TAC 2018 - Vijay

[vijayjohn]

Happy New Year, everyone! Today, I'm starting off a new TAC!

My TAC languages will be the same as they were last year:

► Show Spoiler

Malayalam
Mandarin Chinese
French
German
Latin
Portuguese
Spanish
BCS
Russian
Turkish
Arabic
Amharic
Dinka
English
Krio
Swahili
Hindi
ASL
Thai
Tagalog
Indonesian
Oirata
Teiwa
Australian Kriol
Light Warlpiri
Quechua
Mapudungun
Lnuismk
Michif

In addition, I will try to see whether I can learn anything much in the following supplementary languages (Malagasy is a bit special in that I've always wanted to add it to my TAC because I already speak just a little bit of it. I worked on a research project almost a decade ago that involved working pretty closely with data in Malagasy):

► Show Spoiler

Yoruba
Koyra Chiini
Khoekhoe
Iwaidja
Enindhilyagwa
Kala Lagaw Ya
Ternate
Lower Grand Valley Dani
Meriam Mir
Manat
Skou
Waris
Atayal
Malagasy
Fijian
Nicaraguan Sign Language
British Sign Language (this one is mostly just a joke, though)
Chinook Jargon
Nootka
Tlingit
Seneca
Cape Verdean Creole
Guinea-Bissau Creole

However, before I begin a good old-fashioned Vijay-style TAC round, I intend to start out by just quizzing myself over all the vocabulary (and stuff) I've been trying to review in my TAC languages. (So basically, this will start with me trying to remember the first 216 lines of the poem in Somewhathypersanskritizedmalayalam I've been trying to memorize...but fortunately, I've kind of been trying to do that anyway ). And of course I'LL BE GOING TO HALF-PRICE BOOKS BECAUSE THE WEATHER'S GONNA BE NICE AND IT'LL BE SO MUCH FUN IT'LL BE LIKE MY MOM AT THE MALL SQUEEEEEEEE!!!

One thing I've been thinking might be cool is if I quiz myself over that vocabulary and then also post a record of everything I got wrong while going through it. That way, maybe we could get a more objective sense of how well I recall things I'm trying to learn.

[vijayjohn]

So I managed to remember all my lines in Mayura Sandesham, i.e. the beginning of the poem I mentioned that I've been trying to memorize, and all the French vocabulary in this post but somehow forgot the German word for 'original, initial' (ursprünglich) and got it mixed up with geringfügig, and I don't even remember what geringfügig means off the top of my head. I also forgot that 'general knowledge' is apparently Allgemeinwissen and not Allgemeinkenntnis. (I remember everything else I listed in German there, though). In Dinka, I forgot that 'welcome' is either luɔɔr or luɔɔr cööl, or at least that I'd written it in that post as luɔɔr (cööl) rather than luɔɔr/cööl. I also forgot 'I welcome you'. I thought it was just yïn ca luɔɔr, but apparently, it's actually yïn ca loor/yïn ca cɔɔl. This is where I've stopped for the time being.

Apart from the part about the poem, none of this is saying all that much, really.

[vijayjohn]

After my last post, I was going to go just drink tea and have, er, my first meal of the day (yes, of course I eat my first meal of the day after 12 PM despite having eaten nothing at all in about 16 hours; why do you ask? It's not like there's anything weird or unhealthy about that, is there? Inb4 IT'S BRUNCH!!! ), but I couldn't resist and kept going through my Dinka vocabulary, only to realize that I completely forgot to add two phrases! Also, there's one /quote tag too many in there. I mixed up 'cheek' and 'cheeks' (they're identical except that the first is pronounced with a high tone and the second with a low tone) and forgot all about yï, yïn, and yïïn all meaning 'you' in Dinka. I also forgot Ye yïn cɔl ŋa? for 'What's your name?' and the në ('from'?) in ɣɛn abɔ në 'I come from'. I almost managed to get E yïn bɔ tëno? 'Where do you come from?' right, twice. The second time at least, the part that tripped me up was bɔ (as opposed to abɔ in the response).

