Powwow Story 2011

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księżycowy
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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2011-12-21, 10:07

Struth's working on one, but it's a doozy.
I only wish I could have helped him more.

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2011-12-21, 23:13

Alright then. Good luck Struth. Oh, and I can't wait to see it! I'm sure it will be great. :)
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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Struthiomimus » 2011-12-31, 4:39

Sorry. Thanks for your patience. Yeah, I've been a bit busy lately...

Kaylee wrote:Oh, and I can't wait to see it! I'm sure it will be great.


Oh, but it's not. It's more like a huge mess...

"Čha waná híƞhaƞna yúƞkȟaƞ makȟóčhe waƞ kȟapi k’uƞ hétu čha anúƞkȟataƞhaƞúpi na paǧeya nážiƞpi čhaƞkhé heháƞl waná tȟakíčhikpapi škhé."

My attempt:

"And so it was already morning, and then, they indicated a place, as you know, it is there that they were on both sides and stood threateningly. Therefore, it is said, they attacked each other right away."


čha - conj. "and so, consequently, therefore"
waná - adv. "now, already, right away"
híŋhaŋna - v. to be morning (also "morning," and "in the morning")
yuŋkȟáŋ - conj. "and here, and then, and so"

makȟóčhe - n. "land, country, place"
kȟápi - 1. "they imply, signify, indicate" 2. "they refer to, mention"

hétu - "it is there"
anúƞkȟataƞhaƞ - "on both sides, reciprocally"
paǧeya - threateningly, intimidatingly
nážiƞpi - 1. "they stand" 2. "they exist (in a certain condition)"

heháŋl - adv. "then, next"
tȟakíčhikpA - v. "to attack each other"
škhé - encl. "it is said, it is reported"

My biggest problem was "k’uƞ," which can be a definite article meaning "the aforementioned." But it can also be an enclitic meaning "as you know, as I have already said," or one of the ways to express "because." We need a more advanced Lakhota speaker here. :/ Księżycowy, what does the translation say?

Also, K, I think you should take over my last part of the translation...as I don't trust myself not to take another month to do it :silly:
[flag=]wbp[/flag] [flag=]qu[/flag] [flag=]eo[/flag] [flag=]wo[/flag] [flag=]rom[/flag] [flag=]csb[/flag] [flag=]lkt[/flag]

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2011-12-31, 11:58

Struthiomimus wrote:We need a more advanced Lakhota speaker here. :/ Księżycowy, what does the translation say?

Yes, we probably do need an advanced speaker.

As far as the "translation," as I believe I've said before, it's not really a translation. It more or less is a paraphrasing with certain things changed. I should have picked a story with an actual translation. That was my fault. :oops:

At any rate, I'll see what it says to see if it can shed any light here.

Also, K, I think you should take over my last part of the translation...as I don't trust myself not to take another month to do it :silly:

By all means. I don't mind.

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-01, 5:25

I actually think it looks good, Struth! :waytogo: Besides, we are still learning. :D Great work!

Oh yea, almost forgot to ask. Who is next now?
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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-01, 14:04

That would be me. So:

Sentence:
Yúƞkȟaƞ lé núm eháƞni wíwahokičhiyapi k’uƞ henáuƞs waƞkátaƞhaƞla iyákičhiȟpayapi na kičhízapi čhaƞkhé kȟoháƞ uƞmápi kiƞ waƞwíčhayaƞg nážiƞpi škhé.

Translation:
And long ago :?: these two were commanded :?: to fight each other, they fought each other while mounted while the others stood watching.

Glossing:







Yúƞkȟaƞnúmeháƞniwíwahokičhiyapi
and herehere/thistwolong agothey forewarned/commanded
k’uƞhenáuƞswaƞkátaƞhaƞlaiyákičhiȟpayapina
the pastthose twowhile mountedthey attack each otherand
kičhízapičhaƞkhékȟoháƞuƞmápikiƞ
they fight each otherand someanwhilethe rest/othersthe
waƞwíčhayaƞgnážiƞpiškhé
*see below**see below*"it is said"


Notes:
-waƞwíčhayaƞg nážiƞpi = "they stand and watch"

-This was another difficult sentence, but I think I did an alright job. :hmm:
I don't quite get a few items in the beginning of the sentence, like eháƞni, or wíwahokičhiyapi.

And now it's your turn Kaylee. :mrgreen:
And since I'm now taking Struth's part in the last sentence, do we want to split that sentence any particular way? Or just try it the way it is? (I'll need to remember how I split it in that case)

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-02, 4:20

@księżycowy:
I looked up "eháŋni" and it is used in many different ways, so the dictionary did not help much when I checked. :( "wíwahokičhiyapi" is "an agreement", like "Léčhel wíwahokičhiyapi > Such was their mutual agreement.". But I don't think that's it because of the "fight each other" in the translation. >.>

Alright! I'll have my translation up soon! Working on it now! :mrgreen:

EDIT:

Here is mine. Hope its good. :blush:

RAW:
Waná kičhíkte pi čha uŋmá t’íŋ na uŋmá íŋš eháke niyáŋ škhé

TRANSLATED:
Now for the last time they killed each other and so they rescued one/ of the others.

