dEhiN's Language Log

This forum is for the Total Annihilation Challenge. See the sticky thread for more information.

Moderators:''', Forum Administrators

kevin
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:2134
Joined:2012-03-29, 11:07
Gender:male
Country:DEGermany (Deutschland)
Contact:
Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby kevin » 2021-02-13, 9:44

dEhiN wrote:At any rate, I just found it interesting that my natural assumption for the pronunciation of each platform was to stress the first syllable, and it seems like with both Coursera and Udemy, that's not how it's supposed to be 'officially' pronounced. Although, now that I try saying them with the stress on the second syllables, I have to say that it rolls off the tongue better my way.

I agree that stressing the first syllable in "Udemy" feels more natural, and it's obviously supposed to be pronounced as English.

With "Coursera", the English isn't as obvious, so the first pronunciation I thought of is /kʊʁˈseːʁa/, which I would probably transfer into English as something like /kɔɹˈsiːɹə/.

User avatar
Dormouse559
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:6939
Joined:2010-05-30, 0:06
Real Name:Matthew
Gender:male
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby Dormouse559 » 2021-02-13, 18:39

dEhiN wrote:(fr) / (fr) - C'est un mise à jour en français de sur le français !

Je viens d'aller à mon café favoris, et pendant la en route, j'ai écouté à un podcast français qui s'appelle « InnerFrench ». Le gars qui fait anime/réalise le podcast, il choisit un sujet différent chaque fois et fait un podcast normale sur le sujet, mais il parle un peu lentement pour les gens qui apprennent le français. J'ai trouvé ce podcast il y a quelques années, mais je ne l'ai jamais utilisé / je ne m'en ai jamais servi jusqu'à maintenant. Je voulais quelque chose de différent de la musique habituelle sur Amazon Music, alors j'ai essayé ça. L'épisode que j'ai choisi, elle est appelée « Le français est-il une langue sexiste ? ».

J'en ai entendu juste les 15 premières minutes, mais j'en ai compris en général peut-être 75%. Je comprenais habituellement le sens général, mais définitivement, il y a des mots et aussi des phrases qui sont durs et dont je ne comprenais rien. Je pense qu'à l'avenir, je vais continuer à écouter ce podcast quand je conduis pour pratiquer.

*Je ne sais pas comment à dire « I've never made use of it » .

je ne l'ai jamais utilisé / je ne m'en ai jamais servi — Il me semble un peu bizarre de dire « utiliser » un podcast, à moins que tu ne précises dans quel but, alors peut-être « je ne l'ai jamais utilisé pour améliorer ma compréhension orale » ou « … dans mes études françaises ».

Merci d'avoir présenté ce podcast. J'ai l'impression que l'animateur choisit des sujets passionnants qu'il traite avec sensibilité. Et j'aime qu'il y ait une transcription pour chaque épisode (même si on est obligé de créer un compte pour la voir). Pour moi, une transcription française est souvent plus utile qu'une traduction anglaise.

dEhiN wrote:One thing I was thinking about that's related to languages is the pronunciation of these online educational platforms. I've tried and know of four major platforms: edX, FutureLearn, Udemy and Coursera. Now, I naturally pronounced each of them, the first time I saw the spelling, with stress on the first syllable. So, I say /'ɛ.dɛks/, /'fjut͡ʃə(˞).lə˞n/, /'judəmi/, and /'ko˞˞ səɹʌ/. But, I recall in one of the courses on Coursera, the instructor pronounced the platform name as /ko˞'sɛɹa/, and my brother-in-law says Udemy as /ju'dɛmi/, both with stress on the second syllable. I imagine there couldn't be much, if any, variation in the pronunciation of edX, unless one were to stress the X portion. I also think the same is probably true of FutureLearn, since they are both common English words. At any rate, I just found it interesting that my natural assumption for the pronunciation of each platform was to stress the first syllable, and it seems like with both Coursera and Udemy, that's not how it's supposed to be 'officially' pronounced. Although, now that I try saying them with the stress on the second syllables, I have to say that it rolls off the tongue better my way.

I haven't heard of most of these, but I can tell you that "Udemy" does have initial stress, like you thought initially; that's the pronunciation it uses in ads. Also, you can hear it at around the 49-second mark in this video from the Udemy YouTube channel.
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-02-14, 18:05

Dormouse559 wrote:Merci d'avoir présenté ce podcast. J'ai l'impression que l'animateur choisit des sujets passionnants qu'il traite avec sensibilité. Et j'aime qu'il y ait une transcription pour chaque épisode (même si on est obligé de créer un compte pour la voir). Pour moi, une transcription française est souvent plus utile qu'une traduction anglaise.

