dEhiN's Language Log

[dEhiN]

You're right to say that us Murakins don't generally know what Boxing Day is. A quick search leads me to believe it has something to do with this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

You read my TAC! I'm so happy!

As for Boxing Day, the same site you used could've told you the truth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day. Basically it's the day after Christmas and in Canada is a national holiday. Typically, it represented a time for Canadian retailers to offer big sales (a la Black Friday with American Thanksgiving). It started with just one day sales - a sale on Boxing Day itself, which meant that there would sometimes be lines outside retail stores for hours in the early morning. This was especially true before online shopping existed. I guess even though the day has always been a stat holiday, because of the nature of what the day meant (or became?), retail employees could always count on time and a half for hours worked?! Anyway, eventually, particularly once online shopping became a thing, Boxing Day sales became "Boxing Week sales", typically going for the week between Christmas and New Years. Then, our lovely retailers started realizing how many Canadians would go south of the border for US Black Friday and started following suit with their own Black Friday / Cyber Monday. I suppose I shouldn't complain since that just means more opportunity to get stuff for cheap, but it feels like another example of Canadians giving up their identity to our American neighbours.

[księżycowy]

1) I still lurk here a bit.

2) I knew what Boxing Day really was.

[aaakknu]

Duolingo has leaderboards to foster competition and encourage regular practice. When I started on December 26 (which I keep wanting to call Boxing Day, but then remember I don't think Americans know what that is!), I was in the Bronze League. There are 5 - Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum (I assume), and Diamond.

After gold, there's sapphire.

You're right to say that us Murakins don't generally know what Boxing Day is. A quick search leads me to believe it has something to do with this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

You read my TAC! I'm so happy!

I also read your TAC. I just rarely have something to say. Hope that's gonna make you even happier

[dEhiN]

After gold, there's sapphire.

Ahh, thanks! And then diamond is the last leaderboard?

I also read your TAC. I just rarely have something to say. Hope that's gonna make you even happier

It does make me even happier! I often feel like I'm too wordy in my updates and then think that no one's going to want to read them as a result.

By the way, I always wanted to ask you, why did you change your username? It used to be Irusia, right? I'm not sure why, but I always assumed that was your IRL name. (If it's not, don't feel obligated to share your real name, ok?) Also, what does aaakknu mean? From the triple a and double k, I'm going to venture a guess that it's Greenlandic?

[dEhiN]

Quick update: I changed the name of this thread to "dEhiN's Language Log" from what it used to be. Firstly, it's 2021, so the old name didn't work. Plus, I'm obviously continuing on with this thread for my language learning journey updates, rather than start a new thread.

[Linguaphile]

After gold, there's sapphire.

Ahh, thanks! And then diamond is the last leaderboard?

I think it is, but I'm sure there were more levels than that. I remember a pearl and an obsidian. I think it's like ten levels? I got to the highest level once or twice but it's super-competitive there. The person at the very top had a truly impossible number of points almost immediately at the beginning of the week and went up from there; they must have either been a bot (is that possible?) or someone doing Duolingo like 24/7 or maybe a group of people taking turns with the same account to keep it going. Although I don't know if it's always like that; maybe I just got in a weird cohort. After that I didn't really keep trying so I don't know if would have kept happening or not.

And I read your thread too, although I probably miss a lot of stuff since (until now) I hadn't posted in it and don't get notifications; I just read it when I notice it in the New Threads list, but I don't always check there.
I guess I'll follow it better now since I"ll get notifications after posting this.

[księżycowy]

Also, what does aaakknu mean? From the triple a and double k, I'm going to venture a guess that it's Greenlandic?

Greenlandic does not have "triple a"s. I've always assumed it was Estonian, which is one of the few languages I know that does have overlong vowels. Plus, she knows it quite well.

[aaakknu]

After gold, there's sapphire.

Ahh, thanks! And then diamond is the last leaderboard?

I don't know, I just reached sapphire. If I go further, I'll tell you.

By the way, I always wanted to ask you, why did you change your username? It used to be Irusia, right? I'm not sure why, but I always assumed that was your IRL name. (If it's not, don't feel obligated to share your real name, ok?) Also, what does aaakknu mean? From the triple a and double k, I'm going to venture a guess that it's Greenlandic?

Yes, Irusia is my real name (it's a diminutive of it).
I guess I like changing usernames according to my mood, but if it's too confusing, I'll stop doing that.
Aaakknu (in this order) means nothing. I took a word, and then put the letters of that word in an alphabetical order.