GLOSS:

Waná
Now

kičhíkte
to kill each other

pi
A command spoken by women

čha
and so, consequently, therefore, hence; because

uŋmá
the other of two, the one of the two; the other, the others, the rest

t’íŋ
iŋ-ablaut of t’Á: to die, to be dead (occasionally means 'to lose consciousness', 'to faint')

na
triggers iŋ-ablaut; speakers often make a short pause after na | indicates an informal command spoken by a woman (often omitted)

uŋmá
the other of two, the one of the two; the other, the others, the rest

íŋš
he, she, it; they; as for him/her/it/them

eháke
for the last time, as the last, lastly

niyáŋ
to save sb, cause sb to live, revive one, rescue | to be inflamed, have a body part inflamed or sore

škhé
it is said, so they say, it is reported


Split the last Struth sentence? :hmm: I would have to translate the last sentence of mine first to see if I can do it. :blush: But I'll go with whatever you decide. :)
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Learning:lkt (lkt) Next: ru (ru) af (af) bo (bo) ar (ar) cy (cy)/gd (gd)

Thanks to hashi, ronin319, razlem, johntm, Lenguas, jake12,Milya0 and YngNghymru for literally teaching me from nothing, to something big! Thank you guys so much!

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-02, 12:18

Kaylee wrote:@księżycowy:
I looked up "eháŋni" and it is used in many different ways, so the dictionary did not help much when I checked. :( "wíwahokičhiyapi" is "an agreement", like "Léčhel wíwahokičhiyapi > Such was their mutual agreement.". But I don't think that's it because of the "fight each other" in the translation. >.>

Yeah, I don't know myself. I don't know where I got the other translation for wíwahokičhiyapi. From the reader, I'm hoping. :para:

Split the last Struth sentence? :hmm: I would have to translate the last sentence of mine first to see if I can do it. :blush: But I'll go with whatever you decide. :)

If everyone remembers correctly (and I know I do), the last sentence in the story was quite long, so I originally split it in half and gave you each a half. And now I'm doing Struth's half.
But if you want to try the whole thing, I won't stop you. :P

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-03, 6:21

Oh, I thought you meant something else entirely. :blush: I don't think I can handle two long sentences in a row, so I'm afraid I can't. :oops:

*oh, if I don't appear for a really long time its because my PC no longer receives my monitor, mouse or keyboard -- something that reports it as inactive. I'll try to get on my netbook as much as possible, but its a pretty slow thing...*
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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-03, 11:13

Well, if that's the case, I can just finish up the story right now.

Besides, I think we've been making anyone that's reading this wait long enough anyway. :P

Unless there are any objections to this, I'll post the final two sentences later this week.

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-04, 5:23

Are you sure? My PM states there are two sentences left; a Struth sentence and the last one is mine. I am more than willing to translate my sentence, if you want. I just feared that I wouldn't be able to do Struth's and my own at once.

And I agree. I actually know someone who wants to see the outcome of the story on another forum. xD
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Thanks to hashi, ronin319, razlem, johntm, Lenguas, jake12,Milya0 and YngNghymru for literally teaching me from nothing, to something big! Thank you guys so much!

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-04, 12:13

Kaylee wrote:Are you sure? My PM states there are two sentences left; a Struth sentence and the last one is mine. I am more than willing to translate my sentence, if you want. I just feared that I wouldn't be able to do Struth's and my own at once.

I don't mind at all. However, my notes say that you have the next sentence and the last sentence was originally slit as: first half - Struth, Second half - you. :hmm:
At any rate, it's up to you. If you think you'd be able to translate within a week, I'd be more then happy to let you. I would like to give you the practice, but at the same time, I'd like to see this completed. It's not like we have a time limit, but the original idea was to do it in a month.

In short, we can leave it the way it was originally, I just wasn't sure with your post about not being around for a bit.

And I agree. I actually know someone who wants to see the outcome of the story on another forum. xD
Cool. :D

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-05, 6:49

Oh yea, I completely forgot that was what happened. lol Alright then, I'll stick to the original plan. :mrgreen:
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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-05, 10:11

Ok, sounds like a plan! :)

EDIT: Uh, duh! Where is my head? You just did your sentence! Now it's the big loooong sentence I do believe. Brahma, I need my eyes (and brain) checked! :P

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-06, 4:49

Yup, I just did one. :) But my PM states this, which is what I was at first referencing:

S 13a) Čhaƞkhé wawáƞyaƞg nážiƞ pi k’uƞ hená nakéš waná íƞš ehákela thakíčhika pi yúƞkhaƞ ečháƞl Khaƞǧí Wičháša waƞ líglila takueyáya
K 13b) aglágla ú yúƞkhaƞ thahóksila kiƞ iyúha kaȟéyawaphaya akhínažiƞ yúƞkhaƞ iyéska waƞ čhokáta hiyú na leyá kéye.


