Saim's log 2017-2018

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-10-07, 22:17

I'm pretty sure I used to do that when I was younger, or tried to at least. (Sometimes I also combined different languages in the same text, and these would occasionally include minority languages in some country where the language was spoken). Now I guess I just use UniLang for that sort of thing. :P
voron wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:JEALOUS! :doggy:

You know that at some point I was actually actively learning Polish, right?

Nope, didn't know until now.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-20, 18:58

I gave up on Arabic sentence cards for a while because the sentences in bab.la and glosbe were just too difficult, but I've found context.reverso to be quite good. I also use this site for Hebrew sentences.

Speaking of Hebrew, I've found the website pealim.com, which makes it much easier to know I'm pronouncing verb conjugations and plural forms right (I record all my sentence cards so it's good not to be repeating the wrong forms...). It's unfortunate I hadn't found this sooner: forvo is alright for this but it's not good for homographs and it doesn't have many conjugated forms available.

For Turkish, if I suspect a word is of foreign origin, I'll look it up in the nişanyan sözlük. If the origin is Arabic, I'll add the Arabic word to my cards as well, in either word or sentence form.

I've decided to start using lingq's built-in flaschard system for Slovak. I feel like just reading and listening isn't enough, but I also can't be bothered making Anki cards for it for whatever reason...

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-21, 11:21

My Mandarin cards seem to be working pretty well. Although I had to skip a couple of weeks due to uni stuff, I can recall the sentences I already had in the deck pretty well, characters and tones included! I think I'm going to start doing screencaps for both the characters and pinyin rather than typing them out: it just takes too long to do for very little extra benefit (like it more than doubles the amount of effort it takes to make cards). I thought typing them out might help with recall but honestly just seeing them again and again with the audio seems to do the trick.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-22, 12:32

Saim wrote:I think I'm going to start doing screencaps for both the characters and pinyin rather than typing them out: it just takes too long to do for very little extra benefit (like it more than doubles the amount of effort it takes to make cards).


I've found that I actually enjoy typing out the sentences but only after I've made a batch of cards. It's mutch less frustrating to type the sentences out when you can check it directly against the sreencap rather than switching windows.

I've also figured out how to deal with my font problem: instead of changing the font in the styling section, I add these tags to the card sections:

<div style='text-align: centre; font-family: DengXian Regular; font-size: 20px; color: #00F'>{{Front}}</span>
<div style='text-align: center; font-family: Arial; font-size: 20px; color: black'>{{Back}}</span>


Image

On the front side there is audio exported from Audacity.

It seems Wiktionary has lots of example sentences for its Chinese entries, so I should be able to keep making sentence cards once I've gone through Assimil and have the tones down.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-23, 15:03

Mandarin

I've decided to supplement my Assimil studies with words written with character compounds. I'll try and find words/expressions that use the same character in different combinations. Here are the words I have so far:

富二代 nouveau riche
一代 generation
富户 rich family
户外 outside
代价 cost

Note how 代 shows up in three different expressions, 富 in two and 户 in two.

I've added audio to them from forvo. Where forvo doesn't have it I use Google text-to-speech (better than nothing).

This is fun. Characters aren't even that hard, the only problem is that there's just a lot of them. :lol:

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-29, 8:40

Ukrainian, Russian

I got TV installed and got the cheapest package without really looking very closely at what channels are available. I thought I would get Deutsch Welle, but actually it's some "DW" which is in English (why would I watch Deutsch Welle in English, what's the point?) as well as Euronews only being in English. Had I got the more expensive package I would've gotten the multilingual version of Euronews, as well as Spanish public TV and one Russian channel. Kind of disappointing, but at least I have 112 Україна, which is in a mix of Ukrainian and Russian, which actually makes it more interesting to watch. I've noticed I can spend a lot more time watching this channel than anything on the internet so hopefully this will be the missing ingredient that helps me push my Ukrainian and Russian to the next level. It's probably for the best that I don't have any other non-Polish or non-English channels so that 112 Україна is my go-to channel when I want to watch something not in Polish, thus maximising my East Slavic input, rather than spreading myself thin along many languages.

The only thing that's annoying about this TV is that the number of channels I don't have are like 3/4 of the total and there doesn't seem to be any way to remove the ones I don't have access to. But honestly the full package isn't worth it because even this package has too many channels (so far I've only watched 112 Україна and a couple of the Polish news channels, so like three or four in total, and 90% of it has been 112 Україна).