[księżycowy]

After my last post, I was going to go just drink tea and have, er, my first last meal of the day my life

Fixed that for you, buddy o' pal of mine.

[vijayjohn]

The Last Ridiculously Late Breakfast.

In Krio, I slipped up with ˈplasas 'stew made of fish, meat, palm oil, and veggies', but I think that was only because I was being hasty and confused it with ˈplaba 'discussion, conference? contention??' (I'm not entirely sure what exactly it means, but ˈplasas apparently comes from ˈplaba sɔs ). I also forgot that the first vowel in kɔˈfi 'coffee' was ɔ. I got Ruˈbi (Ruby, a woman's name) and ˈrubi (ruby as in the jewel) mixed up. I got 'you have walked' wrong; I thought it was yu bin ˈwaka when in fact, it's yu ˈdɔn wâkà. I forgot that ˈblant, which my advisor described as a "habitual indicating the availability of an option," apparently has a high tone at least in isolation. I also got a nó dè wâka 'I'm not walking/I don't walk' wrong (I thought that would be a nóbà wâkà, but then saw I was wrong and realized that it was the next vocabulary item, which in English was listed as 'I didn't walk'). I kind of forgot that nɔ isn't stressed (in the next line on that page), as is ˈbig 'old' (in the line after that). I remembered everything else correctly.

[vijayjohn]

I remembered everything I listed for French, but in Chinese, I had a brainfart over 神话 'fairy tale, mythology, myth', and in German, I remembered wrong how to say that some shoes 'go off and on very quickly' (man kann sie schnell aus- und anziehen; for some reason, I forgot the man kann sie part and tried to make anziehen the main verb, even though I was putting it at the end ...another one of those brainfarts of mine ). I also forgot that 'to talk insistently to someone' is not a reflexive verb, so it's just auf jemanden einsprechen, not *sich auf jemanden einsprechen. I remembered 'to edit to improve or until almost completely rewritten' as überschreiben instead of überarbeiten; überschreiben means something else...ah, it means 'to override' in object-oriented programming. Haha, this is one of those times when I don't even know what the English means. Well, I kind of know what it means, but I haven't done programming in quite a while, so I don't really care, either. But basically, I think it's when you have two constraints, and one "overrides" the other, so the other one doesn't affect the result or whatever. I think I had another brainfart over sich überarbeiten 'to work oneself to death(?)'. I completely forgot both der Anlass 'cause, motive, occasion (and starting??)' and die Auflage 'edition, condition(s, e.g. on parolee)'. I got everything else in both languages right.

In Portuguese, I forgot that 'the gas station' is a bomba da gasolina (I couldn't remember whether it was da or de and ended up just looking instead of racking my brains or whatever). I remembered everything else. In Spanish, I forgot only the following expressions: dar para 'to be enough', no dar para más 'to not be enough', and maybe even no dar más 'to not resist any longer'. In Latin, I remembered everything except the very last word on my list, which I just couldn't remember for the life of me: ingredior 'I go into/onto, enter (upon), engage in, apply myself to, begin, commence, advance, proceed, march, walk/move in/towards'. I should've remembered that from ingredient in English, which for some reason I didn't really remember came from that until just now!

In Russian, I somehow managed to forget that the verb скучать 'to be bored' takes the preposition от (for 'to be bored with'), and I completely forgot (again!!) the word появиться 'to appear, show up, emerge (perfective)', but I remembered everything else. I remembered everything in Turkish because that list was easy! In Dinka, I forgot what the exact tones involved where in the word akɔ̈ɔ̈n 'elephant'; I forgot whether it was mid-high-mid or low-high-low or what (it's low-mid-low). I misremembered the vowels in the words bul and lɔ̈ɔ̈r, both meaning 'drum'. I remembered everything else in this post. I also remembered everything in my Swahili list.

