Any two-digit number of languages being learned or micro-learned in rotation

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Any two-digit number of languages being learned or micro-learned in rotation

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-28, 7:41

This is the multi-language learning log.

The other one is:
(Learning more about) The language called communication: reading between the lines, avoiding misunderstandings, patterns of behavior

I started this (multi-language) thread before I rationally learned how to always use brevity instead of non-necessary verbosity. Wasn't able to do it in a purely intuitive way before.

Even before that event, there was a number of brevity posts.

The Brevity Only part starts here:

https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=56093&start=60#p1126026

I think that even the very verbose posts do contain some useful information, too. But you have been warned :D.

                             
Hi everyone,
this is SomehowGeekyPolyglot. A grown-up man with a passion for multiple languages. For a rather long time, some of them have been a part of myself and my personality. Then as the time went on, some new ones entered my life too, and for that, I simply am very grateful. The first one was German (I still was a baby at that time, so it somehow became the native language :yep: :D ), then English, then some others.

As for this thread, I intend to post some updates from time to time when there is any learning process I'd like to share with you people. It is also possible that it would stay one of the few forum's places where I am posting something (or even the only one maybe). This is because I, for myself, sometimes feel inclined to the idea of practicing languages with one person at one time. But by that I only mean that I possibly would tend to not participate in too many open conversations. It isn't at all about not wanting to converse with several persons every day, instead, I even prefer them to be more than just two or three.

Today I not only want to introduce myself, but also to offer something. So... whoever wants to practice one of these languages with me is more than welcome to do so:

Beginner: Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, Swahili, Esperanto, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Japanese.

Advanced: French, Spanish, Dutch, Afrikaans.

You can PM me.

I'd only like you to know that it would be about a written language exchange via PM without any time pressure for any of us. I, at least for now, couldn't offer instant messaging or voice calls. You know... my current learning focus is on reading and writing. So sometimes I would need to look something up first, words or grammar, or maybe you'd like to do so, too.

Best regards and wishes,
SomehowGeekyPolyglot (or SGP, that's shorter :D )
Last edited by SomehowGeekyPolyglot on 2018-12-09, 21:55, edited 10 times in total.

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Taking language suggestions for now

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-28, 17:39

Some news... That SGP :lol: is taking language suggestions, at least for now.
If there is a certain one that you'd recommend to me, I'd like to know what it is, and a few of your reasons, too. This would be about myself starting with it, in order to reach beginner's level only for now (reading/writing).

The suggestions are possible by PM and e-mail. I'd prefer them to be sent there rather than being posted as a reply, because I'd like to keep this thread as content-dense as possible. :wink:

As this particular matter is about language learning suggestions, rather than an exchange, I may or may not be able to reply to all of them. But I definitely do intend to read every single of those messages, even if they maybe, just maybe, would be rather many.

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-29, 12:32

A few thoughts:

[ES] There are much more verb forms than those being used on a daily base in everyday conversations.

[JP, SWA] There is a spoken question mark in Japanese (-ka?).

This is like je/-je in Swahili. But in this language, it could be at the beginning of the sentence. Then it is a word on its own: Je, ... .

So unlike many other Bantu syllables [postfixes,prefixes,...], it doesn't stick to the next word in this case. They stay two distinct words.

But when it is put at the end of the sentence, it does stick to the word before. Like ...-je?

(In the case of Kiswahili, that hyphen/dash [-] isn't being written. And as for Nihongo, it is included in some transcriptions only.)

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-29, 14:10

[Another thing that JP and SWA have in common]

In Japanese, the singular and plural forms of nouns are the same.

And in Swahili, this is true for a number of nouns, too. That number isn't a small one at all.

Yes, those with different singular and plural wordings are much, much more. But those Noun Twins still are many.

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What do you like to know about PT RO SWA SV NO DA NL AF JP EO?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-29, 19:51

This post is directed towards those of you who are learning any of:
- Portuguese (basic to lower intermediate)
- Romanian (basic to lower intermediate)
- Swahili (basic to lower intermediate)
- Swedish, Norwegian, Danish (basic to upper intermediate)
- Dutch, Afrikaans (basic to upper intermediate)
- Japanese (basic)
- Esperanto (basic to lower intermediate) [EDIT - didn't include it in the original post]

Is there something in particular about any of those languages that you'd like to be covered in this log?
Usually I simply would post something about the ongoing learning progress related to my list's languages. (BTW, not learning all of them at the same time at all. How could I even do so?)

