General Discussion

[johnH]

I hope we haven't gone necro! ‹O.O› What language does one speak in unilang anyway?, I haven't learned it yet.
Unilangien?··· IT must have lot’s of grammar .
‹(·_·)›' it sucks that tlingit doesn't use… the good indian writting system .
that makes me unhappy. I like all the pretty symbols .

[księżycowy]

I hope we haven't gone necro! ‹O.O› What language does one speak in unilang anyway?, I haven't learned it yet.

English seems to be the main culprit. Though we do tend to use a far bit of internet slang that might not be obvious to everyone.

‹(·_·)›' it sucks that tlingit doesn't use… the good indian writting system .
that makes me unhappy. I like all the pretty symbols .

The good Indian writing system? What do you mean?
Most N.A langs tend to use variants of the English alphabet (as I'm sure we can all agree). Though some do have quite a lot of diacritics, such as Tlingit.
The Tlingit alphabet is hard enough, let alone the grammar!
Though I do find most N.A alphabets to be good. Though some (Choctaw and Mohawk for example) don't always go for a totally accurate system based on pronunciation.

Take for example the following two examples:
ronwatí:iats (From Mohawk, meaning ’they call them’)
pronounced -> ɽõwadiːjats


This example if from Choctaw (which I find harder to figure out)
ontuchena (eight)
pronounced -> õtʌtʃɛnə
I find this one harder because the vowels can be shortened when their represented in spelling as long vowels, if we were to pronounce the example as spelled, we get: õtʌtʃɛna (or even oːntotʃɛːnaː)
Where the final vowel would be long. And this isn't the worst example . . .
achukma -> aːtʃʌkmaː -> ətʃʌkmə (good) (the last being the correct pronunciation)

Tlingit is one that actually represents the pronunciation quite faithfully. Though Mohawk isn't bad once one gets past a few odd spelling conventions.

[johnH]

that doesn't seam screwed up . I can make it much much harder much much much much harder.

[księżycowy]

that doesn't seam screwed up . I can make it much much harder much much much much harder.

Well it makes it hard when your trying to pronounce the words right!
Choctaw (my favorite language to hate and learn at the same time) has three vowels, with three different qualities. (IPA in []'s)
'i' has three different qualities: long, short, and nasal.
Short 'i' [i/ɪ] can be spelled: 'i', or 'e'
long 'i' [ɛ/e] tends to be spelled 'e'
Nasal 'i' [ĩ] can be spelled: 'i̱', or ’in/im' depending on the following consonant

'a' is especially fun:
long 'a' [a] is usually written 'a'
short 'a' [ə] can be written: 'v' (like Cherokee transcription!) or 'a'
Nasal 'a' [ã]: 'a̱' or again, 'an/am'

’o’ is even better:
long [o]: usually ’o’
short [u/ʊ]: usually ’u’, but sometimes ’o’
nasal [õ]: ’o̱’ or ’on/om’

And thus we can get quite a few different ways of spelling the same vowels. And because the vowels can be shortened, even though their written long, makes the orthography quite horrendous. And this applies to anywhere in a word, not obvious places, like at the end of words like in some languages.

This is of course talking about the Oklahoma orthography. The one used in Mississippi is much more in line with the pronunciation.

N.A orthographies can be quite different then your standard European orthographies, where a letter equals one sound in most if not all circumstances. In N.A. orthographies, you usually have a some letters pulling double duty. Like Mohawk ’t’ or ’k’, which represent both the voiced and unvoiced versions of the respective sounds. (In other words Mohawk ’t’ for example equals English ’t’ and ’d’).

Thus the pronunciation is not always obvious through the spelling. Though no, that doesn't make it an especially hard system, depending on the individual language.

[Formiko]

Tlingit is one that actually represents the pronunciation quite faithfully.

Haha, that still doesn't make it easy to pronounce. I have to say however, that Tlingit IS easier to pronounce than Lushutseed or any other Salishan language.

[księżycowy]

Haha, that still doesn't make it easy to pronounce. I have to say however, that Tlingit IS easier to pronounce than Lushutseed or any other Salishan language.