Merci comme toujours pour les corrections et les explications! Est-ce que tu penses que mes compétences d'écrire en français sont dégénérer? Il me semble que le plus que j'essaie d'écrire en français, le plus que je fais des fautes. Spécialement avec le passé composé et l'imparfait, je me pense que je dois savoir par maintenant la différence entre les deux temps verbales, mais j'utilise le temps incorrect toutes les fois!

Et c'était ma plaisir de t'avoir présenté ce podcast. La problème pour moi avec les transcriptions est que j'écoute le podcast quand je conduis. Alors, je peux pas lire les transcription en même moment. J'aurais besoin de répéter l'épisode chez moi avec la transcription avant de moi pour bénéficier.
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-02-14, 18:38

Finalement, j'ai de l'opportunité de répondre à celui:

Dormouse559 wrote:Il y a quelques locutions dans ce post qui, à mon avis, devraient être modifiées, mais je ne suis pas certain de la meilleure façon de les corriger. Je donne quelques idées ci-dessous.

D'accord et merci.

Le temps de mise à jour - « C'est l'heure de la mise à jour. » ?

Pourquoi « le temps de mise à jour » ne fonctionne pas? Est-ce que la phrase a une autre signification ou c'est juste n'importe quoi?

j'ai étudie plus le galicien - « je me suis concentré sur le galicien » ?

J'ai la même question qu'au-dessus.

première don - Il me semble que tu voulais traduire skill, mais dans ce contexte, skill est un terme propre à la structure des cours Duolingo. Je suggérerais de chercher la traduction qu'utilise Duolingo sur son interface française. Aussi, étant donné que don est masculin, on écrirait plutôt premier don.

Tu as raison. Duolingo utilise la phrase « l'unité thématique » comme on peut voir ici.*

une autre fois - Cette locution se traduit en anglais par another time / some other time. Pour dire again, on peut dire « de nouveau » ou « à nouveau ». Mais dans ta phrase tu as déjà dit « réapprendre », qui communique la même idée. Alors l'adverbe est redondant, à moins que ça ne représente pas la première fois que tu laisses tomber le gallois et que tu le reprends.

Tu as raison de nouveau, l'adverbe est redondant parce que j'ai essayé d'apprendre le gallois seulement une fois dans le passé.

*Alors, pour voir la traduction française dont Duolingo utilise, j'ai commencé d'apprendre l'allemand de la français. Celui a changé l'interface d'anglais à français. Donc, j'ai essayé aussi le premier leçon pour la première unité et j'ai commencé a lire les conseils pour cette première unité. C'était bien pratique pour lire en français et traduire d'allemand à français ou l'opposé!
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-02-14, 22:52

Update time: Before I share on specific languages, I'm going to do a quick, general update. So, this past week I didn't do much language study; actually I basically did nothing! I was completely focused on my online coursework. They're my priority partially because that's my focus for work, but mostly because I'm on unemployment with the government and I only really have it until sometime in May. So, the sooner I can finish any online courses that I think will help me find a good job, the more time I'll have to look for said good job. To that end, I have 2 more courses to do - one more for the professional certificate I've been taking, and another one that I decided would also benefit me. The other one starts tomorrow, so I expect next week to be like last week - focused solely on coursework. I'll probably interact on here for breaks and such, but I'm not sure I'll have the mental bandwidth to do any actual language study.

(en-ca) / (de) - I shared in my response to Dormouse559 that in order to figure out the word Duolingo uses in French for what they call a skill in English, I had to start learning a language from French. So, I picked German! I've studied some German in the past, and I'm not planning to seriously study German. It was just fun to do the first few lessons for the German-from-French tree. It was challenging but also enjoyable to have to write my answers in French. Sometimes I almost forgot and started to write in English. (In general, for any writing exercises, I try to use the keyboard instead of Duo's word bank, though sometimes I switch to the word bank to get some listening practice since when you click on a word in the word bank, the audio for it plays.) I found that when I read the activity instructions, since they were in French, I would then automatically go to respond in French. In the spirit of the Duo updates that I used to do, I'm going to post my current stats for German from French. Remember that this indicates an increase in a skill level or language stat; also, I'm going to write out the French names with the English translations in brackets:

