Iroquoian Languages

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Bingles
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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-08-28, 17:45

księżycowy wrote:I would absolutely love to learn Cayuga. My only problem is the lack of audio for the teaching grammar. That's why I've often thought of learning Oneida first.

EDIT: Actually, I just so happened to check for the hell of it, and the guys over at the COOL project have uploaded some audio for the dialogues in Wadewayę́stanih. :D

Maybe I could start learning some Cayuga soon!


Sgę:nǫ́’ księżycowy!

I've just downloaded the audio files for Wadewayę́stanih, they are awesome! I think I already improved some of my pronounciations and I recommend you try them out too... I'm really excited about the new audio files. I have a question though, do you think learning Mohawk at the same time I learn Cayuga would be helpful as well or not?

Nyá:węh!
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby księżycowy » 2014-08-28, 18:58

Oh, I've already downloaded and have checked out the audio files. :wink:

And I'm not sure who you're asking to learn Mohawk. I'm not still learning Mohawk myself. I was a bit disheartened by the fact that no good dictionary exists (that I'm aware of anyway). I wouldn't mind learning Mohawk at all myself, but I'm going to stick with Cayuga and Oneida for now.

As far as learning any of the Iroquoian languages: learning one of the Northern Iroquoian languages would most certainly help with any of the others. I would imagine one of us learning Mohawk and the other learning Cayuga would indeed help, to some degree. But it would be like one person learning French and the other learning Spanish. It would not be ideal. Unless you mean something else.

Having said all that though, unfortunately, I'm not going to be starting any of these immediately. I have other languages I need to get in good order before hand. But I'm hoping in a few months. Maybe around November. (Right around powwow time :wink: )

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-08-28, 19:17

I was talking to my great aunt once, she speaks Cayuga and Seneca both fluently. She said it might be helpful to learn other Iroquois languages if they have more resources she said it may be helpful because the languages are so close, but maybe Mohawk and Cayuga are too distant to be considering that. But when do you start learning more Cayuga, tell me because by November I hope to be done half of my Grammar Book and somewhat into conversational Cayuga. More advanced hopefully.
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby księżycowy » 2014-08-28, 19:27

Ok, I get what you mean now. I misunderstood the question.

Like I said before, learning any of the Northern Iroquoian languages (Cayuga, Mohawk, Seneca, Oneida, Onondaga) would greatly help in the study of another Northern Iroquoian language. While I'm not sure how close the languages are to one another, I am sure that they would still help each other. They all share the same basic grammar and vocabulary. The only Iroquoian language I would say is a bit of a wild card is Cherokee (which is Southern Iroquoian anyway).

Learning languages in the same language family is a lot easier then learning other, different languages.

So, in short, if you wanted to try learning another Iroquoian language to help you in your Cayuga studies, it wouldn't hurt at all. People do use their knowledge of Spanish to help them learn French for example.

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-08-28, 21:44

Okay I thought it would be helpful as well, I guess now it`s just a waiting game for Mohawk books to get mailed to my house :silly: I wish they had the Rosetta Stone Mohawk still in stock! :nope:
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby księżycowy » 2014-08-29, 11:31

Out of curiosity, what books did you order?

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-09-10, 21:46

I had problems with shipping, I was going to order the Mohawk Grammar Book with the DVDs but I guess it wasn't working for whatever reason... But I've finally joined a Cayuga language class with Gai Hon Nya Ni, (They Are Learning). I'm still looking for other people learning Cayuga though, but in the class I've improved my pronounciation already.
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby księżycowy » 2014-09-11, 0:09

That's pretty cool. Good luck and have fun with your course. Though that sucks you couldn't get the Mohawk book.

In other news, I've been seriously tossing around the idea of studying a fourth language. If I do, there is a high probability it would be Cayuga (or Quechua). I'm not sure if I will add a fourth language or not, but I'll figure it out over the next few days.

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-10-05, 17:26

I've learned a Short Version of the Thanksgiving Address in my Cayuga class recently, I'd like to share the first 'verse' of the Thanksgiving Address with everybody in the NAIL forum to want to read it.


Deyoihwadogęhdǫh Ganǫhǫnyǫhk wrote:Nę:dah nigękyo̱hgo’dę: ęswathaǫhsiyohs
this / assembled crowd / you all will listen
ne’ hędwaihwakyę:to shǫgway’adis’ǫh
that / we will pull from / out creator
ganǫhǫnyǫhk ne’ aǫwesaht sgę:nǫ’
thanksgiving / that it is / gladdening / of well being
dwęnǫhdǫnyǫh ne’di’ne’ ędwehek ihya
we are in mind of / so it is / we will in thought / us first
sga:t ędwayę:’ ǫgwa’nigǫha’ sga:t
in one / we will put / all our minds / in one
dędwadatnǫhǫnyǫ:’ netogyę: niyodǫ̱hǫ:k ǫgwa’nigǫha’
we will greet each other / so / be it / our minds


The Thanksgiving Address is something used in ceremonies in the Iroquoian community, before meetings and other important things. The Haudenosaunee, or Hodinǫ̱hsǫ́:nih traditions are... I don't know how to put it. Haudenosaunee people are very thankful for our Mother, Mother Earth and everything she holds. The Haudenosaunee are thankful for the duty preformers the Creator has created such as the moon and sun. Some Haudenosaunee believe in the 'Handsome Lake Code', particularly the Seneca, Six Nations community. Most Mohawks think the 'Handsome Lake Code' is created from the white men to pacify the native people. Anyways, the Haudenosaunee are also thankful for Sganyadaiyo' who told the people of the creators' word.

