TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-01-27, 21:43

vijayjohn wrote:Well, familiarize (in American spelling :P) is transitive, so it has to have a direct object, which in this case is myself. :)

I thought it would he considered reflexive rather than transitive, since it doesn't take any other object. We say to familiarize/familiarise oneself. I could see something like "I'm going to familiarize him with the art of etiquette" in a colloquial setting working, but it still sounds like a slang usage to me.
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-01-27, 22:04

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Well, familiarize (in American spelling :P) is transitive, so it has to have a direct object, which in this case is myself. :)

I thought it would he considered reflexive rather than transitive, since it doesn't take any other object.

It does. (To be fair, though, the second example in that link sounds slightly odd to me). I think we just tend to talk much more often about becoming familiar with something ourselves than making someone else familiar with something (after all, how or to what extent can you tell whether someone else is familiar with something? Isn't it kind of up to them to decide?).

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby voron » 2018-01-29, 3:00

Antea, you mentioned at some point that you would be learning Egyptian Arabic; how is that going?
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Antea » 2018-01-29, 8:33

voron wrote:Antea, you mentioned at some point that you would be learning Egyptian Arabic; how is that going?


Yes, it's not mentionned in my TAC, but actually, Arabic is the language I am studying the most. At present, I have a private teacher and I take 1 or 2 lessons per week. So my teacher speaks in the Egyptian dialect, and I understand him well. But it's difficult for me to actually speak in the dialect. After so many years of learning Fussha,it has become very difficult for me to change the words into another variety. So for the moment, I can understand Egyptian dialect (always depending on the vocabulary, of course), but I am still not able to talk that way :roll: and I don't know how many time it will take me to get used to it :hmm:

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby voron » 2018-01-29, 12:31

Antea wrote:Arabic is the language I am studying the most. At present, I have a private teacher and I take 1 or 2 lessons per week.

Wow that's great! Can you tell us a bit how your private lessons are organized? Do you read texts from books or news articles? Do you speak a lot? Also, does your teacher use any materials in the Egyptian dialect?
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Antea » 2018-01-29, 13:25

voron wrote:
Antea wrote:Arabic is the language I am studying the most. At present, I have a private teacher and I take 1 or 2 lessons per week.

Wow that's great! Can you tell us a bit how your private lessons are organized? Do you read texts from books or news articles? Do you speak a lot? Also, does your teacher use any materials in the Egyptian dialect?


I started the lessons 1 year ago. Till then, I had learned Arabic for 5 years here, in a language school, in the traditional way, going to classes, etc. But I studied only Fussha, and I didn't have a lot of practise in speaking. So I tried an internet lesson by Skype (actually, I started because I was learning Russian, but then I changed to Arabic :whistle: ). At the beginning, I just wanted to talk and see if I really could communicate and understand the other person. I spoke only in Fussha. And I saw that yes, it was working.

Then my teacher, when he saw my level, proposed me to watch some short videos in Arabic, and then to write a composition about them. At first it was difficult to understand, but I had to make an effort. Then in class, we corrected them and talked about them. This method worked very well for me, and then I began watching any kind of programs in Arabic. One of this videos I saw, was in Egytian dialect, and I really could not understand it well. So my teacher proposed to teach me the dialect, and I am working on it. He speaks to me in the Egyptian dialect, I watch videos in this dialect, but till now it's still difficult for me to talk in it. So he is now using a more academic material in order to organise the new structures.

And for reading, sometimes I read some articles in the internet, and talk about them with him.

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby voron » 2018-01-30, 13:29

Antea wrote:Then my teacher, when he saw my level, proposed me to watch some short videos in Arabic, and then to write a composition about them. At first it was difficult to understand, but I had to make an effort. Then in class, we corrected them and talked about them.

I think it's a great method. I tried a couple of lessons with a Syrian teacher, and he suggested that we just talk on random topics (in the Syrian dialect - because I cannot talk in fusha). I could kind of handle it but it was very exhausting, so I was not looking forward to the next lessons and dropped it.
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-01-30, 20:07

Antea wrote:I don't know how many much time

In this case you're using time as a mass noun, so you need to use much. But if you said "I don't know how many times", then time is being used as a countable noun. I think of the difference as the same as temp and fois in French.

voron wrote:Can you tell us a bit about how your private lessons are organized?