[księżycowy]

Aaakknu (in this order) means nothing. I took a word, and then put the letters of that word in an alphabetical order.

I thought it looked odd, even for Estonian.

[dEhiN]

I think it is, but I'm sure there were more levels than that. I remember a pearl and an obsidian. I think it's like ten levels? I got to the highest level once or twice but it's super-competitive there. The person at the very top had a truly impossible number of points almost immediately at the beginning of the week and went up from there; they must have either been a bot (is that possible?) or someone doing Duolingo like 24/7 or maybe a group of people taking turns with the same account to keep it going. Although I don't know if it's always like that; maybe I just got in a weird cohort. After that I didn't really keep trying so I don't know if would have kept happening or not.

Huh, thanks for letting me know! When Duo first came out with the leaderboards, I never participated in them because I generally stay away from competitions. If I ever make it to the top level, it'll be interesting to see what happens. I generally seem to forget when exactly the weekly competition ends and the next one begins. So far, for the past 3 weeks, I've kind of started getting points about half a day after start, but thankfully I'm always able to catch up and surpass everyone else in the end. (I guess not working right now and being awake all night has its perks!)

As for the super competitive thing, yeah it's head-scratching how some people get so many points or experience so quickly! This isn't just a Duo thing either: my girlfriend plays a lot of those mobile word search games (like Wordscapes, Word Mocha, etc.) and has been doing so for over a year at least. As such, she frequently participates in their competitions, which basically reward you for the more words you find during competition time, which also ends up meaning you progress through the levels quicker. At any rate, she's usually the winner of them because she spends like all her time on the game during a competition. And of course, I'm sure there are others who do as well. But whereas she'll find words at relative normal speed, sometimes she'll take a quick five minute break and the person under her has suddenly gotten like 20 or 30 words! If I wasn't fairly certain that bots wouldn't work for these games, I'd swear the person is a bot. The other possibility I haven't ruled out is that there's no real competition and these games make up players and scores. (Because during a competition, there's more likely chance someone will spend fiat currency to buy hints and stuff to "win", and even though winning involves you getting in-game currency, you could obviously spend way more fiat currency than worth it.) It's possible that when she takes a break, the game decides she's stopped playing because she's in first place and so the "next" player suddenly gains on her in an unrealistic way!

And I read your thread too, although I probably miss a lot of stuff since (until now) I hadn't posted in it and don't get notifications; I just read it when I notice it in the New Threads list, but I don't always check there.
I guess I'll follow it better now since I"ll get notifications after posting this.

Aww thanks, and yay! Unfortunately, I've stopped Spanish for now so as not to get confused with Portuguese. So, I don't know if we have any other learning languages in common. But, I was listening to some Spanish music the other day (stuff I've listened to a lot in the past) and I was able to remember and sing a good amount of the words, as well as understand or at least recall what they meant! By the way, I like your username! I always thought it was a cute and clever portmanteau.

[dEhiN]

Yes, Irusia is my real name (it's a diminutive of it).
I guess I like changing usernames according to my mood, but if it's too confusing, I'll stop doing that.
Aaakknu (in this order) means nothing. I took a word, and then put the letters of that word in an alphabetical order.

Nice to meet you Irusia, I'm David! You don't have to stop changing your username, you do you! I changed my real name some years back. Well, I started going by David - my first name - in my late 20s. Prior to that, growing up and into my 20s, I went by my middle name. I decided to change to my first name because, at the time, I was doing some background acting and went as just my first and last name for they are much easier to say, and after seeing how much easier it was, I started to like it more. So I basically sent out a mass email to everyone I knew asking them to call me David. It was interesting to see the reactions of my family, who obviously called me by my middle name growing up. My immediate family was ok - they made the effort - but not all of my extended family was cool with it. At the time I had a cousin who was named David as well, and that's what he had been called growing up, so he had issues with it. He told me once that there was only one David in the family. Unfortunately he passed away in 2013, and even though I had been going as David for a couple or several years by then, some members of my family had a tough time with me being David and "reminding them" of the one who passed away. Anyway, in the end, I decided to go as my middle name with my family. But, that's why my philosophy is that if someone wants to change their name, it's their name, and it should be up to everyone else to adjust accordingly. I know in this case we're talking about your username, but I still think the same thing!

[Linguaphile]

Also, what does aaakknu mean? From the triple a and double k, I'm going to venture a guess that it's Greenlandic?

