Bijlee- Creek (Mvskoke)

[Bijlee]

Alright. So I'll be doing Creek or Muscogee or whatever you want to call it! I'll be using any resources I can find online. Unfortunately I can't afford to buy the Beginner's Creek book on my non-existent salary.
Mostly I'll be using these three pdf files:
http://web.wm.edu/linguistics/creek/tex ... df?svr=www
http://web.wm.edu/linguistics/creek/tex ... df?svr=www
http://web.wm.edu/linguistics/creek/tex ... df?svr=www

I've already been going through pronunciation and some of the the first grammar stuff. I'll try to keep up with posting(unlike my TAC topic). I'll try to post some things that I learned within the next day or two.

[księżycowy]

That's a pretty good textbook, but there are some omissions and such. If you need any help with anything let me know and I can try consulting Beginning Creek and/or Intermediate Creek.

[Bijlee]

That's a pretty good textbook, but there are some omissions and such. If you need any help with anything let me know and I can try consulting Beginning Creek and/or Intermediate Creek.

Thanks!! I'll keep that in mind I've been using your Muskogee topic(viewtopic.php?f=122&t=36792) for learning tones since the pdf didn't really hit on it. If there's anything important about that that you didn't put, that'd be great.

I've been getting my way through the first few sections though. I'll make another post tonight with some stuff.

[księżycowy]

Thanks!! I'll keep that in mind

No problem.

I've been using your Muskogee topic(http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=36792) for learning tones since the pdf didn't really hit on it. If there's anything important about that that you didn't put, that'd be great.

Yeah, I hope to one day revive that thread. Muskogee is a fascinating language.
And I don't believe I left anything out, but I'll double check tomorrow just to be on the safe side.

[Bijlee]

Yeah, I hope to one day revive that thread. Muskogee is a fascinating language.
And I don't believe I left anything out, but I'll double check tomorrow just to be on the safe side.

Thanks
And yes it is!

I'll make another post tonight with some stuff.

I lied, I'll post right now

[Bijlee]

Alright, I'll make a summary of what I've been learning so far. I'm going to skip going over the phonology I learned, because.... well I just don't want to to be honest.
The alphabet in Creek is a bit confusing though because vowels are really different from the way we'd think to pronounce them in English.
Anyway, of course I learned some basic phrases such as:

estŏnkô: How are you?

estŏnkis os: I'm fine.

enkâ: Okay

herē/here-mahē: Good/ very good

Cehecarēs: I'll see you

______ cvhŏcefkvt ôs: My name is ______.


ehe: yes

mŏnks, mŏnko: no
____________________________________________________________________________________

I learned this/that constructions. You put a "t" on the thing that this or that is. You can also add a "t" on this/that(Heyv(t)/Mv(t)). Further, to make a question you add a 'v' to the end. It looks like the s in ôs changes to w too.

The examples the pdf gave are:

Heyv(t) cokvt ôs. This is a book.
Heyv(t) cokvt ôwv? Is this a book?
Mv(t) eshoccickvt ôs. That is a pen.
Mv(t) eshoccickvt ôwv? Is that a pen?

Cokv: book
Eshoccickv: pen

But when the answer is a "long" one(as the pdf said O.o), you add 'a".

Heyv eshoccickvt ôs. This is a pen.
Heyv nâket ôwa? What is this?
Eshoccickvt ôs. It's a pen.
Mv cokvt ôs. That is a book.
Mv nâket ôwa? What is that?
Cokvt ôs. It's a book.

nâke: what
____________________________________________________________________________________

Now, I'll stop here for now because this is a long post. I'll add more later and show some of my own sentences with what I've learned.

[Bijlee]

I'm really sucking at this. I only just got to the second pdf stuff. I need to update here too. I will today or tomorrow night.

[księżycowy]

It's not a race.

[Bijlee]

It's not a race.

I know

II will today or tomorrow night.

I lied again :X. I don't know why I find it so hassle-some to update. I'm still learning Creek though, even though I never update.

[księżycowy]

I lied again :X. I don't know why I find it so hassle-some to update. I'm still learning Creek though, even though I never update.

That's all that matters.

[Bijlee]

I think I'm about done with this...session(?) of Creek. I haven't been doing anything with it for the past two weeks. But I at least got through the 2nd pdf- and I lasted a bit longer than the one month. I think I will come back next year and I'll get the Beginning Creek book because it's a fun language.
And then maybe I'll actually follow through and try to make some sort of prose because I know I'd completely fail at it if I tried right now...

[księżycowy]

Sounds like a plan! And I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[Bijlee]

Powwow 2013!

I will use my old thread for this year too.

What I'll be using:
Along with the odd supplementary resource, I'm going to be using Beginning Creek, which I'll order soon. I also have a PDF of Intermediate Creek and still will use the group of three PDF files mentioned in my first Powwow.
The dictionary I have is a bit outdated, being from 1914. Since I'm only a beginner, I don't think that will be too hindering. Besides, I can use the one of the (incomplete) ones online.
I could have sworn I had a grammar on my computer too... I guess I was thinking of some other language. Oh well. Regardless, I think I should be pretty set as far as resources go.

I can't wait to get my book here! I have already started looking at the three PDFs again, but nothing worth posting about. Just reacquainting myself with pronunciation and all that. I'm going to have to get used to dealing with Creek's weird way of transcribing vowels again. It's not nearly as bad as I remember it though.

[Bijlee]

I will do the exercises from the third section on page 16 of the first PDF file.