Asturian, French

I looked at some old comments I wrote in Asturian from a couple of years ago and I find them pretty easy to correct now. I've also come to the point where writing comments in French isn't difficult anymore even though I'm sure I still make mistakes, although I've managed to correct lots of them (adding in diacritics, correct preposition use, correct negation patterns) after giving them a second look a few minutes after posting them. There was a time where I felt like my active knowledge of all my Romance languages besides Catalan and Spanish was stagnating but now I feel like I've made a further breakthrough so I'm quite happy. All in all playing the long game seems to be paying off.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-29, 19:35

Besides Spanish, Catalan, French and Asturian, what other Romance languages do you know to a relatively good degree? Also, do you know of any good (or at least decent) online resources for learning Asturian, Occitan and Catalan? I'm thinking of starting either Asturian, Occitan or Catalan, or a mix of 2 or all 3.
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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-29, 19:57

dEhiN wrote:Besides Spanish, Catalan, French and Asturian, what other Romance languages do you know to a relatively good degree?


I'd say I have a fair bit of practice writing Galician and Occitan as well. My Portuguese and Italian are definitely rustier.

Also, do you know of any good (or at least decent) online resources for learning Asturian, Occitan and Catalan? I'm thinking of starting either Asturian, Occitan or Catalan, or a mix of 2 or all 3.


Yes. For the two small ones they're all Spanish-base or Asturian-base (for Asturian), French-base or Catalan-base (Occitan). Catalan has quite a bit more going for it (although the Duolingo course for example is also Spanish-base).

For Asturian you kind of need to go through Spanish or jump straight into Asturian materials:
http://eslema.uniovi.es/comun/traductor.php (Spanish-Asturian and Asturian-Spanish translator)
http://eslema.uniovi.es/comun/conxugador.php?verbo= (Asturian verb conjugator)
http://asturies.com/espaciuytiempu/deprendeasturianu (Asturian grammar in Asturian)
http://academiadelallingua.com/dicciona ... ?pallabra= (Asturian-Asturian dictionary, you have to type the word directly into the URL or it gives you a 403 error)

Catalan:
Duolingo (Spanish base)
Teach Yourself Catalan (English base)
Colloquial Catalan (English base)
Le catalan sans peine/el catalán sin esfuerzo (French or Spanish base)
parla.cat (Catalan course in Catalan)
http://www.catalandictionary.org/en/search/ (Catalan-English dictionary)
https://dlc.iec.cat (Catalan-Catalan dictionary)
https://www.softcatala.org/traductor/ (Catalan-Spanish-English translator)

Occitan:
http://traductor.gencat.cat/ (Occitan - Catalan - Spanish translator; Aranese and Lengadocian)
https://www.locongres.org/ (Occitan-Occitan, Occitan-French and French-Occitan dictionary; all dialects)
Verbix, wiktionary and Wikipedia have verb conjugations
L'occitan sans peine (French base)
Parli occitan (Occitan course in Occitan)

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby dEhiN » 2018-10-29, 20:36

Thanks! I will probably need to hold off on Asturian then because my Spanish is definitely not up to snuff. I could go through the sans peine books for Catalan and Occitan (as well as obviously the English resources for Catalan).

Have you ever used a resource in the language, especially when you're starting out in that language? I've never done that because I always figured it would be too difficult and those type of resources are meant for native speakers who need to study their own language (e.g, children).

Also, while I'm asking you about resources and such, how would you recommend I improve my Spanish? I imagine my level is somewhere between A1 and A2. It used to be A2, but up until recently I wasn't that actively working on it (apart from doing my Anki deck). I still probably have about an A2 level of vocabulary, at least passively in terms of written recognition (i.e., reading). Active writing is a different story - I can still create basic sentences without looking things up, but elementary type sentences require a dictionary or verb conjugator. Listening and speaking are pretty low; it takes me some time to string together even basic sentences that I could write in no time, and I freeze up when anyone speaks (back) to me in Spanish. My biggest problem I think is that I don't know by heart any verb TAM conjugation except for the present tense.

I was thinking of picking a resource and working through it. I have two Teach Yourself books for Spanish - an older version of Complete Latin American Spanish, and a newer version of Get Started in Spanish (i.e., Castilian). I have always focused more on Latin American Spanish, but lately I've actually been thinking of focusing on Castilian, even though that would require me to adjust my pronunciation as well as vocabulary. What do you think?
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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Car » 2018-10-29, 21:20

I did el catalán sin esfuerzo several years ago, but my Spanish wasn't good enough, actually. I was above A2, but the progression of the course is very, very steep.
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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby ceid donn » 2018-10-29, 22:05

I haven't looked at any of the Spanish-language Assimil books, but I imagine you have to be pretty decent at reading about grammar in Spanish. I'm good at reading general media Spanish but grammar descriptions are still a bit of a headache for me.