According to my PM, those are the last two sentences for the story left. So is the plan still the same for this? If so, I do not mind translating my piece. :)
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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-06, 15:33

I see what's going on here. That's the big long sentence, are you keep calling it two sentences. :nono:

At any rate, it's good you posted that, so I know how far to translate it. :P I had forgotten where the split was.

Hmmm, on second thought, it's a bit hard to translate your half. Even with my half. I'll just steal the whole thing. :mrgreen:

Sentence:
Čhaƞkhé wawáƞyaƞg nážiƞpi k’un hená nakéš waná íƞš ehákela tȟakíčhikpapi yúƞkhaƞ ečháƞl Khaƞǧí Wičháša waƞ líglila tákueyáya aglágla ú yúƞkȟaƞ tȟahóksila kiƞ iyúha kaȟéyawapȟaya akhínažiƞ yúƞkȟaƞ iyéska waƞ cȟokáta hiyú na leyá kéye.

Translation:
And so, looking at the people standing, they attacked each other at last. And just the a Crow Indian approached and cried over and over that is was his son [that had died]; an interpreter came from among their midst and told of their withdrawal.

Gloss:













Čhaƞkhéwawáƞyaƞgnážiƞpik’unhená
and solooking at peoplethey standbecausethey
nakéšwanáíƞšehákelatȟakíčhikpapi
now at lastnowhethey at lastthey attack each other
yúƞkȟaƞečháƞlKhaƞǧí Wičhášawaƞlíglila
and thenjust thenCrow Indianavery (emphatic)
tákueyáyaagláglaúyúƞkȟaƞtȟahóksila
said over and overfrom one to the nexthe approachedand thenhis son
kiƞiyúhakaȟéyawapȟayaakhínažiƞyúƞkhaƞ
theeveryoneto the sidethey come to a stop/withdrawand then
iyéskawaƞčhokátahiyúna
interpreterain the center/midstto start comingand
leyá[kéya/td][td]
to say thisit is said

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-07, 2:42

Yup, I thought they were separate sentences. :blush:

That is an amazing translation, księżycowy! :o Made perfect sense too. :yep:

Now what? The story is complete, do we put it together now and see how it goes?
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Learning:lkt (lkt) Next: ru (ru) af (af) bo (bo) ar (ar) cy (cy)/gd (gd)

Thanks to hashi, ronin319, razlem, johntm, Lenguas, jake12,Milya0 and YngNghymru for literally teaching me from nothing, to something big! Thank you guys so much!

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-07, 13:45

Kaylee wrote:Yup, I thought they were separate sentences. :blush:

No worries.

Now what? The story is complete, do we put it together now and see how it goes?

Yup! Do you want to do the honors or shall I?

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby Kaylee » 2012-01-07, 19:14

Well, I had put the whole thing together last night for someone else, so maybe...yes, I would like to. :)

Translated:
It is said when some Oglala would go out making war and would make camp [lit. "go to bed"], someone would ascend a hill to scout. And just then a storm came, therefore, he departed for a deep hole/cave there. It was very dark so he held on and went feeling his way in. Therefore, they sat holding themselves in that manner...and already it was daytime and nice outside. Therefore, they went out and then, a Crow Man, he also arrived to scout from a war party. But it is said that, fearing the thunder, he hid in/took refuge in a cave.

Thus, he reported in sign language. It was the morning, in a nearby prairie, and the Lakota were ready to fight and talking in signs. The Lakhota would ride on spotted horses wearing a white war-bonnet and a headdress with feathers, hence they would ride and talk in sign language. So it is said. Then, it is said, they gave something to each other on both sides. In that way they did not doubt each other. "And so it was already morning, and then, they indicated a place, as you know, it is there that they were on both sides and stood threateningly. Therefore, it is said, they attacked each other right away.

And long ago these two were commanded to fight each other, they fought each other while mounted while the others stood watching. Now for the last time they killed each other and so they rescued one/ of the others. And so, looking at the people standing, they attacked each other at last. And just the a Crow Indian approached and cried over and over that is was his son [that had died]; an interpreter came from among their midst and told of their withdrawal.
Native American inspired Conlang!
Kaylee - NAILC - Lakȟotiyapi
Learning:lkt (lkt) Next: ru (ru) af (af) bo (bo) ar (ar) cy (cy)/gd (gd)

Thanks to hashi, ronin319, razlem, johntm, Lenguas, jake12,Milya0 and YngNghymru for literally teaching me from nothing, to something big! Thank you guys so much!

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Re: Powwow Story

Postby księżycowy » 2012-01-07, 19:57

Cool! 8-)

Well, I think that was quite fun.


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