German (de) Allemand (German)
Partie (Section) 1:
Niveau (Level) 0/5 - Bases 1 (2/5 leçons accomplis jusqu'au niveau 1) [Basics 1 (2/5 lessons completed toward Level 1)]
Résumé (Summary) :
Niveau 1, 29 XP, 0 couronnes (crowns)

(en-ca) / (es) - I was showing my gf how I had started German from French and she wanted to try doing one lesson. This then led me to try Spanish from French. I already have done a bunch of Spanish from English; I have something like almost 800 XP and am on level 7 for the language, however a lot of that is from work done in the past that I invariably reset after a big break. It seems that when you reset your learning progress in Duo, the overall language XP and level stats are still kept. So, while I have all that XP in Spanish from English, I only have something like 6 crowns. But the weird thing is that when I went to add Spanish from French, it was already selected out of the list of languages I could choose to learn (for someone who speaks French). Then, when I clicked on it, instead of what usually happens, which is that you're presented with the option to take a placement test or just start with the first skill, I could only start with the first skill. I did however, scroll down and try to test out of Checkpoint 1 (basically all of Section 1), but in the end didn't go through with it. I started the test and almost finished it. However, I did lose all 3 hearts in the process, and had to look up things on WordReference for confirmation of spellings, etc. In fact, the first heart that I lost, I lost because the question was to translate bebo agua "I drink water" to French, and I wrote je bois l'eau, completely forgetting about the partitive article in French since Spanish doesn't use a partitive article! In the end, since I had to confirm stuff and was making mistakes, I decided to stop the test. Instead, I did the first lesson for the first skill. Oddly enough though, while Duolingo will show me that I have two Spanish courses started - Spanish from English, and Spanish from French - I still have the same XP and language level for Spanish. The crowns don't transfer over, so I still have 6 crowns for the Spanish from English course and 0 crowns for the Spanish from French one, but it looks like overall XP and language level are counted globally?! That kind of seems like a cop-out to me, and personally I would rather see completely separate stats for each course. Anyway, as I did for German, here are my Duo stats so far for Spanish from French:

Spanish (es) Espagnol (Spanish)
Partie (Section) 1:
Niveau (Level) 0/5 - Bases (1/3 leçons accomplis jusqu'au niveau 1) [Basics (1/3 lessons completed toward Level 1)]
Résumé (Summary) :
Niveau 7, 780 XP, 0 couronnes (crowns)

(en-ca) / (cy) - Since I don't believe I ever showed my Welsh Duo stats, I'll post them here as well:

Welsh (cy) Welsh
Section 1:
Level 3/5 - Greet 1
Language Summary:
Level 1, 29 XP, 3 crowns
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-12, 21:38

Wow, it's been almost a whole month since my last post! I've basically done no real language study as I've been focused on finishing my online courses, which I did (yay!), and starting the job search process. I've encountered several postings for bilingual positions, which has made me want to make a concerted effort to up my French game. But first, I learned a some new Tamil words recently as well as a new French word!

(en-ca) / (ta-lk) I forget now how I came across these words, but I think I was trying to write something in Tamil. Anyway, I was using TamilDict.com and found 2 words that I knew once but had forgotten as well as 3 new words:

கீரிபிள்ளை - mongoose
கண்ணாடி - glass
மூக்குக் கண்ணாடி - (eye)glasses
மணல் - sand
ஆறு - river

I knew ஆறு before, though I had first learned it as the number six. I then later learned the river meaning. I also knew கண்ணாடி, though I learned it in the context of (eye)glasses, meaning I always thought you could use it to refer to one's glasses. I did know that the word technically meant glass. I think I had first looked up கீரிபிள்ளை because I came across it somewhere, and was curious the etymology since பிள்ளை means child! I couldn't find a specific meaning for கீரி, which is a shame.

(en-ca) / (fr) Looking up the Tamil word for mongoose led me to check out the Tamil Wikipedia page for mongoose. (This was mainly because TamilDict translated the word as racoon, but all the pictures I found for the Tamil word didn't look like a racoon!) This led me to the French Wikipedia page for mongoose:

une mangouste - mongoose
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:27056
Joined:2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name:Vijay John
Gender:male
Location:Austin, Texas, USA
Country:USUnited States (United States)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-03-13, 15:18

dEhiN wrote:கீரிபிள்ளை - mongoose
மூக்குக் கண்ணாடி - (eye)glasses

So eyeglasses in Tamil are nose glasses? :lol:

Malayalam has all of the words you listed except these two.
I think I had first looked up கீரிபிள்ளை because I came across it somewhere, and was curious the etymology since பிள்ளை means child! I couldn't find a specific meaning for கீரி, which is a shame.