'Confusion Between the Great Law and the Handsome Lake Code'
http://www.mohawknationnews.com/index_h ... de_OPT.pdf

Anyways, I just wanted to show everybody the structure of the Cayuga sentences. The words and speak about the culture and traditions of my people.

Nya:węh
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Lauren » 2014-11-19, 19:46

Has anyone noticed that the falling tone in Mohawk often sounds breathy or like there's an /h/ after the vowel? I have, and in the description of the tone on Wikipedia it says that the falling tone historically comes from a vowel followed by /h/ or /ʔ/ so that would maybe make sense to hear it that way... Or maybe I'm just hearing things that aren't there. xP
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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-12-11, 17:15

Lauren wrote:Has anyone noticed that the falling tone in Mohawk often sounds breathy or like there's an /h/ after the vowel? I have, and in the description of the tone on Wikipedia it says that the falling tone historically comes from a vowel followed by /h/ or /ʔ/ so that would maybe make sense to hear it that way... Or maybe I'm just hearing things that aren't there. xP


It's possibly a speakers' preference. Did you know there's a Mohawk Language Talk Show available on Soundcloud? I'll be learning Mohawk starting in February!
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-23, 20:18

Bingles wrote:I'll be learning Mohawk starting in February!

You'll still be learning Cayuga, too, right? :)

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Lauren » 2014-12-23, 21:16

I still like Mohawk quite a bit. I need more materials of I were to learn it, though, like a dictionary. :(
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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-12-25, 1:01

vijayjohn wrote:
Bingles wrote:I'll be learning Mohawk starting in February!

You'll still be learning Cayuga, too, right? :)


Yes of course, I just have a course with my school board that I will get a credit from. It's interesting and very very close to Cayuga! Kind of like the difference between... like Danish and German or something.
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-25, 4:17

The Wikipedia article on "Iroquois" calls Mohawk "the official language of the full Council...The League is governed by a Grand Council..." Is that true? Was Mohawk historically the official language of the Iroquois League/Confederacy? Is it still today? Is that the language that representatives of the various nations used to communicate with each other?

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-12-25, 18:32

vijayjohn wrote:The Wikipedia article on "Iroquois" calls Mohawk "the official language of the full Council...The League is governed by a Grand Council..." Is that true? Was Mohawk historically the official language of the Iroquois League/Confederacy? Is it still today? Is that the language that representatives of the various nations used to communicate with each other?



Mmm, I don't believe so. The Haudenosaunee Confederacy Council of Chiefs doesn't really publish much information of how they conduct business. But all Chiefs must speak their language and they have so many chiefs from all Tribes excluding Tuscaurora. I'd imagine the HCCC would conduct themselves in Onondaga because the original council fire was in Onondaga. But there is no real 'official language' as far as I'm concerned, all languages are mutually intelligable to a certain extent and some more than others. I know the Tadodaho or the leader of the Confederacy is Onondaga and speaks Onondaga. I'll have to look into it!
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-25, 19:24

I've been curious for a while how (historically) the representatives of the various nations communicated with each other or addressed all the other representatives. (Like, did they have a lingua franca, understand each others' languages, make efforts to learn each others' languages, use interpreters, some combination of the above, or what? :lol:). In fact, now I'm wondering what they do even now; do they just use English (or French) as a lingua franca?

I didn't realize the languages were mutually intelligible to varying degrees (although that makes sense, especially since they're all from the same branch of the same language family and, if I understand correctly, were in close contact anyway).

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-12-25, 20:41

vijayjohn wrote:I've been curious for a while how (historically) the representatives of the various nations communicated with each other or addressed all the other representatives. (Like, did they have a lingua franca, understand each others' languages, make efforts to learn each others' languages, use interpreters, some combination of the above, or what? :lol:). In fact, now I'm wondering what they do even now; do they just use English (or French) as a lingua franca?

I didn't realize the languages were mutually intelligible to varying degrees (although that makes sense, especially since they're all from the same branch of the same language family and, if I understand correctly, were in close contact anyway).



Yeah, well did Yugoslavia communicate in all Serbian or Croatian? I don't know really, and yeah they're all part of the Iroquois Confederacy so they all must be close enough to that, I can understand Mohawk words and Oneida. I can understand Seneca very well and Onondaga.
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-25, 20:44

Bingles wrote:Yeah, well did Yugoslavia communicate in all Serbian or Croatian?

At the government level? Yes.

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Re: Iroquoian Languages

Postby Bingles » 2014-12-25, 20:52

vijayjohn wrote:
Bingles wrote:Yeah, well did Yugoslavia communicate in all Serbian or Croatian?

At the government level? Yes.

Ok, I'll have to ask some questions about what language the Confederacy operates in.
[flag=]cay[/flag]
Gayogo̱hnǫ’ gadewayę’s
I am studying the Cayuga language
Bennett Joe gya:sǫh. Kanadagwa:dih hǫ:weh knagre’ ne’ wa’ne:.
My name is Bennett Joe. I live on the Canadian side right now


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