Antea wrote:Then my teacher, when he saw my level, proposed to me to watch some short videos in Arabic, and then to write a composition about them.

With an animate object (i.e., a person or animal), the indirect object is used: proposed to me. It's only with an inanimate object that the direct object is used: I propose a deal. The same rule applies to "suggest".

Also, I would probably use "suggest" in this case. There is a connotational difference between the two. With "suggest", the focus or onus is on the other person. With "propose", the focus or onus is on you.

Antea wrote:At first it was difficult to understand, but I had to make an effort. Then in class, we corrected them and talked about them. This method worked very well for me, and then I began watching any all kinds of programs in Arabic.

The word "any" is used like "much": they're used with uncountable nouns. In this case, "kind" is a countable noun (which is also why it's pluralised).

I think this idea is really cool! It is tough at first, but because you know you're going to discuss it with someone, you're motivated to stick with it. And over time, it becomes easier.

Antea wrote:One of this videos I saw, was in Egytian dialect, and I really could not understand it well. So my teacher proposed to teach me the dialect, and I am working on it.

In this case, "proposed" was a good choice.

voron wrote:so I was not looking forward to the next few lessons

I'm not sure if "next" followed by a plural noun is grammatically correct, but it sounds odd and definitely isn't common (at least from what I've heard and read). We usually either use a singular noun, or add an adjective of quantity. One exception is if you want to use the adjective "remaining"; in that case don't use "next": the remaining lessons.
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby linguoboy » 2018-01-30, 20:33

dEhiN wrote:
voron wrote:so I was not looking forward to the next few lessons

I'm not sure if "next" followed by a plural noun is grammatically correct, but it sounds odd and definitely isn't common (at least from what I've heard and read). We usually either use a singular noun, or add an adjective of quantity. One exception is if you want to use the adjective "remaining"; in that case don't use "next": the remaining lessons.

There's nothing grammatically wrong with using "next" before a plural noun, but I agree it sounds much more natural to have a quantifier intervening. (It may help to know that etymologically next is "nearest".) Another possibility would be using "upcoming" instead.
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Antea » 2018-03-02, 11:36

(krl), (fi) So, I am putting also the flag of Karelian, because I obviously don't know anymore what I am studying. I am still following Assimil "Le finnois sans peine", but all the videos I see on Youtube are in Karelian, because it's the only thing I can find similar to Finnish (because there are no videos in Finnish, I don't know why :para: ). I am also subscribed to some Russian sites focused on learning Karelian vocabulary.

So now I am beginning to have some passive vocabulary, and I am beginning to study the grammar. I don't know where all this will lead me, but I am still trying.

(ru) I have gone back to review Russian. After a year of intensively studying Arabic, I find that I still can understand Russian quite well.....but that I can only answer in Arabic.... :hmm: It's really a problem. When I want to say something, only arabic words come to my mind. And I don't know how to solve this without losing Arabic :roll:

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Naava » 2018-03-02, 11:49

Antea wrote:(because there are no videos in Finnish, I don't know why :para: ).

??
Could I help you? What kind of videos would you need?

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Antea » 2018-03-02, 11:53

Naava wrote:
Antea wrote:(because there are no videos in Finnish, I don't know why :para: ).

??
Could I help you? What kind of videos would you need?


Thanks. I am still a beginner so I usually look for videos about cultural things, languages, or even news. What I have found in Karelian is the Russian channel of the regional news (Karelia). But I haven't been able to find anything like this in Finnish.

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Antea » 2018-03-02, 11:57

This is, for example, the kind of videos I am watching. I have noticed that some of the vocabulary is the same with Finnish, so I am using this because I don't have anything more.

https://youtu.be/Y6l4PzY5RZY

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Naava » 2018-03-02, 12:44

Antea wrote:I am still a beginner so I usually look for videos about cultural things, languages, or even news.

You should be able to watch news in simple Finnish here.

Youtube:

I think you might like Dave Cad and Gen Takagi. Dave Cad is a Brit who has visited Finland many times (and is now planning to move to Helsinki) because he has a Finnish fiancée. If you're interested in the culture, he has lots of videos about that (especially foods and drinks and sweets). He has some videos of him learning Finnish, too! (Big bonus: he's funny. :D)

Gen Takagi is a Japanese, and like Dave, he has a Finnish girlfriend. He makes most of his videos in Finnish (and although his pronunciation isn't perfect, the grammar's fine - I think his girlfriend is helping him). Bonus: some of his Finnish videos have Finnish subtitles, too. Bonus 2: he's so cute!