But today it is about something different. Today I'd like to know if there are any general and broad-scope topics related to any of those that you'd like to be covered here. Any of those mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Because if you ask a question of that kind, then there is another good reason to continue with that specific language.

If I know the answer, I simply could post it, after a bit of additional research for the sake of a more complete reply. This would be a way of continuing to learn it, too. And if I don't know the answer, I of course need to look it up first in order to answer it, so that would be another way of studying.

Examples of questions that qualify for the currently intended purpose:

- What are some genuine characteristics of Swahili that aren't found in many other languages?

- What are the parallels or differences between Dutch and Swedish?

- Can you think of any Portuguese verb conjugation patterns, re-occurring schemes and so on?

- How does Romanian differ from the other four Romance languages (Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese)?
[And no, I am not saying that there are only five spoken Romance languages today. There are more. But those five are included in the learning list]

Examples of questions that don't qualify for that purpose:

- What are some Japanese greetings?

- How do you say "rocket science" in Romanian?

- What is the Portuguese indicative imperfect form of "to go"?

So if you people gave me some input, I do think that I could give you some output. :D

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby Osias » 2018-10-29, 21:52

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:[ES] There are much more verb forms than those being used on a daily base in everyday conversations.

In portuguese we have more and use almost all. Except things like mesóclise and mais-que-perfeito.
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-29, 23:11

Osias wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:[ES] There are much more verb forms than those being used on a daily base in everyday conversations.

In portuguese we have more and use almost all. Except things like mesóclise and mais-que-perfeito.


Really? Even more?
As for myself, If I was thinking whether Portuguese or Spanish has more verb tenses, I would be a bit puzzled. :wink: The answer could depend on a few things, like how many compostos / compuestos there are and so on. But at the same time, I wouldn't say that it necessarily matters that much. It's not that these two languages (or two different ways of continuing the Latin linguistical heritage) are competing against each other or something similar. :D To say that I only like both of them would be an understatement, instead, I do love them and several others.

In addition, even if there are many ways of talking about the verbs (all of those tenses), it still wouldn't mean that all of them have to be used all the time. :yep: :) There still is the possibility of some people (like myself, for example) choosing a more simplified way of speech, while still being able to express what they intend to say.

Now what about the juice of cana-de-açúcar? Do you like to drink it? And what about others in your country? Is it generally something they like to drink, or not?

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby Osias » 2018-10-30, 0:02

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Really? Even more?

Spanish have 40 and something if I recall correctly and Portuguese 50 and something. Including unique things like 'personal infinitive' that even illiterate people use everyday without noticing.

But the vowel repository of 17 versus 5 is a bigger problem for the learner, IMHO.

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Now what about the juice of cana-de-açúcar? Do you like to drink it? And what about others in your country? Is it generally something they like to drink, or not?
I haven't had a caldo de cana in years because of my diet. It's toooooo sweet. I remember liking it. These days I am not sure I would still like, when even Coca Cola tastes too sweet to me.

It's a popular drink when you're in a feira, I've never seen it be drank elsewhere.
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-30, 1:05

Osias wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Really? Even more?

Spanish have 40 and something if I recall correctly and Portuguese 50 and something. Including unique things like 'personal infinitive' that even illiterate people use everyday without noticing.

But the vowel repository of 17 versus 5 is a bigger problem for the learner, IMHO.

How so? By 17 versus 5, I take it you mean 17 vowels in English versus 5 in Spanish or Portuguese? If so, then personally I found learning to use only 5 vowels a lot simpler than learning all the verb conjugations. (In fact, I am only totally comfortable in the present indicative, which is sad. For a little while I was fairly familiar with the preterite for at least -ar and -er verbs in Portuguese. I think I could still recall them if I really try.)

Osias wrote:It's a popular drink when you're in a feira, I've never seen it be drank elsewhere.