1.) Nikki cvhŏcefkvt ôs.
cv- = my
hŏcefkv= name
ôs=is

Yv vnhesset ôs.
(he)yv= this
vn= my
hesse= friend

Pŏkkēccvt ôs.
pŏkkēccv= ballplayer

Hŏktēt ôs.
hŏktē= woman.

My name is Nikki. This is my friend. She's a ballplayer. She's a woman.

2.) a. Ehę, hŏktēt ôs.
b. Ehę, vnhesset ôs. [I would think I would answer saying it's your friend, but the lesson didn't teach that.]
c. Ehę, hŏnvnwvt ôs.
d. Ehę, vnhesse pŏkkēccvt ôs.
e. Ehę, Mary hŏktēt ôs.

a. Yes, [this] is a woman. b. Yes, [this] is my friend. c. Yes, [this] is a man. d. Yes, my friend is a ballplayer. e. Yes, Mary is a woman.

3.) a. Cokvt ôwv?
b. Mvhayvt ôwv?
c. Pŏkkŏt ôwv?
d. Hŏktēt ôwv?

a. Is [it] a book? b. Is [s/he] a teacher? c. Is [it] a ball? d. Is [s/he] a woman?

[Bijlee]

Here's a lullaby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x3wafd5Pt0
I found a couple hymns sung in Creek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7SLaNPkzBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP72njXnn7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPTAh1WSLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4lA0UmoNA

I like the lullaby and Sweet By-and-By. Margaret Mauldin has a very soothing voice.

Edit:
Sweet By-and-By score
Christ Crucified score
Other hymns' scores

[Bijlee]

I got my book a couple days ago! It's looking pretty good. My only complaint is the CDs. They decided to make a track for saying each letter of the alphabet. It's really a non-issue, but it just... irks me. I can't imagine what their thought process was in doing that. But besides for that, I really the set-up.
There are some very minor differences in orthography from the PDFs I've been using, but it's nothing distracting... I like the orthography in the book more, anyhow.

Well, so far I've been reading the first two chapters- both of which have to do with the phonology of Creek. I'm still trying to internalize the tonal accent system by listening to the words. I think I'm getting much better with them. It's a fairly consistent pattern. I ended up ignoring tones for the most part last year because of not having the book or any audio for the PDFs, but I'm going to learn them this time around.

I've also started reading the third fourth chapter. They go over some grammar on word-order and adjectives. The third chapter taught about the SOV word-order and about adding "t" to the end of the word to make it an subject.. It also briefly mentioned suffixing "n" on a word to make it the direct object, but didn't give many examples. The fourth chapter expands on this and says that using these suffixes is only if the words are indefinite.
Then, if you want to use an adjective, then you remove the suffix from the word and put it on the adjective instead. You also must change the "ē" to be "a" on a definite adjective and change the "ē" to "e" on an indefinite one(most adjectives end in ē) and put the "t" or "n" on. Example:

Definite:
Nokose rakkat svtv catan hompes.
The big bear is eating the red apple.

Indefinite:
Nokose rakket svtv caten hompes.
A big bear is eating a red apple.

Nokose: bear
rakkē: big
svtv: apple
catē: red
hompetv: to eat

The third chapter also went over the third person singular declarative suffix for type I verbs, which, in short, is -(e)s. The infinite form ends in etv. In order to form our verb, the infinitive ending is removed in the final vowel is lengthened. The vowel lengthening is most obvious in verbs like "letketv" (to run) where the stem would become "lētk". Other verbs, like "hompetv" above, don't have it so clearly transcribed.
Vowel length:
Short -> long
v -> a
e -> ē
i -> i (always long)
o -> o
u -> u (always short)

Here are a couple example sentences:

Hoktēt ayes.
A woman is going.

vyetv (to go) -> ay-

Toloset rakkon hēces.
A chicken sees a horse.

hecetv(to see) -> hēc-

tolose: chicken
rakko: horse
___________________________________________________________________________________

I will end here now! Sorry too for being bad at explaining.

[Bijlee]

I found Legends of the Seminoles by Betty Mae Jumper at my library the other day. I've been trying to find some traditional stories by Creek-speaking tribes because I thought it would be nice to find a nice short one to translate for the end of the Powwow. I really like reading about myths and religions, but it's hard to find things on traditional religions of the Seminole and Creek people. I found some stories online, but it's hard to tell if they are really from the tribe or not. A lot of the sites don't look very reputable.

[razlem]

It surprises me how different Creek is from the other Muskogean languages

[księżycowy]

You've probably seen this before, but the website that the pdf textbook came from has some stories. They have quite a few mythological/folk tales there.

http://lingspace.wm.edu/lingspace/creek/texts/

The only thing that sucks as far as doing one of those for the Powwow is that most of them are already glossed, translated, and grammatically broken down.

[Bijlee]

It surprises me how different Creek is from the other Muskogean languages

Is it so different? What about it is?

You've probably seen this before, but the website that the pdf textbook came from has some stories. They have quite a few mythological/folk tales there.

http://lingspace.wm.edu/lingspace/creek/texts/

The only thing that sucks as far as doing one of those for the Powwow is that most of them are already glossed, translated, and grammatically broken down.

Yeah, I know about that site. It's really cool, but for that reason it's not a good idea for me to use to make the text. I could rewrite the story in my own words, but I know I would be too tempted to cheat.

I like these myths and stories, but I also wish there were more to read on traditional, pre-Christian religious beliefs (as in the afterlife, deities, and the such). Do you know anything that talks on things of that nature?