I have both Occitan (pdf of an old version) and Breton Assimil books--I haven't seen the Catalan one. I've gotten further in the Breton one, so I have a feel of how difficult the text is in French. I don't know how complicated the explanations of Occitan grammar get further into that course, but with Breton the explanations can get a bit obtusely technical and can be challenging to read if your French isn't great. I imagine it's the same with any Spanish versions of Assimil books.

The Duolingo course for Catalan is relatively easy and less demanding of your Spanish comprehension, but you will need to be able to remember the Spanish answer correctly as Duolingo is fussy and exacting when it comes to what it regards as a correct answer.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-10-29, 22:25

dEhiN wrote:Have you ever used a resource in the language, especially when you're starting out in that language? I've never done that because I always figured it would be too difficult and those type of resources are meant for native speakers who need to study their own language (e.g, children).


Yes. When you're rather advanced in a language that is somewhat mutually intelligible with it, using target-language reasources can be a good way to increase input if they're comprehensible, so I do this for Slavic and Romance all the time. For less related languages you can still do it but it can be a bit frustrating to hit the dictionary so much, so it's not something I'd necessarily recommend or even would do often without a tutor, although it can teach you a lot if you don't find it too boring/frustrating.

Also, while I'm asking you about resources and such, how would you recommend I improve my Spanish? I imagine my level is somewhere between A1 and A2. It used to be A2, but up until recently I wasn't that actively working on it (apart from doing my Anki deck). I still probably have about an A2 level of vocabulary, at least passively in terms of written recognition (i.e., reading). Active writing is a different story - I can still create basic sentences without looking things up, but elementary type sentences require a dictionary or verb conjugator. Listening and speaking are pretty low; it takes me some time to string together even basic sentences that I could write in no time, and I freeze up when anyone speaks (back) to me in Spanish. My biggest problem I think is that I don't know by heart any verb TAM conjugation except for the present tense.


Personally one of the things that has helped me get better at conjugating Romance verbs is writing a fair bit and always checking verb tables (rather than expecting other people to correct me afterwards I would make sure I'm checking to see if the verb forms are correct) -- it's a bit of a hassle but it works fairly well in my experience. Other than that I think around the A levels getting more input may be a bigger piority (just look up words while listening and reading). Since you're a native English speaker with some experience with Romance languages using too much purely didactic materials could just be a crutch, I'd recommend spending more times with songs, internet posts, etc. At least that's how I learned most of my languages (besides speaking them in person).

I have always focused more on Latin American Spanish, but lately I've actually been thinking of focusing on Castilian, even though that would require me to adjust my pronunciation as well as vocabulary. What do you think?


I think there's no need to make a definitive choice, learn whatever words you come across and try and imitate the pronunciation of material you enjoy. If at some point you have a solid reason to specifically adopt a major variety of Spanish, you'll always be able to adapt to that variety once you find that reason.

dEhiN wrote:I could go through the sans peine books for Catalan and Occitan (as well as obviously the English resources for Catalan).


I think if your goal is to widen your understanding of Romance you can't really go wrong with Catalan. It's in a rather central place in the language area so it's fairly close to several major members of the family as well as to many of the more minor ones. It also has quite a lot of interesting media production (including free access to public TV on the internet: http://tv3.cat), and a big presence on Twitter and Wikipedia.

Occitan is extremely close to Catalan, and some of the main differences are things Occitan shares with French (and to a lesser extent Italian), so I think if you don't have a specific preference due to the availability of materials and media working on Catalan and then eventually using it as a gateway into Occitan is going to be much easier than the other way around. :)

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-11-04, 8:36

Mandarin

I've decided that instead of focusing on compounds specifically if I find random bits of Mandarin on the internet that aren't too complicated I will add them to Anki and try and find more example sentences to associate it with other vocabulary. I'll use Google Translate for the audio.

For example on Facebook I saw a video with the caption:

我遇上了奇景!I have come across a wonder/rare ocurrence.

Looking up these works on Wiktionary I found the following example sentences, which I also added to Anki with GT-produced audio:

笔在桌上。The pen is on the desk.
请上车。Please get into the car.
请等待。Please wait.
我們必須等待。We must wait.

Arabic

I've come across this feminism test which has been translated into a couple of languages: https://www.idrlabs.com/eg/feminism/test.php. One of these languages is Arabic, so I'll try and go through it as a bilingual text. It's a topic I'm interested in so it won't get too boring working on such difficult sentences.

Unfortunately the test questions are in a random order every time, so you can't just go through and immediately compare them, so I went through the English version and copied all the questions into a spreadsheet. I'll then use that to slowly add the Arabic questions, as well as other example sentences with the same vocabulary (there are too many new words in these sentences for me to use them on their own as cards). It'll take a while but it's more interesting than any news article and has similar vocabulary that I'll probably find pretty useful.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-11-04, 14:21

I'm going to make a list of songs I want to study so that I don't forget, or so if I feel like doing a song I can just pick one from the list rather than wasting time trying to choose one.

German

Cro - Noch da, Bad Chick
Miami yacine - Cocaina
Sookee - Vorläufiger Abschiedsbrief, Queere Tiere
GZUZ - Warum, 32 bars
Olexesh - Magisch
Eunique - Lila, Wer ist so nice, Auf ewig (1/3)
Schwesta Ewa - Schwesta Schwesta, Tabledance
SXTN - Bongzimmer, Ausziehen
Azet - Koka (1/3), Fast life, Überlebt, Gjynnah, Meister Yoda, Nike Pullover, Vallah, Ja Ja

Portuguese

Kmila CDD - Ciranda da vida, A faca
Bocaum, outros - Primavera fascista (2/7)
MC Carol e Karol Conka - 100% feminista
Pablo Vittar - Então vai
Holly Hood - Fácil
Anitta, outros - Vai malandra

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-11-06, 12:00

Italian, French, Portuguese

Arguing with people in Facebook groups is doing wonders for my written production. It's certainly more fun than writing stupid essays about what I did during the summer or what my favourite meal is.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Car » 2018-11-06, 13:10

Which Facebook groups are you a member of, if I may ask?
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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-11-06, 16:39

Car wrote:Which Facebook groups are you a member of, if I may ask?


I'll send you a PM.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby dEhiN » 2018-11-06, 17:32

Saim wrote:Italian, French, Portuguese

Arguing with people in Facebook groups is doing wonders for my written production. It's certainly more fun than writing stupid essays about what I did during the summer or what my favourite meal is.

Les gens, ils te corrigeaient?
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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby Saim » 2018-11-06, 18:12

dEhiN wrote:Les gens, ils te corrigeaient?


Non, malheureusement pas. Je suppose que c'est pour le contexte social: dans la vie réelle il y a bien peu des locuteurs natifs que prendraient le temps de te corriger (j'ai des amis qui le font mais ils s'intéressent pour les langues et ils savent déjà que j'aime qu'on me corrige). De plus, la correction implique un effort certain que tout le monde ne veut pas forcément faire. J'ai vu que même dans les forums dans lesquels il y a la possibilité de mettre une signature avec le message "je suis étranger, corrigez les fautes s'il vous plaît!", les gens ne prennent pas le temps de corriger. Je suppose que c'est normale: c'est plutôt la norme dans les forums spécifiquement didactiques com celui-ci.

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Re: Saim's log 2017-2018

Postby dEhiN » 2018-11-06, 20:29

Saim wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Les gens, ils te corrigeaient?


Non, malheureusement pas. Je suppose que c'est pour le contexte social: dans la vie réelle il y a bien peu des locuteurs natifs que prendraient le temps de te corriger (j'ai des amis qui le font mais ils s'intéressent pour les langues et ils savent déjà que j'aime qu'on me corrige). De plus, la correction implique un effort certain que tout le monde ne veut pas forcément faire. J'ai vu que même dans les forums dans lesquels il y a la possibilité de mettre une signature avec le message "je suis étranger, corrigez les fautes s'il vous plaît!", les gens ne prennent pas le temps de corriger. Je suppose que c'est normale: c'est plutôt la norme dans les forums spécifiquement didactiques com celui-ci.

Ça a du sens. Mais, j'ai deux corrections pour toi : c'est comme et pas com, et je pense que tu as besoin d'écrire « des locuteurs natifs qui prendraient » et pas « que prendraient ». Ou peut-être, pour la dernière correction, on peut utiliser « que », mais pour moi, il me sonne plus naturel à dire qui.
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