Didn't say Tlingit was easy to pronounce!
In fact quite a few N.A. langs can be very hard to pronounce.
And, yes, Lushootseed is something else. As are most Salishan languages. Quite on par with Georgian if you ask me.

[Formiko]

Haha, that still doesn't make it easy to pronounce. I have to say however, that Tlingit IS easier to pronounce than Lushutseed or any other Salishan language.

Didn't say Tlingit was easy to pronounce!
In fact quite a few N.A. langs can be very hard to pronounce.
And, yes, Lushootseed is something else. As are most Salishan languages. Quite on par with Georgian if you ask me.

Lushotseed can make a Georgian cry

[księżycowy]

I can believe that!

[księżycowy]

I was doing some research on Salishan languages, and I found a website that has short films on some Canadian Aboriginal groups. A few are even in N. langs!
http://films.nfb.ca/ourworld/

I was listening to one in Nuxalk (a Salishan language), and all I can say is:

You were completely right about Salishan making a Georgian cry Formiko (at least on a phonetic level anyway )

Think I'll stick with the ones I feel are easier to pronounce (for now )

[księżycowy]

After a few listens some Choctaw audio online, it appears I made a few mistakes in the length/quality of the vowels in my posts above . . .

So I fixed them.

[księżycowy]

Hey Formiko, do you know of any good resources to learn Cheyenne with (aside for the ones already posted that is)?
I'm working on some Arapaho for the 2011 WAC, so I figure might as well look into Cheyenne afterwords.

[Formiko]

Hey Formiko, do you know of any good resources to learn Cheyenne with (aside for the ones already posted that is)?
I'm working on some Arapaho for the 2011 WAC, so I figure might as well look into Cheyenne afterwords.

My friend Pete speaks Cheyenne, I'll get some links from him, but in the meantime:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... type:texts

[księżycowy]

My friend Pete speaks Cheyenne, I'll get some links from him, but in the meantime:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... type:texts

That's awesome! I'll be looking forward to anything you find!
Know anything for Arapaho too? (Not to overload you)
I'm using the 'lessons' at the Arapaho Project website at the U of Colorado and the lessons in the 'Let's Learn Arapaho' grammar. The problem is that the lessons are very small, I'd like to get a more comprehensive textbook if possible (which I know is a long shot, but I can hope can't I ).

[Formiko]

My friend Pete speaks Cheyenne, I'll get some links from him, but in the meantime:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query ... type:texts

That's awesome! I'll be looking forward to anything you find!
Know anything for Arapaho too? (Not to overload you)
I'm using the 'lessons' at the Arapaho Project website at the U of Colorado and the lessons in the 'Let's Learn Arapaho' grammar. The problem is that the lessons are very small, I'd like to get a more comprehensive textbook if possible (which I know is a long shot, but I can hope can't I ).

I have an Arapaho textbook,but it's not digital

[księżycowy]

I have an Arapaho textbook,but it's not digital

What's it called? Any clues of where I could get a copy?

[Formiko]

I have an Arapaho textbook,but it's not digital

What's it called? Any clues of where I could get a copy?

It's a dissertation in a binder. Probably any university library. I'll see if I can fetch the title.

[księżycowy]

Getting back to Arikara for a moment, I've found what looks like some great resources for the language. Also found similar resources for Pawnee. I've added them to the 'Learning Resources.'

I haven't been able to check out any libraries nearby to see if they can get the one public domain Arikara textbook, but I'll keep trying.

[księżycowy]

Out of curiousity, do you know any Arapaho Formiko?
I know you've said that you've taking a bloody ton of NDN language classes, so I figured I'd ask!

[Formiko]

Out of curiousity, do you know any Arapaho Formiko?
I know you've said that you've taking a bloody ton of NDN language classes, so I figured I'd ask!

Not really. I've read a little, and I'm familiar with Algonquian language structure, but that's about it.

[księżycowy]

Not really. I've read a little, and I'm familiar with Algonquian language structure, but that's about it.

Just when I thought I had a study-buddy . . .