In Thai, I misremembered the tones in ย่า 'paternal grandmother', แก้ม 'cheek', นาน 'a long time', ต่าง in ต่างจังหวัด 'outside Bangkok', ย่าง 'to roast, broil, grill', and หนองคาย 'Nongkhai'. I also got the words for 'uncle' and 'aunt' kind of mixed up because I forgot the word น้า 'mother's younger sibling'. I also forgot ป้า 'older aunt', โผ 'to swoop', ไล่ 'to chase away', นิดหนึ่ง 'a little bit', ดัง 'loud', ครู่ 'a moment', ไช้ได้ 'reasonable, acceptable', แน่น 'to be crowded', น่า 'to be worthy of', เขี่ย 'to rake', ที่เขี่ยบุหรี่ 'ashtray', หน่อไม้ 'bamboo shoot', and ล้าง 'to wash'; had a bit of trouble remembering รู้สึก 'to feel'; and misremembered ชัด 'clear', ไม่...เลย 'not...at all', สูง 'high'. I remembered everything else I listed.

[vijayjohn]

In Tagalog, I remembered everything except for the words/phrases humihinga pa 'just surviving', maigi 'good (enough?)', kisame 'ceiling', pintô/pintuan 'door', damo 'grass', tawag 'to call', and tawagan mo na lang ako 'give me a call, okay?'. I had some trouble remembering bawang 'garlic' and sitaw 'beans' as well. In Indonesian, the only thing I forgot was saya pesan 'I wish to order some...'. In Oirata, I forgot tana 'hand' (I thought it was *tene or something, because I got it confused with tenen 'right', which I also don't think I really remembered correctly), rusunu 'canoe, proa', and raini 'boat', but remembered everything else and seem to have successfully memorized what I have of the creation myth. In Teiwa, I remembered everything except narat (emaq) 'my niece' and the fact that ma o'on comes after un axala' gasiban in the phrase un axala' gasiban ma o'on 'is hiding behind his mother'.

[vijayjohn]

In Australian Kriol, I remembered everything except that the word for "y'all" (when talking to more than two people) in Barunga is yubala as opposed to yumob in other varieties and that in Kimberley, the word for 'they' or 'them (accusative)' is ol, and the reflexive pronoun is just jelp. In (Light) Warlpiri, I forgot only inya 'that', that 'a thorn pierced him' is im panturnum watiyang (actually, I just forgot to add the -ng (even though I remembered that this morning!) and didn't use this exact same word order, but Warlpiri is pretty flexible about word order anyway FWIR), and everything in this post, which I only just wrote yesterday.

[vijayjohn]

Remembered everything in Cusco Quechua except that I had another brainfart (I'm using that word way too often...) and thought 'y'all' in Quechua was qanchis instead of qankuna even though qanchis means 'seven'. Also forgot that 'no' is not ever manan, apparently; that the diminutive suffix is -cha, not *-chu; that 'one' in Cusco is (if my notes are right) huq, not *huk; 'three' is kinsa, not *kimsa; nine is isq'un with the glottal stop, 'to look for' is maskhay, not *maskhuy; 'to know, recognize, examine' is riqsiy, not *niqsiy; 'to see' is rikuy, not rimay, which means 'to speak' (I get those mixed up so easily!); the cislocative suffix is -mu; and 'with' is -wan, not *-man.

[vijayjohn]

In Mapudungun, I remembered everything except that I tried translating 'my name is' the same was as 'I am called' (which I only encounter later in the list) instead of as [ˈiɲtʃe ɲi ɨj ta] and I forgot everything in this post except the first two words, and also that [təˈfat͡ʃi] is the adjective meaning 'this' whereas the pronominal form is [ˈtɨfa], that 'when' is [t͡ʃuˈmɨl], that 'boy' for some speakers is [ˈkempu], and that 'girl' for some speakers is [maˈlen].

[vijayjohn]

In Lnuismk, I remembered everything except that I misremembered Mikma'ji'j as *Mi'kma'jij or something, apoqnmask 'helps you' as *apoqnmusk, musikisk 'sky' as *musikîsk, musikiskîtuk 'in the sky(?)' as musikiskituk, te'sikiskîk 'every day' as *te'sikiskuk. I also forgot that 'the boy is small' is apje'jit lpa'tuj, that 'that rock is small' is apje'jk na kunntew, that 'I see (the woman)' is nmi'k (e'pit), that 'I see the table' is nmitu ptauti, that 'little knife' is waqnji'j, that waqnji'j also means the sandy area between two adjacent ponds (not rivers AFAIK so far), that 'crooked knife' is either awa'qi'kn or waqa'qanikn, that 'sunset' is kalqwasiet, that '(little) river' is sipu(ji'j), that 'wake up!' is tukwiet, that 'I am ready' is something like kiskaje', that 'it's that easy' is na teli-nqamasiaq, that 'finally' is klapis, that '(s)he is a nice person' is welmatoq, that 'let's speak Lnuismk!' is L'nui'sultinej!, that 'you go outside' is tu'wen or something, that 'it sounds good' is welta'q, and that 'where are you from?' is tami tleyawin?.

In Michif, I remembered everything except that I forgot I had marked the stress in the word keetayaan 'you have' as [kɪtaˈjaːn] rather than [ˈkɪtajaːn]; that keeyaawuk 'they have' is pronounced [ˈkiːja:wək], not *[kiːˈja:wək]; that 'do you have...?' in my list at least is ...chee kitayawow?, that 'I have' (as a response) is nidayawow, that 'how many siblings do you have [in your family]?' is tamay gohk eta shiek dans votre famee, that 'how many...do you have?' is tamay gohk li...ainyawachick, that 'where do your parents live?' is taande wekachick tay paraan, that 'where were we born?' is taande ganataowigiaak (this was really just another brainfart on my part), that keewapataenawow 'y'all see (it?)' is pronounced [kɨ̥waːpahˈteːnaːˌwaːw], that 'he sees (it?)' is wapatam, that wapatamwuk 'they see (it?)' is pronounced [ˌwaːpahˈtʌmwək], that kimiwan 'it's raining' is pronounced [ˈkɪmɨˌwan], that ikwaashkwan 'it's cloudy' is pronounced [ˈwaːʃeːʃˌkwən] (and not *[waːˈʃeːʃˌkwan] or *[ˈwaːˌʃeːʃkwan] or w/e), that 'what day is it today?' is Kay kwai anosh [kʰeː gwaːj aˈnɔʃ] la journay? or Tan ma [tʰaːn ma] (sp?) la journay anosh?, that kee-kimiwan 'it rained' is pronounced [ˈkʰikɪmɨwan] with stress on the first syllable but ka-kimiwan is pronounced [kʰaˈkɪmɨwan] with stress on the second, that 'it was sunny' is keewashaysquan [kʰiˈwaːʃeːʃˌkwan], that 'it was cloudy' is keeiquashkwan [kiˈjiːkwaʃˌkwan], that '(three days) from now' is (trwa jours) oma oschay [ʔɔˈma wɔʃˈt͡ʃɛ], and that 'do you think it'll rain?' is Kitaytaen chee chekimiwak? [kiˈteːjˌhtɛːn t͡ʃʰiː t͡ʃʰeˈkɪmɨˌwahk]. I also sort of forgot that yootin 'it's windy' is pronounced with the stress on the second syllable, rather than the first one, which is longer.

All right, so there are the results...now what? Do I keep trying to review all this vocabulary or just go on to doing another TAC round by cycling through language forums here on UL? Should I try to review Mayura Sandesham all over again, too? I'm inclined to just keep going over all this vocabulary before starting a new TAC round, but I'm currently open to suggestions!

[kevin]

I also forgot that 'to talk insistently to someone' is not a reflexive verb, so it's just auf jemanden einsprechen, not *sich auf jemanden einsprechen.

Duden behauptet, dass man "auf jmd. einsprechen" tatsächlich sagen kann (allerdings "selten"), aber der normale Ausdruck wäre für mich "auf jmd. einreden". Das Wort "einsprechen" kenne ich eigentlich nur vom Radio, Tonaufnahmen oder so.

I remembered 'to edit to improve or until almost completely rewritten' as überschreiben instead of überarbeiten; überschreiben means something else...ah, it means 'to override' in object-oriented programming.

Hm, ja, stimmt schon in Bezug auf OOP, ist aber ein bisschen speziell.

War dir "overwrite" als Grundbedeutung zu einfach? Wenn du eine Datei irgendwohin kopierst, wo eine Datei mit demselben Namen schon existiert, dann überschreibst du die alte Datei.

I think I had another brainfart over sich überarbeiten 'to work oneself to death(?)'.

As long as "to death" is used figuratively here. Essentially it's just "to work too much".

Edit: Und das war mein Brain Fart. Wieso ist der letzte Absatz auf Englisch?

[Car]

I also forgot that 'to talk insistently to someone' is not a reflexive verb, so it's just auf jemanden einsprechen, not *sich auf jemanden einsprechen.

Duden behauptet, dass man "auf jmd. einsprechen" tatsächlich sagen kann (allerdings "selten"), aber der normale Ausdruck wäre für mich "auf jmd. einreden". Das Wort "einsprechen" kenne ich eigentlich nur vom Radio, Tonaufnahmen oder so.

Das sehe ich auch so.

[vijayjohn]

Danke schön!

War dir "overwrite" als Grundbedeutung zu einfach? Wenn du eine Datei irgendwohin kopierst, wo eine Datei mit demselben Namen schon existiert, dann überschreibst du die alte Datei.

Nein. Ich habe das Wort bei Wiktionary nachgeschlagt, und das war die einzeige Übersetzung ins Englische.

I think I had another brainfart over sich überarbeiten 'to work oneself to death(?)'.

As long as "to death" is used figuratively here. Essentially it's just "to work too much".

Ja klar.

I also forgot that 'to talk insistently to someone' is not a reflexive verb, so it's just auf jemanden einsprechen, not *sich auf jemanden einsprechen.

Duden behauptet, dass man "auf jmd. einsprechen" tatsächlich sagen kann (allerdings "selten"), aber der normale Ausdruck wäre für mich "auf jmd. einreden". Das Wort "einsprechen" kenne ich eigentlich nur vom Radio, Tonaufnahmen oder so.

Das sehe ich auch so.

Ich habe beide Ausdrücke im Beginn der Geschichte „Die Lieblingsspeise der Hyänen“ von Siegfried Lenz gefunden:

Er saß mit dem Rücken zur Wand, unter dem präparierten Kopf eines Keilers, und neben ihm saßen die beiden Frauen. Ich hörte, wie die Frauen auf ihn einsprachen, hörte schon vom Eingang der Kneipe den Vorwurf in ihren Stimmen, die drohenden Ermahnungen, die sie in sein junges, bewegungsloses Gesicht hineinsprachen: abwechselnd, ungeduldig, in milder Anklage redeten sie auf ihn ein, und er saß da und schwieg.

[kevin]

Da siehst du mal, wie ungebildet ich bin.

[vijayjohn]

Die Geschichte wurde in 1959 herausgegeben. War der Ausdruck vielleicht ehemals gewöhnlicher?

[kevin]

Die Geschichte wurde in 1959 herausgegeben. War der Ausdruck vielleicht ehemals/früher gewöhnlicher?

Ich halte es für unwahrscheinlich, dass er viel gebräuchlicher war. Weder Car noch ich kennen das Wort in diesem Sinn, und 1959 ist noch nicht so lange her, dass wir ihm nicht schon begegnet wären, wenn es weit verbreitet gewesen wäre. Es ist natürlich trotzdem verständlich, und in literarischem Kontext vielleicht nicht ganz so unerwartet wie in der Alltagssprache.

[vijayjohn]

Danke nochmals!

[księżycowy]

Where're my Seneca notes, Vijay-chan?

[vijayjohn]

Hidden somewhere amongst the notes for all these other supplementary languages, księżychan.