂᒥᖬᐧᓯᓇᐦᐁᐣ ? ᓂᓅᐦᑌᐃᑖᐧᐣ: -----

oh... also i should change the name of the thread to "nihithowiwin for the nihithaw" :P since i'm doing woods cree, not plains.
Last edited by Koko on 2018-02-08, 10:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: (Plains) Cree— Nêhiyawêwin

Postby Koko » 2018-02-08, 4:56

vijayjohn wrote:The word for 'a lot' in Michif is apparently [mɪʃˈtʃɛt] (learnmichif.com spells this as <mishchet>). I'm guessing that's related to mist 'big'.

I never bothered to find the Cree equivalent, but this does appear to be the case :) there are two words: mistahi (much, a lot, lots, very much so) and miscahîs which seems to be where the michif word comes from ("a good deal, quite a bit"). i`m not sure what the suffix -ahi means....

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Re: Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

Postby Koko » 2018-02-08, 12:59

I've been so confused about whether the y in the Plains -êyiht-/-êyim- affix was a reflex of *r or just a simple y, and then in the Woods Cree wikipedia i see the word mithwīthihtam and BOI am i happy. I've looked at this page many times before, and just now it dawned on me.

FINALLY i can progress slightly further with slightly more confidence using words that have the "by mental action" affix.

------------------

also, it seems the -im- suffix is used in derivation for forming companion verbs, or just a general action (but transitive) (i'm not sure how good an explanation that was, in fact i'm pretty sure it was awful and doesn't give any clue as to what i mean so here are examples:)

ᒣᒋᓱᐤ (micisow, eat) -> ᐁᐧᒋᒣᒋᓲᐤ (wîci-mîcisômîw, eat with s.o; have s.o as a dinner companion)
(also same kinda -im- is used in wîci-minihkwîmîw, have s.o as a drinking buddy, drink with s.o)
ᑫᐢᑯᓭᐤ, ᑫᐧᐢᑯᓭᐤ (kîskosîw/kwîskosîw, whistle) -> ᑫᐧᐢᑯᓭᒣᐤ (kwîskosîmîw, whistle to s.o)

and that's all the examples i can be bothered to give right now :lol:

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Re: Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-08, 14:51

Wait, you're doing Woods Cree now? Out of curiosity, what are you using to learn it?

I imagine that learning one form of Cree will help you understand/learn another, as I thought that you wanted to learn Plains Cree over the other dialects.

I've tossed around the idea of learning Eastern Cree myself, and may yet someday.

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Re: Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

Postby Koko » 2018-02-08, 15:35

Yeah, i was learning the Plains dialect, but i switched to Woods as that is the dialect of my band. I can't study my heritage language in the wrong dialect now can i? :P

Ehhh, i've found a few actual resources for woods cree this for example, but mostly i just follow the grammar i was using for plains but woods cree-ize the words if need be (change ê to î, convert y to th when appropriate). i've found the wikipedia article on the dialect useful as well. One of the dictionaries I use also provides Woods versions of some words, but it's still mostly Plains.

tbh i'm pretty sure that the only thing that distinguishes woods from plains is the merge of e and î, and the th reflex of *r. The grammar and vocabulary is otherwise much the same for the two dialects.

However, one thing i think i've discovered is that for "mom" and "dad," Woods prefers nimâmâ and nipâpâ, whereas Plains prefers nikâwiy and nohtâwiy. But i wonder if that's an accurate assumption.

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Re: Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

Postby księżycowy » 2018-02-08, 15:50

Koko wrote:Yeah, i was learning the Plains dialect, but i switched to Woods as that is the dialect of my band. I can't study my heritage language in the wrong dialect now can i? :P

Ah, I see. I thought you had Plains Cree heritage. My mistake.

And you most certainly can't learn your heritage language in the wrong dialect! :P

Ehhh, i've found a few actual resources for woods cree this for example, but mostly i just follow the grammar i was using for plains but woods cree-ize the words if need be (change ê to î, convert y to th when appropriate). i've found the wikipedia article on the dialect useful as well. One of the dictionaries I use also provides Woods versions of some words, but it's still mostly Plains.

Yeah, from what I've seen, it's very hard to come by a good Cree textbook. The most comprehensive one I've found is for Eastern (a.k.a. Moose/Swampy) Cree.

I find it unfortunate and slightly disheartening that many NAILs don't have better resources. But we take what we can get, right? :)
Are you in contact with or live nearby your band? Sometimes they can direct you to stuff. I assume that you don't live on nation (not sure if that's the appropriate term for Canada), but correct me if Iḿ wrong.

tbh i'm pretty sure that the only thing that distinguishes woods from plains is the merge of e and î, and the th reflex of *r. The grammar and vocabulary is otherwise much the same for the two dialects.

I could see that. It seems that aside from some vocabulary differences, the dialects mostly differ in phonological changes. Or so I'm given to understand from what little knowledge I have on the subject.

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Re: Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

Postby Koko » 2018-02-08, 16:19

księżycowy wrote:Ah, I see. I thought you had Plains Cree heritage. My mistake.

No worries i even made that mistake myself :lol:

I find it unfortunate and slightly disheartening that many NAILs don't have better resources. But we take what we can get, right? :)
Are you in contact with or live nearby your band? Sometimes they can direct you to stuff. I assume that you don't live on nation (not sure if that's the appropriate term for Canada), but correct me if Iḿ wrong.

Unfortunately I'm not anywhere near my band. They're up in Northern Alberta and we're down here in southern BC lol,

And we say "live on reserve." :)

I could see that. It seems that aside from some vocabulary differences, the dialects mostly differ in phonological changes. Or so I'm given to understand from what little knowledge I have on the subject.

The few paragraphs (longer than 3 sentences) I've seen in Woods Cree seem to confirm this speculation, which would make it so much easier for those of us who are learning non-Plains dialects.

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Re: Nîhithowîwin for the Nîhithaw, Koko

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-04-30, 21:28

I forgot that you specifically had Woods Cree heritage, too. :P


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