If you want to use "be", then you need to say "I've never seen it be drunk elsewhere".
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby Osias » 2018-10-30, 10:33

dEhiN wrote:How so? By 17 versus 5, I take it you mean 17 vowels in English versus 5 in Spanish or Portuguese?

I mean 17 in pt versus 5 in es.

dEhiN wrote: I found learning to use only 5 vowels a lot simpler than learning all the verb conjugations.

Yeah, but I see people that only knew 5 struggling with the new ones. Even I struggle with the English ones sill today.
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-30, 12:10

Is there anything you would recommend for learning how to pronounce the different Portuguese vowels?

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby linguoboy » 2018-10-30, 20:21

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:In Japanese, the singular and plural forms of nouns are the same.

And in Swahili, this is true for a number of nouns, too. That number isn't a small one at all.

Yes, those with different singular and plural wordings are much, much more. But those Noun Twins still are many.

There's a significant difference, though, insofar as Swahili has noun agreement and this does reflect number even when the form of the noun doesn't. For instance:

ndege mkubwa kuliko ndege wote duniani "the biggest bird in the world" [lit. "bird big than bird all world"]. (Cf. ndege wakubwa "big birds".)
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-30, 20:44

linguoboy wrote:There's a significant difference, though, insofar as Swahili has noun agreement and this does reflect number even when the form of the noun doesn't. For instance:

ndege mkubwa kuliko ndege wote duniani "the biggest bird in the world" [lit. "bird big than bird all world"]. (Cf. ndege wakubwa "big birds".)


It is very true that Swahili's noun classes aren't about the nouns themselves only. They are related to much more, like the adjectives as you pointed out, the verbs, and words like yangu, wangu, yako, lako, etc.

(By some words having "different singular and plural wordings" and others not having it, I only meant the form of the noun itself).

And before you appeared :D , I already started wondering where the Swahili speakers and learners are. Although in I didn't find it in your list of languages, but still.. you at least know something about it, or possibly even more than that. So... are you learning it right now, or not?

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby linguoboy » 2018-10-30, 21:03

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:And before you appeared :D , I already started wondering where the Swahili speakers and learners are. Although in I didn't find it in your list of languages, but still.. you at least know something about it, or possibly even more than that. So... are you learning it right now, or not?

I haven't tried actively learning a Bantu language for years, but I still remember a thing or two. (My language list is full of inaccuracies but updating it is a can o' worms.)
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-30, 21:15

I see... so... I of course wouldn't want you to open any can of worms.

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby Osias » 2018-10-30, 22:03

SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Is there anything you would recommend for learning how to pronounce the different Portuguese vowels?

I don't know what to suggest except music.
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-31, 4:31

Osias wrote:
SomehowGeekyPolyglot wrote:Is there anything you would recommend for learning how to pronounce the different Portuguese vowels?

I don't know what to suggest except music.

YouTube videos? There are plenty of channels that teach Portuguese, including pronunciation.
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-10-31, 7:23

dEhiN, yes there are many videos teaching Portuguese (and its pronounciation).
But maybe it's time for narrowing down my question a bit. :)

I was wondering how exactly to learn to pronounce all those different vowels.
Because they are so many, there are several ones that sound a bit similar.

Spanish, on the other hand, has 5 vowels only (if I am not mistaken, and not counting diphtongs).
So if someone was a native of Spanish (or of any other language with far less vowels than Portuguese), what could he do in order to learn them?

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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby Luís » 2018-10-31, 8:43

I'm not really sure where osias got the number 17 from (maybe he's counting some diphthongs as well?)

(Standard) European Portuguese has 14 different vowels, Brazilian Portuguese should have 13 (not counting allophones). Sure, it's more than Spanish but still less than French... :P
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Re: [not really a TAC, but ... ] PT RO IT FR ES SV DA NO SWA EO JP NL AF & language exchange offer in any of those

Postby Osias » 2018-10-31, 10:47

I've seen 17 several times in several places along the years... I just can't find any, now, to back me.

ANYWAY there are plenty more than Spanish. And the ones that change in the end of syllabes according to emphasis, like 'tudo' (tudu/tudô).
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