Yeah. கீரி by itself means mongoose as well, both in Malayalam and in Tamil. கீரிபிள்ளை is apparently just another way of saying it. பிள்ளை is kind of a weird word in our languages. It can mean 'kid', or it can be the name of a rather high-ranking subcaste (traditionally of noblemen, IINM).

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-23, 3:12

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:கீரிபிள்ளை - mongoose
மூக்குக் கண்ணாடி - (eye)glasses

So eyeglasses in Tamil are nose glasses? :lol:

Malayalam has all of the words you listed except these two.
I think I had first looked up கீரிபிள்ளை because I came across it somewhere, and was curious the etymology since பிள்ளை means child! I couldn't find a specific meaning for கீரி, which is a shame.

Yeah. கீரி by itself means mongoose as well, both in Malayalam and in Tamil. கீரிபிள்ளை is apparently just another way of saying it. பிள்ளை is kind of a weird word in our languages. It can mean 'kid', or it can be the name of a rather high-ranking subcaste (traditionally of noblemen, IINM).

I totally forgot to respond to this! Yeah, I forgot that மூக்கு is nose! I guess that's a wrong translation on TamilDict! Yeah, now I recall learning that கண் is eye and கண்ணாடி is glasses. As for பிள்ளை, I never thought of that second meaning, even though in my family genealogy, I have ancestors who had either as part of their name or as like a title, the name பிள்ளை. But I never made the connection of it being the same word as பிள்ளை 'kid'.
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-23, 3:24

(en-ca) / (fr) So, I was reading this French tech help article about the IT concept of orchestration*, and I came across a phrasing that confused me. The first two paragraphs of the article are (for context):
L'orchestration correspond à la configuration, la gestion et la coordination automatisées des systèmes informatiques, applications et services. L'orchestration facilite la gestion des tâches et workflows complexes pour le service informatique.

Les équipes du service informatique sont en charge de nombreux serveurs et applications, dont la gestion manuelle limite les possibilités d'évolution. Plus votre environnement informatique est complexe, plus la gestion de tous ses éléments mobiles l'est, elle aussi, et plus vous avez besoin de combiner des tâches automatisées et leurs configurations dans différents groupes de systèmes et de machines. C'est dans cette situation que l'orchestration peut vous aider.

The parts in colour confused me in regard to their meaning (the purple colour part) and phrasing (the red colour part). At first, I was thrown off by the plus votre ..., plus la ..., but then realized it's basically the French way of saying "the more ..., the more ...". However, I couldn't figure out what l'est meant, and had to run Google Translate on that clause as well as the whole sentence.

So, from what I understand, that sentence is saying, "The more complex your IT environment is, the more management of all its moving parts there is, and the more you have to combine automated tasks and their configurations in different groups of systems and machines." But why l'est? Or, rather, what does the l' refer to?

Also, why elle aussi; what does elle refer to? Would the sentence read fine without the elle aussi?

*If you're curious, I was reading the article in French because my Google language settings are in French, so French search results come up first. I was reading the article to learn about the concept in IT of orchestration.
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
Car
Forum Administrator
Posts:10953
Joined:2002-06-21, 19:24
Real Name:Silvia
Gender:female
Country:DEGermany (Deutschland)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby Car » 2021-03-23, 13:48

dEhiN wrote:So, from what I understand, that sentence is saying, "The more complex your IT environment is, the more management of all its moving parts there is, and the more you have to combine automated tasks and their configurations in different groups of systems and machines." But why l'est? Or, rather, what does the l' refer to?

Also, why elle aussi; what does elle refer to? Would the sentence read fine without the elle aussi?

Not sure how to explain l'est, but without it, something would be missing, est on its own wouldn't refer to anything then. Isn't l' just the pronoun le here?
elle is referring to gestion.

My translation would be: The more complex your IT environment is, the more your management of all its mobile elements is, too, the more you have to combine automated tasks and their configurations in different groups of systems and machines.

Not sure if this makes sense, maybe someone else can shed some light?
Please correct my mistakes!

Prantsis

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby Prantsis » 2021-03-24, 1:27

dEhiN wrote:But why l'est? Or, rather, what does the l' refer to?