Greenlandic does not have "triple a"s. I've always assumed it was Estonian, which is one of the few languages I know that does have overlong vowels. Plus, she knows it quite well.

Aaaknu's previous username was in Estonian (I'm not sure if I should say it though, since she didn't mention that one; maybe it's a secret.)

Your random language facts for the day:

Estonian does have overlong vowels, but they aren't written with triple letters. (One of the oddities of the orthography is that both long and overlong vowels are written the same, with double and not triple letters, but pronounced differently.)

There's only handful a Estonian words where you can find triple a's and they are always compound words where the first component has a long or overlong vowel and the second component has a short one or vice versa (so, the triple a's won't occur at the beginning of the word, as they do in aaakknu):

maaarhitektuur (maa-arhitektuur) = folk architecture
sajaaastane (saja-aastane) = a centenarian
vanaaastaöö (vana-aastaöö) = New Year's Eve
isamaaarmastus (isamaa-armastus) = patriotism
pulmaaastapäev (pulma-aastapäev) = wedding anniversary

It's also possible to have four vowels in a row in a compound word where one component ends with a long or overlong vowel and the next component starts with one:

maaaadel (maa-aadel) = landed nobility
tööööbik (töö-ööbik) = workaholic
jäääärne (jää-äärne) = of the edge of the ice
kuuuurija (kuu-uurija) = moon researcher

Anyway most Estonians prefer to write them the hyphenated way, but both spellings that I've used above are considered correct (in other words, with or without the hyphen). The primary use of the non-hyphenated variety seems to be "lists of unusual-looking words". Perhaps this is why Estonians tend to prefer the hyphenated versions. But they are indeed correct.

I thought it looked odd, even for Estonian.

LOL

[dEhiN]

So how are these overlong vowels pronounced? Are they distinguished phonemically or just phonetically? Also, do you know how they are written in IPA? I know ː is used for length, but that would only indicate long. What about overlong?

[vijayjohn]

Double colon

[dEhiN]

Double colon

Tack! Would a distinction be made for the triple vs quadruple vowels Linguaphile exemplified?

[vijayjohn]

Maybe. It can be more than two colons.

[Linguaphile]

Double colon

Tack! Would a distinction be made for the triple vs quadruple vowels Linguaphile exemplified?

Actually the examples I gave are long+long vowels, no overlong, and cross syllable boundaries. So no double colons in this case much less triple. (Triple isn't used. Double colon is used for overlong, but doesn't appear in my examples.)
tööööbik /tø:ˌø:pik:/
jäääärne /'jæˌæ:rne/

[vijayjohn]

I think I've seen töö in the Estonian SSR anthem.

[Linguaphile]

So how are these overlong vowels pronounced? Are they distinguished phonemically or just phonetically? Also, do you know how they are written in IPA? I know ː is used for length, but that would only indicate long. What about overlong?

Just realized I didn't actually answer the questions since none of my examples had overlong vowels or consonants. So here's some examples that show the difference:

lina ['linɑ] linen; flax (nominative)
linna ['lin:ɑ] of the city (genitive of "linn")
linna ['lin::ɑ] into the city (inessive of "linn)

sada ['sɑdɑ] = hundred (nominative)
saada ['sɑ:dɑ] = send! (imperative of "saatma")
saada ['sɑ::dɑ] = to get (second infinitive form of "saama")

koli ['koli] = trash, junk
kolli ['kol:i] = of the ghost/spectre (genitive of "koll")
kolli ['kol::i] = into the ghost/spectre (inessive of "koll")
kooli ['ko:li] = of the school (genitive of "kooi")
kooli ['ko::li] = into the school (inessive of "kool")

And if you want to hear the difference between short, long and overlong, under Sõnavormid (near the top right) click on the audio symbol next to each of the two different forms of linna at this link and compare them with lina here. (Note that all three links for the audio of "lina" are the same, as the nominative, genitive and partitive forms of that word are all pronounced identically. For "linna", on the other hand, the nominative is "linn" and the genitive and partitive forms that are written "linna" have different pronunciations.)

There are also grammatical patterns to this, i.e. there are many pairs in which the genitive form of a word is long and its inessive form is overlong, etc.

[dEhiN]

Huh, interesting! Thanks for the examples? In practice, you know how pronounced the distinctions are? I imagine dialectal variation would play a factor here, but do other mechanisms end up being substituted to differentiate, or do Estonians in general actually hold the long vowels for longer than the regular ones and the overlong, longer still?