This one is just adorable. Maybe not so much about culture but awwww! You need to see it!

You can also find comedy sketches with subtitles. I'm not sure if you're interested in these but hey, you've got native speakers who are not reading from a paper. Imo that's a plus. :)

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby Antea » 2018-03-02, 12:54

Naava wrote:You should be able to watch news in simple Finnish here.


Thank you a lot! :D All the links you have posted will be of great help for me :yep:

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-03-03, 20:47

Antea wrote:So, I am also putting also the flag of Karelian, because I obviously don't know anymore what I am studying. I am still following Assimil "Le finnois sans peine", but all the videos I see on Youtube are in Karelian, because it's the only thing I can find similar to Finnish (because there are no videos in Finnish,; I don't know why :para: ). I am also subscribed to some Russian sites focused on learning Karelian vocabulary.

To me, "I obviously don't know anymore what I am studying" sounds very much like colloquial spoken English. The standard placement for "anymore" is at the end: I obviously don't know what I am studying anymore.

Antea wrote:I have gone back to reviewing Russian. After a year of intensively studying Arabic, I find that I still can understand Russian quite well.....but that I can only answer in Arabic.... :hmm: It's really a problem. When I want to say something, only arabic words come to my mind. And I don't know how to solve this without losing Arabic :roll:

The same goes as above for "it's really a problem". My instinct is to correct it to "it's a real problem", and I think that's the standard written phrasing. As for losing Arabic, perhaps you need to start practicing speaking in Russian alongside speaking in Arabic. You still can understand Russian, but because you've spent the past year or so speaking in Arabic, it's natural that your brain will first think of how to respond in Arabic. If you switch to only trying to speak in Russian, after a while your brain will get used to that. So instead, maybe try practicing both?

Antea wrote:Thank you a lot!

I'm not sure why, but we don't combine "thank you" with "a lot". At least, I've never heard it, and it sounds off to my ears. I don't see a grammatical reason why it doesn't work. But it's usually "thanks a lot" or "thank you very much". Maybe we don't combine them because the first one sounds more casual while the second one sounds more polite/formal?
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby księżycowy » 2018-03-03, 23:05

It amused me when I started having that problem between Irish and Japanese. I would be thinking in Japanese when I wanted to be thinking in Irish.

But because of my thesis, I've slacked off my language studies (too much, if you ask me.....), so it kinda fixed itself.

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby linguoboy » 2018-03-04, 15:56

dEhiN wrote:To me, "I obviously don't know anymore what I am studying" sounds very much like colloquial spoken English.

Isn't that the goal?

dEhiN wrote:The same goes as above for "it's really a problem". My instinct is to correct it to "it's a real problem", and I think that's the standard written phrasing.

I've said before I think you have a tendency to overcorrect. There's nothing amiss with "really a problem".

dEhiN wrote:
Antea wrote:Thank you a lot!

I'm not sure why, but we don't combine "thank you" with "a lot". At least, I've never heard it, and it sounds off to my ears. I don't see a grammatical reason why it doesn't work. But it's usually "thanks a lot" or "thank you very much". Maybe we don't combine them because the first one sounds more casual while the second one sounds more polite/formal?

Now that seems reasonable. Cf. "Thank you a tonne!", "Thank you a million!", "Thank you a bunch!" etc. Those all sound a bit off.
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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-03-06, 4:23

I think of it kind of like this:

Thanks a ton! = ?A ton of thanks!
Thanks a million! = A million thanks!
Thanks a lot! = Many thanks! (and maybe "A lot of thanks!" though this has the same problem for me as "a ton of thanks!" i.e. I never use either of those and have never really seen either one used).

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Re: TAC 2018 - Antea (Finnish, Swedish)

Postby dEhiN » 2018-03-07, 5:45

linguoboy wrote:
dEhiN wrote:The same goes as above for "it's really a problem". My instinct is to correct it to "it's a real problem", and I think that's the standard written phrasing.

I've said before I think you have a tendency to overcorrect. There's nothing amiss with "really a problem".

You're right, I do have a tendency to overcorrect. I've hopefully gotten better over the years, but it's the teacher/tutor in me: I either let it all slide, including real mistakes, because I don't tap into the teacher side of me, or I tap in and then start correcting every little thing!
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