The pronoun l' refers to the adjective complexe.
la gestion l'est = la gestion est complexe
And as Car said, it cannot be omitted.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:27056
Joined:2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name:Vijay John
Gender:male
Location:Austin, Texas, USA
Country:USUnited States (United States)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-03-24, 2:21

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:கீரிபிள்ளை - mongoose
மூக்குக் கண்ணாடி - (eye)glasses

So eyeglasses in Tamil are nose glasses? :lol:

Malayalam has all of the words you listed except these two.
I think I had first looked up கீரிபிள்ளை because I came across it somewhere, and was curious the etymology since பிள்ளை means child! I couldn't find a specific meaning for கீரி, which is a shame.

Yeah. கீரி by itself means mongoose as well, both in Malayalam and in Tamil. கீரிபிள்ளை is apparently just another way of saying it. பிள்ளை is kind of a weird word in our languages. It can mean 'kid', or it can be the name of a rather high-ranking subcaste (traditionally of noblemen, IINM).

I totally forgot to respond to this! Yeah, I forgot that மூக்கு is nose! I guess that's a wrong translation on TamilDict!

I don't think it is, actually. There seem to be a lot of examples of it online at least. Tamil Wikipedia for instance uses it...

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-26, 5:47

Car wrote:Not sure how to explain l'est, but without it, something would be missing, est on its own wouldn't refer to anything then. Isn't l' just the pronoun le here?
elle is referring to gestion.

Yeah, I figured it was necessary. I wasn't sure about elle, but that makes sense that it's referring to gestion.

Car wrote:My translation would be: The more complex your IT environment is, the more your management of all its mobile elements is, too, the more you have to combine automated tasks and their configurations in different groups of systems and machines.

Your translation makes a lot of sense, though I would probably add "and" between "too, the more".

Prantsis wrote:
dEhiN wrote:But why l'est? Or, rather, what does the l' refer to?

The pronoun l' refers to the adjective complexe.
la gestion l'est = la gestion est complexe

Oh ok, thank you!

vijayjohn wrote:I don't think it is, actually. There seem to be a lot of examples of it online at least. Tamil Wikipedia for instance uses it...

Maybe it's that கண்ணாடி can mean glass in general, if I recall correctly. So even though it can also mean eyeglasses, to be specific, மூக்குக் கண்ணாடி is used? Kind of like how we say glasses to generally refer to eyeglasses, but the full term is eyeglasses? We could also use glasses to refer to 2 or more glasses that you pour liquid into, but generally context dictates which meaning is intended.
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-26, 6:06

(en-ca) / (fr) More recently in my job hunting, I've come across postings from staffing agencies. Some of them are based in Quebec or at least have offices in Quebec. As a result, some of the postings on the actual agency sites are either bilingual, or just in French. I was reading this one in French, and was pleasantly surprised that I could understand basically all of it with only having to look up a handful of words or phrases. I also learned some new French tech words. Most of them were easy to pick up since they either looked very similar to the English equivalents, or were proper software titles with English words and so were kept the same in French. The completely new French words I learned were:

hébergés hosted
infonuagique cloud (IT sense)
pré-vente pre-sale
réseautique networking
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:27056
Joined:2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name:Vijay John
Gender:male
Location:Austin, Texas, USA
Country:USUnited States (United States)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-03-26, 7:48

dEhiN wrote:Maybe it's that கண்ணாடி can mean glass in general, if I recall correctly. So even though it can also mean eyeglasses, to be specific, மூக்குக் கண்ணாடி is used? Kind of like how we say glasses to generally refer to eyeglasses, but the full term is eyeglasses? We could also use glasses to refer to 2 or more glasses that you pour liquid into, but generally context dictates which meaning is intended.

In Malayalam, AFAIK, கண்ணாடி can either mean 'glass' the material or 'eyeglasses'. If we specifically mean eyeglasses, we can apparently say [kəɳˈɳəɖa], although I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone say it. For a drinking glass, we just say [gɭæːs] AFAIK.

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-27, 18:27

(en-ca) / (fr) I was reading about a company I have upcoming interview with, and because this company has both a French and English version of their website, I started checking out the French version. Their synopsis about themselves consisted of a bunch of new French words, which I had to look up! The synopsis and new words are:
Le Groupe TMX exploite des marchés mondiaux. Il met au point des solutions d’analyse et bâtit des communautés numériques appuyant le financement, la croissance et la réussite des entreprises, des négociateurs et des investisseurs.


exploiter to operate/manage (in addition to the obvious meaning of exploit)
mettre au point to develop
bâtir - to build
numérique(s) - digital
appuyer - to support
la croissance - growth
croître - to grow
des négociateurs - traders (in the context of financial markets)

Some of them, like négociateurs and numérique, I thought I knew the meaning of, but was mistaken (at least in this context). For some reason, with numérique, I think of a mathematical meaning first, and forget that it actually refers to the digital world. I feel like I should've known appuyer, but for some reason couldn't remember. I realize now that I was confusing it with apporter, although when I first read the synopsis, I got the gist of the word from the context. I definitely didn't know exploiter could mean to operate, and I also didn't realize mettre au point was a verbal phrase. As a result, I kept trying to understand how mettre made sense! Lastly, bâtir and la croissance were both completely new to me! I thought bâtit was related to battre and croissance was related to croire.

I have some questions on usage and why those particular words were chosen.

1) Do construire and édifier relate more to building or constructing physical objects, while bâtir is used for figurative meanings?

2) Is there are difference between croître and grandir in connotation or usage environments?

3) Is there any special difference between appuyer and soutenir or supporter? I'm wondering if there was maybe a particular reason that appuyant was used in the synopsis over soutenant, which would've been my go-to to convey support.
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

User avatar
Dormouse559
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:6939
Joined:2010-05-30, 0:06
Real Name:Matthew
Gender:male
Country:USUnited States (United States)

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby Dormouse559 » 2021-03-29, 17:19

dEhiN wrote:1) Do construire and édifier relate more to building or constructing physical objects, while bâtir is used for figurative meanings?

No, bâtir can be used literally. (In fact, my mnemonic for it is the connection to bâtiment "building".) Édifier is usually reserved for big or culturally significant structures, so monuments, churches, palaces, large buildings. I'd say construire and bâtir are roughly synonymous with each other in building contexts, and they both have metaphorical uses, though it seems like construire has a more diverse set.

2) Is there are difference between croître and grandir in connotation or usage environments?

Croître and grandir have a lot of overlap. In my experience, croître is somewhat preferred when discussing plants or hair. Grandir can have the sense of "grow up". But they can still be used in a lot of the same contexts.

3) Is there any special difference between appuyer and soutenir or supporter? I'm wondering if there was maybe a particular reason that appuyant was used in the synopsis over soutenant, which would've been my go-to to convey support.

I don't know of a major difference in connotation between appuyer and soutenir. I tend to use the latter more, but that may just be an artifact of how I was taught the language. I normally use appuyer in the phrase appuyer sur "to press (a button)". Supporter is a partial false friend. It has the physical "hold up" meaning of "support"; also, it is apparently used in the sense of backing a team, but this is an Anglicism. The main use of supporter is "put up with" or "be able to stand sth" (Je ne supporte pas ton impolitesse ! = I can't stand your bad manners!)
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-03-30, 1:19

Dormouse559 wrote:Édifier is usually reserved for big or culturally significant structures, so monuments, churches, palaces, large buildings.
[...]
The main use of supporter is "put up with" or "be able to stand sth" (Je ne supporte pas ton impolitesse ! = I can't stand your bad manners!)

Thanks for clarifying! So, the choice of wording in that synopsis was probably just what those responsible for the website content decided upon?
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts:27056
Joined:2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name:Vijay John
Gender:male
Location:Austin, Texas, USA
Country:USUnited States (United States)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby vijayjohn » 2021-03-30, 7:15

dEhiN wrote:For some reason, with numérique, I think of a mathematical meaning first, and forget that it actually refers to the digital world.

I do, too. I didn't even know it could refer to the digital world.
So, the choice of wording in that synopsis was probably just what those responsible for the website content decided upon?

Do you mean the reason why they used bâtit instead of construit and appuyant instead of soutenant?

User avatar
dEhiN
Posts:6828
Joined:2013-08-18, 2:51
Real Name:David
Gender:male
Location:Toronto
Country:CACanada (Canada)
Contact:

Re: dEhiN's Language Log

Postby dEhiN » 2021-04-03, 17:43

vijayjohn wrote:Do you mean the reason why they used bâtit instead of construit and appuyant instead of soutenant?

Oui, exactement. Je sais que parfois, en anglais par exemple, j'ai un choix du mot dont j'utilise. Mais, des mots ont associés aux connotations, et parfois, ce n'est pas juste un choix préféré.
Native: (en-ca)
Active: (fr)(es)(pt-br)(ta-lk)(mi)(sq)(tl)
Inactive: (de)(ja)(yue)(oj)(id)(hu)(pl)(tr)(hi)(zh)(sv)(ko)(no)(it)(haw)(fy)(nl)(nah)(gl)(ro)(cy)(oc)(an)(sr)(en_old)(got)(sux)(grc)(la)(sgn-us)


Return to “Language Logs and Blogs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests